BG Encounters: What are you prepared for?

[KiltedClaymore]

so could a hand grenade

 

[chieftain]

Or like the two LEO's in Idaho a few years back.

The BG's, two of them, one was hit IIRC 28 times and #2 was hit 16 times. Neither was stopped or killed. I have seen folks hit by 50 BMG not be stopped. Even with rifles it happens. It just doesn't happen often.

By 230gr 45acp JHP's. Or the last Officer involved shooting with the 45acp by the Texas DPS was a Contact shot that didn't stop the BG. The BG still used what remained of his can of whoop ass on the officer.

ALL HAND GUN CALIBERS HAVE POOR STOPPING POWER. ALL OF THEM.

No exceptions to the rule. That's why what ever you are using, shoot them to ground with it.

Know your weapon, know the cartridge and the bullet you choose, everyone of them have pluses and minuses. Use that data to work for you. Because if you don't, what ever negatives it has will surely work against you.

If you think you may be in a fight, take a long arm, and a lot of friends with long arms and still try to avoid it.

A fellow wrote a book about this years ago. DARWIN was his last name.

I enjoy the part where people feel their sidearms are all they need. The only reason we use side arms is convenience, not efficiency for fighting.

Have a plan. Next time you pop in the local Stop 'n' Rob, or the Movie rental store. What are you going to do if some guy is robbing the store when you walk in? What is your plan? Which hand are you carrying the movies you are bringing back? Etc..... Will you have your kids, wife, girl friend etc with you. Must you go defensive to protect stay neutral to avoid, or attack? What is your planned deception move/act?

While you are bent over putting your little one, or grandchild in the child seat, and the BG comes' up behind you? What's your plan?

What are you going to do if you are injured and broke your arm at work. Now you are walking around with a cast on? What is your plan "B". Or as you get older, can't move as well, or fight unarmed as you could before that Heart attack or what ever.

Get a reliable platform, in a weapon that fits you, not you fit the weapon, train, train some more, get quality practice. and PLAN!

If caliber is still your big question, I don't think you really understand the question.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[vanilla_gorilla]

Wish I'd said all that, Fred.

 

[skud_dusty]

I like to live by a quote my father has said as long as I can remember: if you're born to hang, you'll never drown.

I'm not going to go through life worrying about if the 7 rounds I'm carrying will be enough. I'm also not going to inconvience myself by carrying my AR everywhere I go. I carry what I feel is enough for what I might encounter. If it's my time to go, then it's my time to go.

 

[Autolycus]

I dont know what I am prepared for but I do know what I will have to deal with. Its easy to talk about how your going to shoot the badguy in the face 7 times or going to give him 2 to the chest and 1 to the head, when that time comes it will not necessarily be so.

I know that I cannot necesarily prepare for anything in particular but have to rely on what I bring with me. Hopefully it will be enough.

 

[brashboy]

Fred's comments are getting more to the heart of what I am thinking. The handgun is a last resort kind of thing. I am always aware of who is around me, but know that a BG could sidle up while I'm putting grandson into a car seat, for example. Alertness and a cool head are of vastly more value than a gun. The gun is for when a cool head alone just won't solve the problem.

This would be hard to research, but of all the guys who pulled, or pulled and used, their carry piece: what percentage of them were glad they did, and what percentage wish to hell they didn't have a gun that day? As an attorney (don't practice anymore), I am VERY concerned about the legal post-mortem on a shooting, or even showing the gun. My son, when 16 (now 32) was threatened by an ex-girlfriend and her then 25-year old boyfriend, who tried to lure him out of the house and had told acquaintences in common that they were going to hurt my son. He went and got a revolver and showed it on the front doorstep, but didn't point it. A felony menacing arrest happened before nightfall. We hired an attorney famed for such things, and she made it go away. But get this: the State of Colorado was a bit concerned about the constitutionality of the statute, knew it would be challenged by a strong attorney and didn't want a test case to be one with wobbly facts, so the charges were dismissed. That's a lot of bullsh*t and over $3K in legal fees. But someone who couldn't afford that attorney, it could have had a different result. Hell, he could have been tried as an adult.

I've seen things over the years absolutely transformed into something else by the time it hit the courtroom, where the BG if he survived, has been cleaned up, put in a suit, given a haircut and his tats are not showing.

And don't kid yourself, a LOT of folks think there is something odd, and even perhaps sinister, about people who carry - almost like they were hoping something would happen so they could use the gun. Despite the 2nd Amendment and carry laws, a jury has its own mind. This is why I'll show or pull the piece, much less use it, only if that seems the only way out.

 

[koja48]

Training, tools, & instinct. Hopefully, I'll never encounter such a threat, BUT, if it happens, I'm sure my Kids would rather see me in court than in a coffin . . . hiring an attorney is undesirable . . . hiring a mortician is final.

