atf bust in nashville this week

[taliv]

sorry if this has been posted before, but i searched and couldn't find it, which surprised me since so many Tennesseans are on this board.

link

MT. JULIET

Local and federal law enforcement officials arrested a Mt. Juliet man Tuesday after confiscating at his house 20 guns, a marijuana-growing operation, components of a methamphetamine lab and a potentially hazardous substance that couldn't be identified, they said.

J.E. Duncan, 53, of Paradise Drive was charged with two counts of possession of an explosive weapon, two counts of possession of a prohibited weapon, one count of marijuana manufacturing, one count of criminal attempt to manufacture methamphetamine and one count of felony possession of drug paraphernalia.


Duncan was held briefly at the Wilson County Jail before being released on a $16,500 bond. City police, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the 15th Judicial Drug Task Force and the Tennessee Highway Patrol's bomb squad executed a search warrant at Duncan's house about 3:30 p.m. Tuesday. Part of his neighborhood was cordoned off Tuesday night and police said they took material out of his house.

Authorities said they were tipped off by a report that suspicious photographs of possibly explosive materials and items such as a rocket-propelled grenade launcher had been dropped off for processing.

Sgt. Edward Cherry, commander of the THP bomb squad, said his unit disposed of a small amount of chemicals they believed to be nitric and sulfuric acid using an explosive charge.

"We suspect that he was using potassium chlorate to mix his own flash powder, which is another name for gunpowder," Cherry said.

— NATALIA MIELCZAREK AND IAN KRIEGISH

i don't watch the news, but i heard some friends talking about seeing this guy on the news a couple times over the past two days giving the ATF and metro down the road. He (a USMC vet) claims (again, this is 3rd hand knowledge) that the rocket launcher was a model he made from PVC and not functional or ever intended to be a weapon.

Did anybody see him on TV?

also, "small amounts of nitric and sulfuric acid" are basic chemistry set kind of things that aren't hard to come by or dispose of. Why in the world would the BOMB SQUAD use an explosive charge to dispose of them? wouldn't that just scatter them around???

This has Fahreinheit 451 written all over it. Bomb Squads come to your house to blow up common chemicals rather than dispose of bombs?

"We suspect that he was using potassium chlorate to mix his own flash powder, which is another name for gunpowder," Cherry said

yeah? let us know when he does something ILLEGAL.

confiscating at his house 20 guns, a marijuana-growing operation, components of a methamphetamine lab and a potentially hazardous substance that couldn't be identified, they said.

20 guns?? OMG!
"marijuana-growing operation" sounds suspiciously like grow-lights with no actual weed present.
90% of people have the components of a meth lab in their house.
wouldn't ANY unknown substance be potentially hazardous? why confiscate it?


It seems to be that the solution to the ATF and LEO's tarnished images is simple: A photocopy of the search warrant should accompany every news story.

 

[NukemJim]

flash powder, which is another name for gunpowder

Wrong.

I can sorta kinda understand the writers falling for the BS but why oh why do these idiots feel the need to spout such garbage ? I truly do not understand.

NukemJim

 

[Third_Rail]

So.... all they have is that he was growing MJ? Nothing else they've mentioned is illegal, near as I can tell.


WHY is the BATFE involved in the DEA's jurisdictions?

 

[DMF]

So.... all they have is that he was growing MJ? Nothing else they've mentioned is illegal, near as I can tell.


WHY is the BATFE involved in the DEA's jurisdictions?

You must have missed these two items, " . . . charged with two counts of possession of an explosive weapon, two counts of possession of a prohibited weapon . . ." That sounds like some things that are definitely in ATF's jurisdiction.

 

[aryfrosty]

bust in Nashville

You know if you tickle a rattlesnake you'll probably be nailed. If this podunk moron was growing marijuana...and nothing about the phrase "growing operation" says ANYTHING about grow lights and no pot...you might reasonably expect to attract attention. Looks to me as if this idiot was sorta running up to the lion's cage yelling, "bite me". Don't know about his guns. Don't know about his "flash powder". PVC rocket launcher "not meant to be used" and marijuana growing operation tells me all I personally want to know. Lock his dumb butt up and get him OFF the streets.
People like us need to recognize that idiots like this one are costing us freedoms every time they open their stupid mouths. I see no reason to stand up for a moron like this guy and I refuse to let anyone as stupid as he is stand up for anything I have.

 

[Third_Rail]

I don't see what he did that injured you, your property, or anyone else's. Why should what he allegedly did be illegal, anyway?


If anything, his actions stood up for your freedoms that you now speak out against.

