Batons... Carry on Postal Service property?

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Mauser lover

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I'm not a baton guy. I don't have one (yet). Let's not go into tactics/training/talking me out of it/etc.

I would like to carry a baton on my bicycle for dogs, because I have been latched onto before.

I know they are legal in KY if you have a CCDW permit, but what about on Postal Service property? My Google search turned up nothing, so I just wanted to see if anyone had looked it up before.
 
I would like to carry a baton on my bicycle for dogs, because I have been latched onto before.
I know they are legal in KY if you have a CCDW permit, but what about on Postal Service property? My Google search turned up nothing, so I just wanted to see if anyone had looked it up before.
Tell them you're a cheerleader or in marching band? ;)
In all seriousness, I have scratched my head over the fact that as an online seller of firearms we often ship by USPS, they have an official government form we fill out and hand in, however it's not legal to carry the firearm on post office property. So how do I take it in and ship it. Do they just casually ignore that law and ship the guns? I guess so.
I mean, until we hand in the firearm with the filled out form, leaving out our intent is to ship it, what's the difference between what we do and some licensed person carrying in?
 
Actually thinking more of an extendable baton rather than the whole marching band thing. Although if the excuse might fly better, it might be worth a shot.
 
Tell them you're a cheerleader or in marching band? ;)
In all seriousness, I have scratched my head over the fact that as an online seller of firearms we often ship by USPS, they have an official government form we fill out and hand in, however it's not legal to carry the firearm on post office property. So how do I take it in and ship it. Do they just casually ignore that law and ship the guns? I guess so.
I mean, until we hand in the firearm with the filled out form, leaving out our intent is to ship it, what's the difference between what we do and some licensed person carrying in?
I think they would understand the difference between a firearm on your person, and an unloaded one in a sealed carton.

Having to comport yourself in a cheerleaders outfit might cause enough problems to warrant the use of the baton. lol
 
Won't the marching band scare the dogs away? Why would you need a baton with a marching band behind you? lol

When I was growing up my friends father would go running every morning at 5:00am or there abouts. He carried a golf club with him. Was never hassled.

Those extendable batons do look kind of cool though... do they make one with a stun gun on the extended portion? Or one with a flashlight built in? Or one that looks like a flashlight with an actual flashlight built in that extends out to knock someone in the nuts when needed?
 
Treat it like a courthouse. My mother was a postal worker for her entire adult life. She's said even a bb gun left in her car could get her fired. I wouldn't take any chance. Or you could just ask the clerk :D. Not that a government employee would know...
 
Won't the marching band scare the dogs away? Why would you need a baton with a marching band behind you? lol
When I was growing up my friends father would go running every morning at 5:00am or there abouts. He carried a golf club with him. Was never hassled.

Nowadays if you carry a golf club be sure to have some golf balls and tees in your pocket to explain to the police why you have a golf club along for the jog. If you have a Louisville Slugger in your car for protection, have a ball and glove along too.

Those extendable batons do look kind of cool though... do they make one with a stun gun on the extended portion? Or one with a flashlight built in? Or one that looks like a flashlight with an actual flashlight built in that extends out to knock someone in the nuts when needed?

I think Armament Systems and Procedures, Inc.first started making the telescoping batons, I think, so we always called them ASPs. Stun guns have flashlights built in, never saw one built into a telescoping baton, however. Maybe Maglight can make a custom 4' tactical flashlight for both light and nut knocking.
Stun guns that shoot the dartlike contacts out on wires are called tasers. In the early 1900's there was a Tom Swift, later Tom Swift Sr, father to the Tom Swift, Jr whose stories I grew up reading. Stories of dirigibles and biplanes vs space ships and nuclear submarines. Anyway, Tom Sr. went hunting elephants in Africa with his dirigible and his newly invented electric rifle. Hence Tom Swift's Electric Rifle (the actual name of the book) became TSER or taser. Happen to know because I have a copy of the book.
 
Won't the marching band scare the dogs away? Why would you need a baton with a marching band behind you? lol

Unfortunately, there is no marching band on the planet that can keep up with an in-practice cyclist. There may be one marching band that can keep up with me, but I don't know them. Later this year I'll be back in practice, so they won't be able to keep up either. Then at the end of winter they might be able to keep up again, but I still doubt it. ;)
 
From the USPS website:

Notwithstanding any other law, rule, or regulation, no person while on Postal Service property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on Postal Service property, except for official purposes.

Those last four words cover shipping items, I'd assume.

So, the question that this blurb leaves open is: Is a collapsible baton considered a "dangerous or deadly weapon." To find that out, you'd need to find out the Federal definition for the term.

From the Department of Justice website:

What constitutes a "deadly or dangerous weapon" is left to the general definition of that term as found in the law by the courts. See 107 Cong. Rec. 14366-67; H.R. Rep. No. 958, 87th Cong., 1st Sess. (1961), p. 15, reprinted in 1961 U.S.Code Cong. and Adm. News 2563, 2570. A "stun gun," as a matter of law, is a dangerous weapon. See United States v. Wallace, 800 F.2d 1509 (9th Cir. 1986), cert. denied, 481 U.S. 1019 (1987).