 

[kiwibird1]

I live in sunny, hot and humid FL and a .380 will have to do. With the right ammo it should not be an issue. Besides 2 to the chest and 1 to the head should take care of even the meth zombies.

 

[chieftain]

I live in sunny, hot and humid FL and a .380 will have to do. With the right ammo it should not be an issue. Besides 2 to the chest and 1 to the head should take care of even the meth zombies.

I am from Melbourne Florida, 173 miles south of you (think Cape Canaveral). I carried a 357mag model 66 S&W and SIG 228 or 220 while I was living at home.

Now I live in cold and chilly Sun City Arizona, now a suburb of Phoenix. It was only 115 degrees here today. So I guess Jacksonville is warmer than any place I have lived. That's why I carry either a 5" 1911, or 4.6" Hi Power, because of the heat. Some friends of mine out here carry some really heavy Iron, concealled. And yes they do know how to deploy it and apply it.

With that said. You will do fine with your 380, as long as you can do all that (2 to COM and One to the head, or the Mozambique) to your chosen Meth Zombie while moving, single handed (both weak and strong handed) moving fore or aft, port or starboard, or at any of the laterals closing or separating. Just like a a true SPECOPS operator. Not while standing in your square firing range, and shooting standing still with two hands, all that is, is hardly a start. (it's about that deploy and apply capability, thingy)

When you can do all the above consistently, then yes your 380, 38, 357mag/SIG, 40,10,9,45, or 44 are good to go.

Once again, it ain't about caliber. It's about YOU and your capabilities with a reliable platform.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[brashboy]

I'm sure my Kids would rather see me in court than in a coffin . . . hiring an attorney is undesirable . . . hiring a mortician is final.

The better-in-court-than-dead answer is one I hear a lot. I don't mean to pick on Koja, but it sounds almost like a pre-emptive justification for showing or using a firearm, or at least not considering "lesser" alternatives, b/c even if the showing or using turns out to be problematical, well heck, you're still better off in court than dead. Well, if it comes to a gun battle and you win it, you have a point. But you could wind up in a heap of trouble where nobody died, or even got shot, in which case the better in court than dead does not apply.

And that answer also carries an implied assumption that, however big a hassle the "court" part is, you'll prevail in the end. But you might not win the case. How about better in prison than dead? Lousy choice. I'm simply reminding everyone that a license to carry is not a license to show or use. As an attorney, I've heard a lot of guys over the years go from very assured tough talk to crying and shaking jags as they realize they could wind up in the old gray rock college. And it happens to good people, not just jerks.

If you do wind up in a big legal hassle, or worse, fighting for your freedom, you will replay the gun incident in your mind hundreds of times, thinking how you should have done it, how you wish to God you'd done it.

All I'm saying is, try to do it the first time you way you'll later think you "should have done it". That is an impossible standard, I know, but one worthy of "shooting" for.

 

[WVMountainBoy]

I'm 6'4" and a hair over 300 lbs, I can look quite intimidating even if my weapon is concealed. I carry a different weapon for different situations. When going out around the city and such I carry a 40 that I'm very proficient with. I carry with 13 rds and an additional 10 rd clip on my person. From all I've seen and experimented with the .40 it seems more than capable of a one shot stop if I do my part. I practice doing rapid fire strings and even firing off hand and can still usually decimate a pumpkin at 15 yds.

That being said I carry a .45 when I'm hunting because the target may not be a human, it could be a bear, mountain lion, or something else that thinks I smell like dinner and in that case I want more punch than the .40.

On my property I usually carry a 9mm because the worst encounter I am likely to have is a copperhead or skunk.

I try to carry appropriate to what is my most likely encounter and what is the lowest amount of recoil/penetration I can get away with in the given scenario. In the city, over penetration is a MAJOR concern so I want something that just hits hard enough. Out in the country, overpenetration be damned as theres not much if anything to account as collateral damage. Around the house my stuff is the collateral along with water lines, gas lines, and pets.

 

[jpwilly]

Yes there is a limit (I carry 21rnds of 45 ACP) and there comes a point were you are just plain SOL. Often times the BG's have the upper hand unless you see it comming an armed defence may be too little too late! Worrying about it isn't going to change anything.

 

[Bullet]

First, I don’t go to places where I know I should carry a gun (bad parts of town) but I also realize that there is no place that is totally safe. So I try to consider the possibilities of what might happen but I also realize that I won’t always be prepared ahead of time. If the time every comes that I have to defend my family or myself I hope I can make the right choices for our survival. I won’t be a VICTIM if I can help it.

brashboy
We hired an attorney famed for such things, and she made it go away. But get this: the State of Colorado was a bit concerned about the constitutionality of the statute, knew it would be challenged by a strong attorney and didn't want a test case to be one with wobbly facts, so the charges were dismissed.
That's a lot of bullsh*t and over $3K in legal fees. But someone who couldn't afford that attorney, it could have had a different result.