 

[aryfrosty]

Busted

If you don't see, I can't show you. I stand, however, by what I said about that guy being too stupid to breathe good air. I don't need...I don't want...and I won't tolerate anything someone like that does and says that "defends my freedoms".
What did he do to injure me?
He exists... in a world where people aren't bound by decency or restraint. His actions injure me. They make unenlightened people look at gun nuts like I am and say, "they're all like that". These danged liberals will never defeat us. They don't have to as long as we have folks like that guy in our camp. By turning the other cheek and saying, "Ain't none of my bid'ness", we encourage trash like him.
He has no right to be free to promote his agenda. He has no right to grow, sell or use pot.
I lost a cherished son to drugs, starting with grass, and he began by getting it free from "freedom-loving" nimrods like this guy you want to stand up for. Now my child is serving life without parole in Tennessee. I am sorry you can't see the danger in these people. That's your business. I don't care to try to change you, but no matter who I see pushing any kind of dope I promise I will rat them out in a New York second. And I hope they don't like it. I realize what I have said may hurt your feelings. I sincerely apologize for that. I try hard to keep from saying things which are crude or offensive. But I do NOT tolerate illegal drugs, their sale or use in any way. And they're one brush that paints your whole life and that of all of your family if you accomodate them.

 

[Third_Rail]

I can see that you are quite set in that viewpoint; we must agree to disagree.

 

[Baba Louie]

So when the federal gov't makes (some) gun ownership illegal, like they did marijuana back in the 20's/30's and they make ownership of sharp, pointy knives illegal, like they did beer back in 1919, and when they prohibit tobacco products, or use thereof, the world, or at least the USA, will be a better place and anyone caught using any of those now-illegal objects will be sent to prison and villified by all good law-abiding citizens as terrorists or hooligans or maybe just neuvo criminals to be ratted out by their neighborhood photo-lab, children or disgruntled ex-spouse.

Freedom?

Liberty?

Incarceration.

It's for your own good.

And don't you forget it.

Like my dear old departed Daddy useta say, "Ride wid da law little Baba Louie, not agin' it. It can jump up and bite you on de butt."

If one is going to dally with things illegal, one should not be taking photos for potential public dissemination, neh?

Doh! Darwin strikes again.

 

[taliv]

again, i heard this all 3rd hand, so i don't claim to know any facts about what's actually going on here...

but it seems that taking pictures of a pvc model you made of a rocket launcher is appreciably shy of dalying with things illegal.


it sounds to me, again, like what happened is some photomart clerk called the police because his model looked realistic. they got a warrant which probably only lists the rocket launcher.

when they discovered the rocket launcher was in fact a piece of pvc and some spray paint, they decided to save face by raiding his medicine cabinet and his 20 guns.


it sounds like the only stupid thing he did was using film instead of a digital camera.

 

[Phetro]

Local and federal law enforcement officials arrested a Mt. Juliet man Tuesday after confiscating at his house 20 guns,

(Probably legally owned)

a marijuana-growing operation,

(one plant)

components of a methamphetamine lab

(an empty glass jar and a food scale)

and a potentially hazardous substance that couldn't be identified,

(Agent 1: "What's this?"

Agent 2: "Probably table salt, seeing as it was in the salt shaker--whatever it is, let's just call it 'potentially hazardous' and book him for it!")

they said.

Does anyone in America really believe what Big Brother and Big Media tell them to believe? Yes. Depressing, but awfully funny...

 

[Phetro]

People like us need to recognize that idiots like this one are costing us freedoms every time they open their stupid mouths. I see no reason to stand up for a moron like this guy and I refuse to let anyone as stupid as he is stand up for anything I have.

Correction: people like YOU need to recognize that people like you are costing us freedoms every time you open your mouths and advocate unconstitutional laws, and the enforcement of the same, by agencies that shouldn't exist in the first place.

READ THE CONSTITUTION, SIR. Please.

 

[espanola]

Taliv, there is some conflicting info on this. The info I have comes from news broadcasts on WSMV channel 4 in Nashville.

The report said Mr. Duncan had some photos processed of some items that concerned the photo tech and the photo tech called police.
Mr. Duncan called his homemade items "his toys" and said they were just things he'd homemade as part of a hobby and were non-functioning. The THP say they were functional.
I know the pictures of the items they showed looked like an RPG launcher and an RPG. There were even some electrical wires visible on the launcher. For the brief time they showed the items on the news broadcast it looked very realistic...

Maybe more will come out soon.

