gun-fucious
Member
some of us already have an ARFifteen and desire a pistol caliber carbine
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ber92eur9mm3.html
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ber92eur9mm3.html
Beretta CX-4 Storms now available! Less than $500!!!
- Thread starter fnforme
- Start date
- Status
T.Stahl
Member
I'd like to buy one...
...as soon as they make one that's compatible with Glock mags.
...as soon as they make one that's compatible with Glock mags.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
Wow. you must have a really interesting carry pistol if your ar-15 truck gun uses the same magazines as it.
George Hill
Member
I'm sure he says the same thing about the MP-5.
My new wallpaper:
http://www.cx4storm.com/index.aspx?m=53&did=43
SodaPop
member
Today's date is June 17th, 2003. Beretta has been around since the year 1526AD.
That's a pretty safe company if you ask me.
gun-fucious
Member
George Hill
Member
You mean, how cool would those be with a nice suppressor on it...
Answer:
Very.
Answer:
Very.
natedog
Member
On the cover of a gun rag I saw at the book store it said that it could shoot 2" groups at 50 yards.
Wow. you must have a really interesting carry pistol if your ar-15 truck gun uses the same magazines as it.
END
In reality this is not such an advantage. My CAR15 has one 20 round mag loaded with 18 in a but stock mag pouch and another 20 round mag loaded with 18 in the well. That’s the way I have it for patrol. Plus its in a bag with 4 30 round mags loaded with 28 rounds apiece. Even if I just brab the rifle I have 36 rounds of ammo at my disposal. If I have time to dawn my raid gear I will place a 30 round mag in the gun and have 3 more on my vest. The rounds in my pistol will be of little importance. Now if I were armed with a pistol caliber carbine I would have a 15 round mag or a 20 round mag in the gun and 2 (15 round mags) on my duty belt that were there for my pistol. I would rather have the Ar15 with a just 36 rounds in its lightest load than a pistol caliber carbine with 51 rounds.
SNIP
I'm sure he says the same thing about the MP-5.
END
Not trying to offend here. The MP5 is a fun gun to shoot and one of the best sub guns made. I have had my share of trigger time on them. However I would take a M4 carbine or a G36 over an MP5 any day of the weak. Subgun are slowly moving out of tactical teams and 223 compact assault rifles are moving in to replace them. The 223 gives you better range and stopping power with less risk of over penetration. Its an all around winner. While the pistol caliber carbine leaves you with a weapon that simply increases an officers accuracy at handgun range. Thats good but it does nothing in the way of greater stopping power or greater than pistol range.
PAT
END
In reality this is not such an advantage. My CAR15 has one 20 round mag loaded with 18 in a but stock mag pouch and another 20 round mag loaded with 18 in the well. That’s the way I have it for patrol. Plus its in a bag with 4 30 round mags loaded with 28 rounds apiece. Even if I just brab the rifle I have 36 rounds of ammo at my disposal. If I have time to dawn my raid gear I will place a 30 round mag in the gun and have 3 more on my vest. The rounds in my pistol will be of little importance. Now if I were armed with a pistol caliber carbine I would have a 15 round mag or a 20 round mag in the gun and 2 (15 round mags) on my duty belt that were there for my pistol. I would rather have the Ar15 with a just 36 rounds in its lightest load than a pistol caliber carbine with 51 rounds.
SNIP
I'm sure he says the same thing about the MP-5.
END
Not trying to offend here. The MP5 is a fun gun to shoot and one of the best sub guns made. I have had my share of trigger time on them. However I would take a M4 carbine or a G36 over an MP5 any day of the weak. Subgun are slowly moving out of tactical teams and 223 compact assault rifles are moving in to replace them. The 223 gives you better range and stopping power with less risk of over penetration. Its an all around winner. While the pistol caliber carbine leaves you with a weapon that simply increases an officers accuracy at handgun range. Thats good but it does nothing in the way of greater stopping power or greater than pistol range.
PAT
Tamara
Senior Member
PAT,
I don't think anybody here is buying their rifle/carbine for a "tactical team".
I don't think anybody here is buying their rifle/carbine for a "tactical team".
Are you saying that a .223 doesn't penetrate as much as 9mm or a .40 or a .45?
Where do you come by that info? Why don't you put a stack of phone books in a box and shoot it with a AR carbine chambered in .223 and then shoot a MP5 with 9mm and see which penetrates more? I have my guess.
Also, why don't you keep the 30 round mags in the carbine in case you need them? They don't stick out that much more than the 20 round mags.
iamkris
Member
<edited to remove personal attack even though it was couched in "smilies">
A good many people buy a pistol caliber carbine because it's 1) fun to shoot, 2) like the idea of having 1 caliber between pistol and carbine, 3) itsanewgunandIwantit, 4) 3-gun carbine events 5) because I can
Not everyone is looking for the uber-tactical goblin-stopper.