I've seen things over the years absolutely transformed into something else by the time it hit the courtroom, where the BG if he survived, has been cleaned up, put in a suit, given a haircut and his tats are not showing.

As an attorney, I've heard a lot of guys over the years go from very assured tough talk to crying and shaking jags as they realize they could wind up in the old gray rock college. And it happens to good people, not just jerks.

What a ****ed up system we have today, probably thanks to lawyers and bleeding hearts. Also nice to see you need money to get justice.

 

[Daemon688]

Well, everyday I carry A P329 with an extra mag and a P3AT as a BUG. All I know is this, if those don't get me out of trouble I'm in some deep doo doo. If someone really sucked up all those .40 and .380 rounds and still came after me, then the only weapon I should have been carrying at the time would be a rifle.

Or maybe this is a good reason why we should all have machine pistols.

 

[dstorm1911]

Brashboy, your example is one of the reasons I live in ARIZONA, your legally covered as we would rather have a murder or assault prevented by the visible appearance of a gun than have to deal with the crime, ya CAN NOT legally use deadly force to protect property in AZ but you can threaten the use of deadly force however in a case involving violence against a person your can legally USE that deadly force..

Here in Tucson a couple years ago a man was jogging in the early morning before it got hot, he was confronted by 2 knife wielding juveniles threatening to rob him he got his .32 outa his fanny pack and shot and killed one of em the police found the other shortly afterwards, the man was not charged as under AZ law he was fully within his rights to use that deadly force......

Before we moved out here we lived in town, one of our neighbors was a career criminal and drug addict him and his brothers were notorious and had been since they were teenagers now in their mid 40s they never messed with my place though (don't cr@p where ya live idea) my yard was fully fenced and several times my two Chows would start growling in the wee hours I'd respond with .45 or 12 gauge usually to find officers trying to sneak up on my neighbor to serve a warrant usually one of em would end up lookin down the bore of the 12 gauge as soon as I'Ded as officer and not a drug addict the barrel would get lowered they'd just wave me to go inside.......

KIWIBIRD1, unfortunatly I've had to test my response to such a threat more than just one time..........2 to the chest 1 to the face was that response no guessing or wondering what I would do......


How some of you can deal with living in states that don't allow you the right to protect yourself or your family just amazes the cr@p outa me I simply couldn't tolerate it, to be threatened with prison, civil suits etc etc etc... thats just insane

 

[brashboy]

Folks, I'm not saying that carrying is bad, or that we should never show, pull or use a piece. Guns can take things in a different and not necessarily better or smarter direction, and those who carry have to be aware of that. This thread indicates that some people have what seem like one-dimensional views of potentially troublesome situations: bad guy attacks, we draw and shoot. But you may not have a cut and dried situation like that. If a robbery or such occurs, the threat or use of force is justified. But the event may be far more subtle than that and open to differing interpretations.

DStorm, it ain't what we do. It's what the cops and/or DA think we did. And it's what a jury can be convinced that we did. They're human and they have agendas and opinions like all of us. And what is the ground truth and the context? Is the BG surviving to give testimony against you? Were there other witnesses - and who are they? If you pull a gun an an opera attended by a high proportion of antigunners, for example, don't be surprised if YOU turn out to be the BG.

Bullet, when in human history has it not taken money to get justice? I'll bet we're more likely to get justice right here in the USofA than just about anywhere, anytime in history - across the board. Yet there is not much justice, even here. When my son showed the gun, the cops were sympathetic, wanting to know why his 15-year old girlfriend had a new 25-year old boyfriend, why they were at my home in the first place, why there were trying to lure my son into their clutches, etc. The cops were able to confirm that those people had told others they were going to "get" my son. But the DA's office was very nasty and not much interested in the facts, only the show. They pulled up hard only when they saw who our lawyer was, because they knew it just went to a higher level. If I couldn't have afforded this lawyer, or only Legal Aid, would the same result have been obtained? I agree with you that it sucks, but that is the way it usually works. I also had a long talk with my son about showing people a gun. He should have stayed in the house and called me, or called the police. This isn't the best example, I know, but does illustrate the point.

I've seen people have to mortgage their houses to the hilt and sell assets to pay lawyers and cover other costs like expert witnesses. Carrying a gun is a significant act for what it can lead to.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

Uh....Didn't they ask these same questions at the Alamo?

Don't think they had enough ammo for the number of BGs.

Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you. But didn't they put up a whale of a fight. You do remember that don't ye? Well, remember the Alamo!