I'm not going to go dig up those cases, and IANAL, but there's also the common definition of the term referenced by NOLO, found on the Cornell Law School website:

Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary
Any object, such as a gun, knife, sword, crossbow, or slingshot, that is intrinsically capable of causing serious bodily harm to another person. The definition becomes important in cases where criminal laws attach particular consequences to crimes performed with a dangerous weapon. (See also: deadly weapon)

IANAL, but this seems pretty cut and dry. A collapsible baton is purpose-designed as a weapon. It's also capable of inflicting great bodily harm or death. Carry it on USPS property at your own risk.

You stated that you don't want anyone to talk you out of a baton, OP, so feel free to ignore this next part. It's as much for people wandering into the thread looking for the same information as you, as it is for you.

As far as using one on a dog, I see two issues:

1. You've got a baton that's maybe 21" if you get one of the larger variety, maybe 16" if you get a more compact one. If the dog's a serious enough threat to whack with it, you're in a hand to hand fight with an angry dog, and you're going to get bit. If you prevail, you just killed or injured someone's dog.
2. People get irate when they see their dog getting hurt by someone, regardless of it being their fault that the event is taking place. You might end up in baton on dummy combat with someone, which carries legal consequences, even if you're on the right side of things.

IMO, pepper spray is better in both cases. You can use it on the pooch, and if you have to calm down an irate owner, it's still useful without being lethal. It's probably a lot closer to being acceptable on USPS property, but you'd want to ask an actual lawyer about that one. And, yes, I know pepper spray isn't 100% effective, especially on people. But it's still got a very high success rate, especially versus animals.
 
As far as tactics go... This has happened, so don't laugh.

I was nearing the top of a relatively long/steep hill, so I was crawling. I saw the pooch coming from off the side of the road, but he was going significantly faster than I was. The dog latched onto my ankle, I freaked out, yanked my leg away from him and dismounted off the other side of the bike. Probably a mistake, but that's what I did. I kept the bike between me and the dog until the owner caught up. I'm already bit at this point, my thought is that I can easily reach my ankle with a 21 inch baton; and giving someone's rather large poochie a rap on the shoulder is a better option than shooting it. I already have pepper spray, my concern is that I may have used it all up and never hit the thing, or sprayed it without effect. I've still not convinced myself that this is a good idea, and I've not even gotten one yet! I wanted to check on legality of this before I did because much (if not most) of my riding is to and from the post office. I didn't want someone to try to talk me out of a baton because I wanted the thread to be appropriate for the legal forum; not because I refuse to be talked out of one.

As far as the post office goes... if a baton is illegal in Kentucky until you have a CCDW (that's Concealed Carry DEADLY Weapon) and the USPS says no deadly weapons regardless of permit, it would seem that the state law says a baton is a deadly weapon, and federal law says I can't have those on USPS property. I know a court might run differently than common sense, but this is what my common sense says.

Until it changes then, I think my best option is to find that marching band that can keep up with me! Or a very robust tire pump...
 
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The dog latched onto my ankle, I freaked out, yanked my leg away from him and dismounted off the other side of the bike. Probably a mistake, but that's what I did. I kept the bike between me and the dog until the owner caught up.
Sounds like good tactics to me. Use the bike to protect yourself. Not gonna outrun most dogs on an uphill.

Thinking outside the box here a bit. How bout attaching a 3/8 breaker bar somewhere on your bike? Something like this. https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-8-Inc...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B07GHRL16D Get a socket that fits the nuts on your rims. Just leave it on the bike when you go in the post office. Not expensive so it's no huge loss if somebody lifts it while you're not there.
 
Youch! That poor poochie! At least the batons are hollow! And I was thinking of getting a plastic one for weight savings anyway.

And... everything on the bike has the quick-release stuff. Seat, wheels, everything comes off without tools. If you know of a breaker bar with a 5mm Allen wrench on it, that might work, but that's the biggest tool I need.
 
There we go. I actually already have one of those in a Harrible Fright set somewhere. Problem solved.

I think we can call this thread finished, at least for the legal aspect!
 
Tell them you're a cheerleader or in marching band? ;)
In all seriousness, I have scratched my head over the fact that as an online seller of firearms we often ship by USPS, they have an official government form we fill out and hand in, however it's not legal to carry the firearm on post office property. So how do I take it in and ship it. Do they just casually ignore that law and ship the guns? I guess so.
I mean, until we hand in the firearm with the filled out form, leaving out our intent is to ship it, what's the difference between what we do and some licensed person carrying in?
Your gun is a shipment and is packaged (and unloaded of course, right?) so that is legal. It is the concealed loaded weapons that are prohibited
 
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