Beretta's locking block vs. CZ's slide stop (Beretta 92 vs. CZ-75/85)

[Irfan]

There is no doubt that the Beretta 92FS and the CZ-75B are two of my five favourite 9mm pistols (G17/19, HK USP/P30, HS-9, CZ-75B/85B/SP-01 and B92FS/90-Two), but these two have so many things in common like a metal frame for example, a very good history record and also both pistols are very pretty. My problem is that I can't buy them all, and also I want to practise with the same pistol I carry and have a spare one. It is hard to get used to all these five handguns. I'd rather have three same Glocks than let's say one Beretta, one Glock and one HK.

Many people say that Beretta's locking block doesn't last but seriously do you really think that CZ's slide stop lasts longer? Which one would you rather have for the rest of your life, CZ or Beretta?
Thanks.

 

[otomik]

slide stop? wrong terminology. try petter-browning or modified browning short recoil.

my Beretta was born in 1984 and it's running perfectly but i've only put about 2,000 rounds through it. the locking block is an essential part of the model 92's reliability so i consider it worth it even if I have to replace it once in a long while.

the CZ is also good, either way you'll be happy. i suggest you refocus on other deciding factors like preferred controls because you won't find dramatic differences.

 

[Rod B]

The CZ slide stop has been problem free other than a few that were made some years ago where the frame hole for the slide stop was not machined straight. These did have problems.

From what I have read on the various forums the number was very small & CZ will make it right.

 

[Calhoun]

Which one can you shoot better.

Both will be reliable, but I think you will have more issues w/the Beretta locking block as the round count creeps up. Of course, depending on how much you shoot, this could take decades. As Rod B stated, the slide stop brekage issues in CZs was limited to a small run of frames. If you are buying a NIB pistol you shouldn't worry.

 

[BobbyQuickdraw]

Almost every single negative thing you've heard about the Beretta 92 series and breakage all comes from the same sad story - US Government testing using improper and hot loaded ammunition.

More recent testing indicates the locking block will last for 22,000 rounds and the gun will fire 17500 times on average without an FTF. Just for your info, the guns life expectancy is 35000 for the frame and 75000 for the slide.

I'll admit to being partial though, as after thorough and careful research I've just recently purchased a Beretta 92FS.

 

[Lone Star]

I'd be more concerned about the CZ-75's firing pin, especially if you dry-fire sans the snap caps.


I like the CZ-75 better, overall.
And I think the CZ is a better value.

But if you like seeing your gun in movies, the Beretta wins hands down.

Lone Star

 

[Chindo18Z]

BERETTA 92FS / M9:

I first fired the 92F out at Mott Lake in '83 (JSSAP trial weapons which we ran through the ringer).

I've been issued an M9 (a total of 8 weapons) continuously since 1994 (replacing the 1911A1s issued in my units prior to that).

I've owned two 92FS models. I still have one of them. I like to have a personal copy of whatever I carry at work...it reinforces training drills.

I've broken several locking blocks on my issue Beretta pistols (which have had a lot more rounds put through them than my personal weapons). I've also had a couple of trigger return springs break. Hint: In a pinch, turn the pistol upside down and pull the trigger. It will still fire.

My privately owned 92FS has never had a problem. It has the older (military) style locking block. It has yet to give up the ghost. On the other hand, that Beretta is just a range gun for off-duty shooting.

I've lost count of the locking blocks broken in my presence on various ranges and deployments. Not an uncommon occurrence (and pretty widely regarded as normal) inside most USSOCOM units.

During a 5 month period in 1999, 47 M9 locking blocks failed (sheared) out of 83 assigned weapons in my company. This after some admittedly hi-volume firing.

At my most recent range session (last week), seven Beretta locking blocks went south in the first two days of firing. All student weapons were M9s. Rob Leatham was our instructor. Rob's pistol was (naturally) a .45 XD.

CZ 75/85:

I purchased my first CZ75 in '92, followed by a CZ85, followed by a CZ75B. I still own the 75B. I've put about 7000-7500 trouble free rounds through that one and it is my favorite semi-auto. It is also my only semi-auto home defense pistol (other HD handguns are 4" .357s loaded with +P .38).

My experience with the CZs is limited to the three I've owned, two or three I've fired on overseas deployments (host nation weapons), and the half a dozen or so weapons owned by friends at the range.

I've yet to have a mechanical failure with the CZ series, nor has anyone that I personally know. That said...I'm aware of the slide-stop failure stories. I believe them to be true.

So...What the hell is my point?

The three pistol designs with which I am MOST comfortable and proficient (due to long exposure, practice, and training) are:

The 1911A1, the Beretta 92, and the CZ 75. All of them perform. All of them feel like an old friend when they come to hand.

The only one I worry about breaking in my hand is the Beretta.

Thus, in answer to the OP's questions:

"Many people say that Beretta's locking block doesn't last but seriously do you really think that CZ's slide stop lasts longer?"