A good many people buy a pistol caliber carbine because it's 1) fun to shoot, 2) like the idea of having 1 caliber between pistol and carbine, 3) itsanewgunandIwantit, 4) 3-gun carbine events 5) because I can
Not everyone is looking for the uber-tactical goblin-stopper.
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gun-fucious
Member
IMHO a CX Storm would make a nice carry piece for us Wookie sized folke
mayhaps a Gemtech Raptor and Bi-lock, George?:
http://www.gem-tech.com/raptor.html
mayhaps a Gemtech Raptor and Bi-lock, George?:
http://www.gem-tech.com/raptor.html
SodaPop
member
I thought the same thing until a few months ago.
There was a thread here or on TFL (in Dec. or January) that talked about this.
The faster/higher velocity 5.56FMJ penetrates less than a 124gr 9mm because it usually fragments. Sometimes certain rounds will penetrate more at slower velocities than at higher velocities.
The 5.56 will also create a larger wound cavity but still won't penetrate as far into something.
natedog
Member
No, just reporting what it said. Watch the personal atttaks, Iamkris.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
For us mere mortals who cannot carry a loaded rifle in their car, it IS an advantage.
Combat-wombat
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,683
Do they accept M92 mags?
cool45auto
Member
The 9mm version does take 92fs mags.
starfuryzeta
Member
Looks like the auctions are starting to show up now.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9459891
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9459891
Mannlicher
Member
Yawn. Just another European plastic gun, and a pistol caliber carbine at that. I think I'll stick with useful guns; Make mine a Springfield M1A.
George Hill
Member
A carbine that uses the same mags and ammo as your pistol IS an advantage. This is why Winchester made that famous rifle in .44-40 to go with the .44-40 revolvers. Why Cowboy shooters get 5-shooters in .45 Colt and Lever Action Rifles. Why the Army adopted the Thompson to go with the 1911. Why FN made a shouldered gun and a pistol based on the same round.
Using similar ammo makes a lot of sense. Handloaders have an easier time. Your wallet even has an easier time.
If your talking about the pistol round is at a balistic disadvantage at long range - sure your right. It is. But considering most gunfights are under 100 meters - I pistol caliber round will do just fine. And at short ranges with weapons of similar barrel lengths, I would rather have the pistol caliber.
I see this weapon as a huge advantage. And a gym bag full of mags stuffed with cheap value packed 9mm rounds from Wal-Mart... Means I can do a lot more shooting for the same amount than you can with your real he-man rifle spitting out wee little .22 pills. Hmmm... 55 grains or 147 grains? The arguements over terminal effect are a whole other subject.
With the different loads available... there are a lot of good things you can do. Including deer hunting which is something you can't legally do with your .223 rifle. But I can image a .45 Storm loaded with Hornady Custom loads would be great on white tails. Especially if you stalk the deer instead of sitting up in a stand drinking beer waiting for it to lie down in the back of your pick up.
A Storm in .357SIG would be righteous... I would love to play with one and a good chrony...
But I would still be most happy with one in 9mm... +P+ loads would be glorious... topped with a nice red dot sight... fast handling... beautiful. This type of gun might not be your ticket... but it's mine.
Using similar ammo makes a lot of sense. Handloaders have an easier time. Your wallet even has an easier time.
If your talking about the pistol round is at a balistic disadvantage at long range - sure your right. It is. But considering most gunfights are under 100 meters - I pistol caliber round will do just fine. And at short ranges with weapons of similar barrel lengths, I would rather have the pistol caliber.
I see this weapon as a huge advantage. And a gym bag full of mags stuffed with cheap value packed 9mm rounds from Wal-Mart... Means I can do a lot more shooting for the same amount than you can with your real he-man rifle spitting out wee little .22 pills. Hmmm... 55 grains or 147 grains? The arguements over terminal effect are a whole other subject.
With the different loads available... there are a lot of good things you can do. Including deer hunting which is something you can't legally do with your .223 rifle. But I can image a .45 Storm loaded with Hornady Custom loads would be great on white tails. Especially if you stalk the deer instead of sitting up in a stand drinking beer waiting for it to lie down in the back of your pick up.
A Storm in .357SIG would be righteous... I would love to play with one and a good chrony...
But I would still be most happy with one in 9mm... +P+ loads would be glorious... topped with a nice red dot sight... fast handling... beautiful. This type of gun might not be your ticket... but it's mine.
Redlg155
Member
Well, not actually. This is just an auction for a pre order. I think it's crazy to have an auction for a pre order when you could probably do the same at virtually any dealer.
The 9mm is a great caliber in a smaller carbine. The biggest benefit I've seen is that I can shoot it anywhere, both indoor and outdoor ranges with minimal expense. You can't do that with a .223 gun.
Good Shooting
Red
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