BERETTA 92 VS. PT92 QUESTION

Beretta 92 VS. Taurus PT92

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...taurus copied the design in 1980 about a decade before beretta already had multiple models out...
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Taurus built their line off of Beretta equipment that Beretta sold to them after the Brazilian military contract was fulfilled. From Taurus' website:
Beretta had won a huge contract in 1974 to produce small arms for the army of Brazil. Part of the deal was that Beretta construct a Brazilian factory and use Brazilian labor. This they did, in the southwestern coastal city of Sao Paulo. When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant, literally "lock, stock and barrel," to Taurus. Taurus now owned everything that once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very experienced work force. Taurus was in the pistol business, and immediately sought to improve on the Beretta design...
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Beretta later modified the 92 into a slide mtd decocking safety and a few other little tweaks (flare at mag well).

Taurus stuck with the frame mtd safety that their original Beretta designs & equipment were set up for. It is preferred by some for two reasons; reach and C&L SA carry.

A lot of people clone the 1911 design as well. Some are better than others, maybe. At a price.

Owning both a Beretta and a Taurus, I prefer the Bull for the above safety design reasons, so I gave my Ber92 to my son... not to mention that my Taurus is more accurate in my hands.

YMMV

The design has evolved since Beretta started making their model 951 Brigadier back in the 50's. Helwan's (Egyptian) 51 and 92 and Iraqi 1951 Tariq's come to mind as other clones worth owning. Link below shows some of the evolution of the Italian design.

http://www.berettacollection.com/9mm/9mm.html

Truly a world class 9mm. Worthy of cloning. Especially if you use Beretta machining, drawings and a well trained work force (kinda sounds like Taurus, doesn't it?).

Buy the Beretta first, then if you like it as much as I think you will, see about getting a clone or two from the mid-east and Brazil (if collecting things like that is in your interests) or, if you've got scads of money and time, try collecting original Berettas that show the design evolution.

But for those that pooh-pooh Taurus 92/99 for the cloning, make sure that you don't own any other 1911 than a Colt since they're, you know, the original and all others are just... clones. ;)

Customer service of Taurus probably ranks right up there w/ HK. Not that I've got personal experience with either, since I've not yet needed it. Just what I read on the 'net.
 
If I didn't shoot these in matches I would never have bought one. It's not really good enough for a match gun...
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http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=7074

Note all the Border Patrol Agents (and for some reason Clay Tippit is called a CBP Agent though he is Border Patrol). They use stock Beretta 96s, except during the revolver competition. Seems good enough for those matches. If you search border patrol pistol competition, you will get hundreds of hits and reports of other match wins.
 
Personally, I would prefer the Taurus over the Beretta. It's a better fit for me than the Beretta, in comfort, ease of operation, and financially. My brother has a Beretta 92 and is well-pleased with it. It's a nice shooter and has yet to fail in any way.

That said, in the varied posts i've seen, the overall quality of the Taurus is really hit or miss, while the Beretta is much more consistent. I've read several posts where people say the customer service of Taurus leaves much to be desired. While again, Beretta is much more consistent. If all is equal to you in fit and finances, go with the Beretta.

Good luck and I do believe that either way you go, you'll be happy.
 
The DA/SA Beretta 92/96 trigger gets a little getting used to... but don't listen to the BS about the M9 from "less than stellar military members"
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Rule of thumb where I work is that per fifty shooters on the flat range doing a mix of M4A1 and M9 drills, one M9 will break per day with locking block failure. Five day work week usually puts 10% or so of the pistols present down with broken locking blocks. The pistol is simply not durable enough for sustained, high round count use of M882 (+P-ish) ammunition.

I guess that makes me one of those "less than stellar military members" :rolleyes:
 
http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=7074

Note all the Border Patrol Agents (and for some reason Clay Tippit is called a CBP Agent though he is Border Patrol). They use stock Beretta 96s, except during the revolver competition. Seems good enough for those matches. If you search border patrol pistol competition, you will get hundreds of hits and reports of other match wins.
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Good scores from the BP. Looks like they kicked ass. I wonder if they choosed the 96 or it's what they're issued. Either way, kudos to them.