YES

"Which one would you rather have for the rest of your life, CZ or Beretta?"

CZ


It's my opinion and YMMV (Flame On... )

 

[BobCat]

I've broken two slide stops in my CZ75B, but it took lots of rounds (first one went about 15k rounds) and nothing else on the pistol has even given a hint of wearing out or breaking. It still prints better than I can hold and I still carry it (trust it implicitly).

Mike Eagleshield, the gunsmith at CZ-USA, told me to keep a fresh recoil spring in it and use a plastic shock buff at the range. I do these things, and I have an "extra" slide stop for range use - the one in the pistol daily has minimal use on it. At the range I unload and clear, put in the shock buff, and assemble with the "training" slide stop. Before I go home I clean the pistol, leave out the shock buff, assemble with the "daily carry" slide stop, and reload with my carry ammunition. If I did not trust the pistol I would sell it or relegate it to range use only, and carry something else.

No experience with the Beretta.

Regards,
Andrew

 

[SDDL-UP]

I like the slide stop because it's so easy to replace, takes all of about five seconds. Really... could anything be more simple? I've never had to repair a Beretta (don't own one) or fix my Hi-Power, but they can't be that simple.

CZ is currently using a double roll pin to retain the firing pin on those models with a firing pin block. This, and the inclusion of some very basic (not very good) snap caps seems to have eliminated the problem of breaking that roll pin. It seems to be pretty well accepted that firing, or dry firing a CZ will smooth up the trigger quite a bit, so a lot of people dry fire them like crazy. I myself would rather do a simple trigger job. While the double roll pin solution is not as nice as the retaining plate on the CZ-85 COMBAT and SP-01 SHADOW it appears to be pretty durable.

 

[Moonclip]

I like the CZ better and strangely I like Taurus Beretta 92 clones better than the real deal and I've owned all three types. I have personally seen breakage problems with Beretta 92fs pistols in the civilian world but I don't have much experience with the newer Berettas which are suppse to be somewhat more robust.

 

[FlyPenFly]

What is a shock buff?

Does the P-01 also have the slide stop problem?

 

[GaryArkansas]

From a previous poster:

"More recent testing indicates the locking block will last for 22,000 rounds and the gun will fire 17500 times on average without an FTF. Just for your info, the guns life expectancy is 35000 for the frame and 75000 for the slide."

The Beretta website lists the MRBF (mean round between failure) at 1,250.
The CZ website has the CZ-P01 MRBF at 2,142 rounds with a frame life expectancy of 30,000 rounds.

I can't find any other reasonably accessible information about pistol reliability, in terms of MRBF and frame. However, I suspect that another commonly used duty pistol, the Glock 19, also possesses an extended life cyclle and rate of reliability, due to its acquisition of a NATO stock number (NSN).

I'd also imagine the Smith & Wesson M&P and many of the SIG pistols, have similar life cycles, due to their frequent testing by government puirchasing agencies.

What does this mean? There are lots of good pistols out there. Find one that you can shoot well and is made by a reputable manufacturer.

Then go out and practice and be safe.

 

[golden]

Which Shoots Best?

I would go to a range that rents both guns and shoot 100 rounds through it and see how you do.

I have a lot of BERETTA experience and like them. I have also owned a CZ when I was outside the U.S.

My last issue BERETTA started the SLOW SLIDE SYNDROME just before I converted to the H&K. I have seen this before. The locking lug area around the the lug groves in the slide wears and the gun cycles more and more slowly. Eventually you can watch the slide go back and forth as you fire, but it still worked.
It only seems to happen on the BERETTA .40 guns which take a real beating from the high velocity rounds.

I think the 9m.m. model 92 will last for the rest of your life if you STANDARD 9m.m. ammo (NO +P or +P+) and are not a full time competitor.

I would take either one. I choose the BERETTA because I can get them cheaper (I buy police trade in or demo guns) and the DOUBLE ACTION ONLY trigger on the BERETTA shoots best for me.

Jim

 

[rbernie]

I like the slide stop because it's so easy to replace, takes all of about five seconds. Really... could anything be more simple? I've never had to repair a Beretta (don't own one) or fix my Hi-Power, but they can't be that simple.

This was my first thought. Replace the slide stop every 10K rounds, resist the urge to up-rate the recoil spring, and don't look back.

 

[PCRCCW]

Well either way your ok..the locking block issue with Beretta is just a military induced conspiracy!

The slide stop issue with CZ's was just a run of bad parts...it happens.
And whats this about the firing pin problem? Ive had 30+ CZ's...I can name them if you want? Ive had trouble with 2 guns and one of them was a "Ive never seen that before!" thing.

Dry fire the hell out of them....Ive dry fired CZ's WITHOUT a snap cap well over 100,000 times and never had a problem.

Shoot well and god bless