battle of the 308 AK's

the better 308 AK

  • VEPR

    Votes: 25 37.9%

  • SIAGA

    Votes: 41 62.1%
  • Total voters
    66
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S

s&w 24

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Dec 25, 2002
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625
I've been looking into 308 win chambered AK rifles and there's the siaga and the VEPR. What I would like is a 16" or 18" bbl ,scout scope, folding stock, rifle with 20 rnd mags on an AK platform.
I know I can put a ultimak scope base on a VEPR but ultimak is silent on the siaga so I wonder if I can or cannot use this system on a siaga ?
Also the siaga is available with 20 rnd mags but the VEPR already twice the price takes another $150 in gunsmithing to take hi-cap mags leading me to ask is the VEPR twice the rifle compared to a siaga ? Any other input on these weapons ?
 
I'm hugely interested in the same setup, so I'm curious to see what others have to say here. Sorry for a useless post!

I can't think of a piece more handy than that.

-Spooky
 
Okay, I've been looking into the Saiga myself. If I'm reading the Saiga forum ( www.forum.saiga-12.com ) correctly, you can use regular AK gas tubes on them. Some of the guys there have used the regular AK tubes to put an AK upper handguard on theirs. Now, using the ultimak tube would require either modifying the rifle to take an AK lower handguard or cutting the original handguard. I'm thinking it shouldn't be too hard for someone with a little experience with a dremel.

Lastly, the .308 Saiga trigger pull just plain sucks. I had one a couple of years ago (22", wooden stocked version) that I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with, mostly due to my inexperience with rifles and partly due to the lousy trigger. Since then, I've found the online community of gun owners and have come to regret selling it. I found that the original trigger may be replaced with an AK trigger as long as you do the pistol-grip conversion and make it 922r compliant.

You may have already done your research on that and if so, sorry for the long post. If not, check this site out: http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/ It details the pistol-grip conversion and how to make the rifle 922r compliant. It's for the .223 and 7.62X39 versions but as near as I can tell the .308 should actually be a little easier since it already has some of the holes you need cut into the receiver.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

Barrett
 
The VEPR definitely wins the "fit & finish" contest.

For some reason, it's EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get owners of either rifle to post accuracy results.

There are plenty of people who own these guns, but I've seen maybe two posts which give hard numbers on group sizes. Most owners make some passing statement about "minute-of-chest" or "typical battle rifle" accuracy but are too bashful to post real numbers. :cuss:
 
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=1454

That should cover the Saiga. F4d did have a picture there (not loading for me) of a 2" group at 200 yards. From what I understand, 2MOA is typical, some smaller some larger. The VEPR is generally considered a bit better. I'd give some personal input on my Saiga, but it's in a disassembled state atm and I haven't had a chance to fix it.

I think you're over estimating the price to convert a Saiga to PG config. All you need is a FCG ($35) and stock/pistol grip ($50). Get the VEPR is you want the best and don't mind getting a gunsmith to help you with installing new stocks (the receiver is slant cut). Get the Saiga if you're on a budget and want compatibility with stamped AK stocks. VEPRs are convertable to hicap if you get someone to mill the receiver, Saiga's are supposed to have factory hicaps when EAA gets around to it (backordered)... neither way is cheap.
 
I'd agree that 2MOA is a typical result for the Saiga .308 with good-quality ammo. I can hit 3MOA anyday with milsurp .308. I've got the 22" wood-stocked version, and am very happy with it so far. As for hi-caps, I agree that with a .308, they're not very likely to be needed, particularly since the standard 8-round mag can be converted to take 10 rounds by judiciously trimming the legs of the follower: but if hi-caps float your boat, EAA will be importing them.

Overall, I regard the Saiga .308 as the most affordable battle rifle in .308 available today: and it's good value for the money. The VEPR is probably superior in quality, but not to so great an extent that it's worth its highly inflated price - you can get two Saiga's for the price of one VEPR!
 
my 22" saiga 308 w/4-8x42 POSP put three portugese rounds into a 12"x20" water jug at five hundred yards. That is with the factory trigger and wood stock.

My vote goes to the saiga! I got an Uncle that is still kicking himself for selling the one he had to trade up to M1A's.
 
Kind of amusing to see the VEPR's price being called inflated. I mean, considering the price of other new semi-auto .308 rifles. The Saiga is an exceptional bargain--no question. I just don't think that automatically means that the VEPR's price is inflated...
 
JohnKSa said:
Kind of amusing to see the VEPR's price being called inflated. I mean, considering the price of other new semi-auto .308 rifles. The Saiga is an exceptional bargain--no question. I just don't think that automatically means that the VEPR's price is inflated...
Click to expand...