 

[buzz_knox]

Here's a fun excercise for us all. Take a list of components used in drug manufacture, or items which constitute drug paraphenalia. Take said list and start marking off items in your home that are on the list. Stop when you have most of the list checked off and you are sweating a knock on the door, despite having never used illicit drugs in your life.

 

[hso]

The ATF field agents often run with the drug guys because large quantities of firearms are often found with meth busts (this from the mouth of an ATF field agent who was investigating a fire at a project I was on).

As to the equipment and components mentioned in the article, nothing that can't be explained by a fireworks hobbyist or by a bomb maker. The problem is that many of the same chemicals are used in the manufacture of both. Any of you guys see the episode of Mythbusters where they made gun cotton with nitric in the attempt to build a rocket?

Pot production? Well it depends upon what that equipment actually was and no one's come up with any details.

It's idiotic and premature to condemn or support this guy since there's not enough information in the article for anyone except a psychic to make sense of.

 

[buzz_knox]

It's idiotic and premature to condemn or support this guy since there's not enough information in the article for anyone except a psychic to make sense of.

True enough. But it is an interesting excercise in the demonstration of prejudices and personal bias.

 

[Third_Rail]

buzz_knox, hso, you guys are right on.

I can list literally DOZENS of primary and secondary high explosives that I can make with just chemicals in my home - nevermind what's down at CVS and HomeDepot. Of course, each and every one of these chemicals has a normal place in the home, from acetone and hydrogen peroxide, to muriatic acid and solid fuel tablets (for camping). Not to mention that I also dabbled in fireworks a while back, so I have all of those chemicals too.

As to the "MJ growing operation", I suppose I could get busted for that, too. I only grow flowers and such indoors, which is why I have the grow lights, but the exact same setup could be used to grow MJ and other illicits.


My wife and I played a fun game last night - count how many things around the house could be federal felonies, if I were to be already "bad" in the eyes of the law. We counted 11 in about five minutes. At that point, we weren't sure whether to laugh or cry, but we've both lost faith in the gov't saying what is good, what is bad.


Do note that I would never break any law, nor manufacture anything illegal, nor commit any crime. I am an upstanding citizen, if a worried one.

 

[v8fbird]

"I lost a cherished son to drugs, starting with grass, and he began by getting it free from "freedom-loving" nimrods like this guy you want to stand up for. Now my child is serving life without parole in Tennessee."

If you had lost him to a crazed gunman, would you be on here arguing against our 2nd amendment rights?

"That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant."

Just because your son made the wrong decisions does not mean that other individuals should not have the same opportunities to make the same decisions. In fact, any semblance of a free society dictates it.

 

[aryfrosty]

atf bust

There is no reasonable justification for using illegal drugs. It is reprehensible to choose a case to have as a cause celebre because the man had guns. In the analogy of one gentleman I could cause myself to hate cars since a relative died in one. Or we could lobby against airplanes because one crashed and people died in it. In the Bible we can read that we are all admonished to obey laws set by those above us. We also see that the Bible refers to two kinds of law...The letter of the law which brings death, or the spirit of the law which gives life. If any among us wish to wage war against police or established law we had better make good friends with the burglars, robbers and rapists...Oh, and don't forget dope dealers.... then we need to work within the structure to get legislators in office who agree with our feelings. The statement above about the spirit of the law was variously use by both Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. Owing guns is a right guarnteed by the Bill of Rights. It's worth every fight we enter to preserve it.
NOWHERE in the United States Constitution or the Bill of Rights is found the "right" or the privilige or otherwise to smoke dope or use or deal in any other illegal drugs. Nowhere! You guys who believe people have a "right granted by God to disobey the laws" are perverting the spirit of the law to suit your personal agenda.
For the gentleman who pointed out to me that because my child made a bad decision let me add this. He made it while under the influence of illegal drugs. He started with pot and progressed upward from there.
Indulge me further please: You accused me of being in error when I judged the dope dealer/smoker...remember that? Yet when I posted a note saying that my son was in prison you made the illogical leap from there to, "he made a bad decision." Yet you don't know what he did...whether it was a bad choice or a lifestyle. What reason do you have for deciding that and denying me the privilege of doing the same?
What will you all do when the moron who was growing pot is tried by a group of his peers and is found guilty? Will you continue to support him simply because he liked guns? Again I neither want nor need his support. I would not accept his support. He has made his own lack of good sense well known and I don't want him within a city block of me at any time.
Regards to all of you,

 

[v8fbird]

"There is no reasonable justification for using illegal drugs."

Tell that to the man (can't remember his name) who is rotting in a California jail after having been EXTRADITED since having FLED to Canada JUST to be able to smoke pot to combat the pain brought on by his cancer. He's now in pain AND in jail.