I can usually hold my own with an M9 when everybody else is shooting them. If it was a bring your own gun event it still would be way down on my list of choices.

What do they shoot for revolver?
 
I didn't vote because I've never fired a Beretta 92, but my Dad has a PT99 (adjustable sight version of the PT92) and it's been flawless. Accurate, fun to shoot, etc.
However, if the difference is only $60 I'd be really tempted to go towards the Beretta for resale value. $60 isn't very much and the Taurus, although a great gun from my experiences, will probably always be known as a "copy" of the Beretta.
 
While it is true that a Taurus is not a Beretta, and a Singer (or Ithaca or Remington Rand or U.S.S., not to mention Kimber, Springfield, Sistema, S&W, etc)
...will probably always be known as a "copy" of the...
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Colt 1911, I'll always appreciate the Brazilian model for putting the safety in the right place. :D

I'll quit beating the dead horse deader at this point. Now if they'd just make one in .45acp....
 
Border Patrol moved on to the HK P2000. I believe CBP is the Sig 229 DAK.
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Border Patrol IS MOVING to the P2000. Most (on the southwest border) still carry Berettas. The competition team still uses the 96. I suppose they use it because most are firearms instructors (but not all) and it's what they teach and what they carry. I'm sure they COULD use whatever they want, but doubt that they will. I'm sure they will transition to a P2000 soon enough.

CBP, don't know. Thought they were going to P2000s also.
 
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I don't really have much to add, other then the fact that you can get a new Beretta 92 for $410 with two mags from CDNN right now.
 
The Taurus, because I can still buy one in stainless... And get one with a rail and without the Vertec grip that doesn't seem to fit anybody (myself included).
 
I would buy the Beretta if it were the Vertec version. I just prefer the way it feels in my hand.

Otherwise, it would be the Taurus for me. The safety is in the right place, it is manufactured in a Beretta plant by employees that were, for the most part, trained by Beretta, and my personal observation has been that it is just as good funcitonally as the Beretta.

BTW- I would pick a CZ over either of the two if it were me. Beretta quality at Taurus prices.

W
 
The Taurus, because I can still buy one in stainless... And get one with a rail and without the Vertec grip that doesn't seem to fit anybody (myself included).
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very wrong beretta still makes an inox and alot of people like the vertec grip look up one post
 
Quality-wise, I'd take either one and wouldn't bat an eye. Beretta has an edge with the magazines, I think, but there are ways around it. I love the Vertec grip, but I'm also one of the Taurus fans when it comes to the safety.

My dream gun is a Taurus Vertec in 45ACP that takes 1911 mags. :D
 
I have owned 3 Taurus handguns and 2 had to go back in the first few rounds, I now own 0 and don't plan to change that.
 
CBP is issued the Sig 229DAK along with the rest of DHS now.
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Talked with a CBP (Port of Entry) guy today. They all have received P2000s. Don't know who is slated to get Sigs. I had the impression that H&K won the trials but that Sig sued. Then DHS declared Sig a co-winner, but not sure what that is supposed to mean. Maybe other DHS agencies are getting it.

Beretta has an edge with the magazines,
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Wow. Didn't know the mags weren't interchangeable.

Funny thing is that a friend of mine has a 92 that he got in the 80s for duty use. He didn't like it when he got it. Really wanted a Sig 226, but since the Beretta was a gift, he kept it. Still says it is the most accurate service pistol he's carried. I kinda felt the same way. Hard to like that Beretta DA trigger. Actually the whole package is hard to love. But it shoots well once you get used to that trigger pull. I've never found another pistol that I shoot better with.
 
One version that i feel really is missed a lot is the Centurion, I have a 96 Centurion and its great, I wish I had a 92 centurion but they seem to have dried up at reasonable prices.

As for the locking blocks breaking, I wonder about that. my 96 has 50K rounds thru it and it is fine, I have another full size 92 that has close to that number thru it, and all i have done with either pistol is a new recoil spring at about every 10K rounds. I think what happens a lot with the "breakage prone guns" is the get the pee shot out of them, with minimal maintenance until something breaks, then it is the guns fault.