I see what you're saying. What people like me are emphasising is that the VEPR is essentially a glorified AK/RPK. I don't doubt the great fit and finish of the VEPR, I just have a hard time justifying $600 for an AK, especially when I can buy a quality Russian made .308 AK variant for less than $300. The Saiga can be had for $230 where I live. Even converted to pistol grip, the Saiga .308 is less than $400.

Essentially, with the VEPR, you're paying $200+ extra for nicer finish and maybe a slight improvement in accuracy. If that's worth the extra $200, be my guest. This is a consumer driven economy after all.
 
JohnKSa said:
Priced .308 AKs lately? (Besides the Saigas and the Veprs.)
Click to expand...


I admit that I'm not aware of too many .308 variants. There's a Romak version available, but they're very expensive (at least for my wallet). I'm not sure we can get the Tigr in the USA.

Bang for the buck, I just think that it's hard to do better than a Saiga. VEPR rifles, for me, are for people who want the high quality looks (fit and finish) as well as great function. If anybody wants to spend the money for that, more power to them. If you're just interested in great function (accuracy and reliability), it's really hard to beat the Saiga.

Do you think I'm wrong?

I'll admit that if I was a wealthy man, the VEPR would look awefully tempting.
 
Saigas' fit and finish remind me of a SAR-1's fit and finish. Functional, but not pretty. When picking a 7.62x39, I picked the VEPR K and did pay slightly over $600 out the door for an AK, and have no regrets. As far as .308, I didn't pick the Saiga, or the twice as expensive VEPR... I picked the twice again as expensive SA-58 (when it finally gets here in 6-8 weeks. :fire: ) because I want experience with a new platform, as well as several other factors. When you bring the cost of FALs and M1As into consideration, the VEPR looks like a fantastic bargain, and indeed it is, as is the Saiga.

I love my VEPR. You can find VEPR info on any caliber offered here:

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=519
 
Anyone know where I can get a 5 round magazine for my Saiga .308 to make it legal for big game hunting in Colorado? A metal mag would also be nice. . .
 

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.308 AKs

Yugo--they go for a pretty penny...used...IF you can find one.
Romaks--certainly a good bit more than a VEPR.
Galils--If you can find one, the word "cheap" won't come into to play.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that a VEPR is easily $400-500 less than the next cheapest .308 AK on the market. In fact, buying a USED .308 AK in decent condition for what a VEPR brings might be difficult.

Again, the Saiga is an exceptional value at about half the price of a VEPR, I'm not badmouthing them by any means--but their impressively low price doesn't mean the VEPR's price is inflated or even high. In fact, if there were no .308 Saigas available, you would hear people praising the VEPR to high heaven as a truly awesome bargain--IMAGINE! ...a .308 semi auto for UNDER A KBUCK!
 
JohnKSa,

Very good points.

I understand why the VEPR costs more, considering the extra effort that goes into fit and finish, as well as some US parts unless I'm mistaken. I just don't have the money for the VEPR.

I really don't understand why the Romak is so expensive.

For those of us on a tight budget the Saiga fills the need very well, at least in the area of function.
 
I bought my 16 barreled saiga .308 about a year ago got a bipod, a scope, and a 25 round mag. I took it to the range and found out the accuracy was not so excellent. I had bought a norinco mak-90 6 months before that and loved the simplicty of its design. however I am not completely disappointed in the saiga .308. I am getting anywhere from 1.5 to 4'' moa depending on the ammo used. the factory ammo was closer to 4'' and usually destroyed the case is the process. I used the hornady service rifle data in the newest handloaders guide. The case's lived and my accuracy was greatly improved. So if you are noticing the infamous AK dent on your brass use a service rifle load or a lighter bullet.


The load I am using is 168gr hornady a-max bullets with 40.5 grains or reloader 15 in military brass and 41.5 grains in commercial.
The bullet seating depth is c.o.a.l. of 2.790''

hornadys 155 grain and nosler 150 grain b-tips work well but I am currently working on a load for 125 grain noslers b-tip to get a little more hydro-static since the 168's-150's aren’t super fast, I don’t have a chrony but I guarantee they don’t fly any faster than 2600 fps
 
I handled a VEPR with a funny looking synthetic stock. It was used but in very nice condition and I really liked it. This was several months ago and the price tag was $950.00 IIRC. I wound up buying (2) Saiga 308-1 with the 16 barrel for $1100.00. I like the Saigas very much but in terms of fit & finsih the VEPR was a bit nicer. That doesn't mean it will work any better.
 
Yeesh.

Anyone here familiar with the CZ VZ58?

That little Czech beats the snot out of the headliners, in my opinion.

isher
 
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