"NOWHERE in the United States Constitution or the Bill of Rights is found the "right" or the privilige or otherwise to smoke dope or use or deal in any other illegal drugs."

That's your fundamental mistake in logic and theory. You see human rights as only those things guaranteed to us in the Constitution. You believe in only that freedom that was written on some stupid piece of paper. There is no logical basis for that position.

Nowhere does the Constitution say that the government DOES have the right to regulate drugs. And all powers not SPECIFICALLY granted to government was at least SUPPOSED to be reserved to the people and to the states.

"In the Bible we can read that we are all admonished to obey laws set by those above us."

You have GOT to be kidding me. Please provide me a passage for that. And don't give me the "give unto caesar" line. That statement is SIMPLY NOT TRUE.


"Indulge me further please: You accused me of being in error when I judged the dope dealer/smoker...remember that? Yet when I posted a note saying that my son was in prison you made the illogical leap from there to, "he made a bad decision." Yet you don't know what he did...whether it was a bad choice or a lifestyle. What reason do you have for deciding that and denying me the privilege of doing the same?"

I'm a pretty intelligent fella, but I have absolutely no clue what that means. Your son made a bad choice to do drugs. Are you arguing that? So far as I'm concerned, if his "crimes" didn't involve hurting anyone or infringing on their natural rights, he should be a free man.




Do you think that gambling, alcohol and prostitution should be illegal? How about homosexuality? Smoking? Eating too much? How about not sending your children to public schools and letting them play too many video games?

Anything you make illegal you have to enforce at the POINT OF A GUN.

Are you honestly ready to point that gun at ME and tell me I can't drink or smoke simply because your son made a bad choice at one point in his life?

 

[bruss01]

There is no reasonable justification for using illegal drugs.

Then comes the inevitable argument about why some drugs are legal (like coffee, tobacco and alcohol) and some aren't (like marijuana). What's the difference? I dunno, the only reason I can see is that the guys who wrote the law said so. Just words on paper, nothing more.

Sorry you had a bad experience regarding your son. I'm truly saddened to hear of your heartache. You could blame "drugs" but is that where the problem really lies? Is it the weapon or the thug wielding it that is dangerous? People make choices, not all of them turn out well. Such is life.

Look at how many lives have been ruined by health consequences from tobacco, or from alcohol, and they're still legal. Why? I dunno, but I think a lot of people would be upset if they were suddenly declared verbotten. Didn't that happen once - I think it was called Prohibition? It didn't work out too well because people still drank and it made the criminals rich. We're doing the same thing with your so-called "illegal drugs". People still take them, and it makes the criminals rich.

Personally, I have no use for drugs aside from my morning coffee and an occasional 12 year old single malt scotch, but others feel differently. And if all we're doing is putting harmless people in jail and creating a huge rights and privacy-devouring juggernaut in a false attempt to put a lid on it, then we're deciving ourselves if we think it's ultimately doing more good than harm.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

?

pursuit of happiness ring a bell? didn't jefferson grow hemp?

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

If the commander of the BOMB SQUAD doesn't even know the difference between gunpowder and flash powder then all the reloaders in that county are in a heap of trouble. Try loading a round with flash powder and see what happens. I'll just stand behind this brick wall over here while you fire...
If the guy was growing pot and making meth then I'm glad he got busted (although the article doesn't state any of either substance was recovered and components of those "operations" or "labs" do have other legit uses. Usually they state XX number of plants and XX grams of meth were seized, etc).

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Drug law

Drug law is similar to gun law in that it was first based on fear, predjudice and a sensational media to gain popular approval.

Gun law was sold on the premise it would keep guns out of the hands of freed slaves. The first opium prohibition in the country was to keep opium from Chinese in San Francisco because they might take advantage of white woman who then might use opium. Marijuana laws were founded on fears that Mexicans would take advantage of white women under the influence... Can we all say "Reefer Madness"?

Prior to 1900 it was generally accepted that a person had the right to injest, inject or whatever anything he desired. They then used a tax strategy to make it "illegal" and the 1934 NFA act was just another itteration of the same.

 

[Euclidean]

Personally, even if this man is guilty of everything they accuse him of and they can prove it, I still see very little I would send him to prison for were I on the jury. Has he stolen anything or hurt anybody?

I'm not sympathetic to people who ruin their lives with substance abuse, but that's just it: this man is not a sympathetic figure. My first honest to God thought was "He sounds like scum", implying I'm better than him somehow based on what I read.

What a terrible attitude to have. I think this stinks like a fish and is a potential example of the ATF's many abuses.