I had experience with the Elite model that had the frame mounted safety and feel that would be a great addition to the regular line that would bolster sales.

I do believe Beretta is dropping the base 92 in favor of that 90two thing they are pushing.
 
Shooter 1: "That's a nice Beretta you got there"
Shooter 2: "It's a Taurus"
Shooter 1: "Oh, it's a Taurus"

Get the real thing.
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So.... What your basically saying is that you would tell someone with a Taurus that they had a nice gun until you found out it was a Taurus, at which point you would think it sucks? That doesn't make sense, but whatever.

For my money, go with the Taurus. I have two, and both are very accurate and quite reliable. On the used market, they go for considerably cheaper than 60 bucks. Of course, that means they don't retain much resale value but all that means to me is that I can still find a really good gun for cheap. I am not a Beretta hater by any means so much as I think the Taurus represents a much better value.
 
Taurus represents a much better value.
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now that is true to a certain extent...
1. taurus mim and the finish sucks
2. good for a plinker or starter gun
3. easy on the wallet for just a gun to have around
4. it has a life time warranty for a reason
5. they will never be as accurate as my berettas!! :evil:
 
Taurus and Beretta

Taurus WERE Berettas. In 1974 the Beretta factory located in Brazil was tooled up to make 40,000 92's for the Brazilian Army. The tooling is Italian, the workers trained by Beretta, the pistols Beretta 92's. When they finished the run, the factory had all the tooling sitting idle. Along came Forjas Taurus (Taurus Forge), a producer of firearms in Brazil and they bought the factory with all the tooling, drawings, engineering details, materials, and Beretta trained workers. Even a number of Italians stayed on. Quickly out of the gate, Taurus started making improvements, most notably to the improved safety. To say that a Taurus is a copy of a Beretta is not quite correct. It IS a Beretta, originally. I suppose there will always be people who bash other products, but realistically, both are excellent guns. I have not owned a Taurus, but I have shot one, and it will be the next gun I buy (unless I go with the 1911 by Springfield Armory... also made in Brazil by Taurus' big competitor). I owned a Beretta 92 some years back and it quit on the first mag. I had a number of problems with it, but I don't think that is the routine with Beretta... I just got one of those odd clunkers that all manufacturers produce occasionally. I think Beretta is an excellent pistol. As to which one to get, I am certainly not lofty enough to advocate one over another... it all boils down to what appeals to you. Beware of those that claim one is junk while the other is salvation, and those that say 'Beretta quality at Taurus prices' (The CZ). All are great

-I am not young enough to know everything... Oscar Wilde
 
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1. taurus mim and the finish sucks
2. good for a plinker or starter gun
3. easy on the wallet for just a gun to have around
4. it has a life time warranty for a reason
5. they will never be as accurate as my berettas!!
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To answer in order:

1. Well, the finish on both of mine is just fine, and one is even one of the older models. It is probably a fair statement to say that Taurus MIM was not that great at one point. Times change, and I think that they build a fine gun now.

2. Thats your opinion. My Taurus is very accurate, and has thus far been 100% reliable. I honestly can't see where I would be any better off with a Beretta. The name stampoed on the side of the gun isn't what makes it shoot, after all.

3. Easy on the wallet is true.

4. They have a lifetime warranty because Taurus stands by it's product. If it were, as you imply, because the guns aren't that great, why would they commit to that extreme a warranty? Basically, your implying that Taurus is willing to spend boatloads of money in service, over the course of the guns life, just so they can sell bad guns. Thats faulty logic by any standard.

5. I am almost tempted to ship you my beat up PT99 so you can shoot it and see if that claim is true. Honest to god, it's my most accurate centerfire handgun.

Finally, I respond to your argument only for the fun of the debate. If you like Berettas, godspeed. They are fine guns and I liked the one I carried one in the USMC. If I found one at a good price, I wouldn't say "NO!!! TAURUS ONLY!!!". I just stand by my claim that the Taurus is a better value, which isn't necessarily to say it's a better (or worse) gun.
 
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