Biden to target 'ghost guns,' stabilizing braces in new gun control actions

[GEM]

My NRA friend tells me that the handicap/disabled approach has been tried before and not worked. Second, so what - if it did, you would have to get a doctor approved verification of the handicap as you do for a parking permit. Then you could buy an approved brace.

Think it through. As far as waiting for Scotus, to save guns - we've been down that road before. Will Justice Amy save us from the evil schemes of Roberts? Tune it later.

 

[Aim1]

My NRA friend tells me that the handicap/disabled approach has been tried before and not worked. Second, so what - if it did, you would have to get a doctor approved verification of the handicap as you do for a parking permit. Then you could buy an approved brace.

Think it through. As far as waiting for Scotus, to save guns - we've been down that road before. Will Justice Amy save us from the evil schemes of Roberts? Tune it later.

Hopefully SCOTUS will this time with New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Brue which they recently discussed granting cert on.

 

[GEM]

They haven't made a decision yet and keep putting it off. There are two views - one, they just screw around and will take it vs. Roberts is convincing them not to take it or the progun folks don't trust his vote, so they won't take it. The 5 of them have to have fire in the belly to take it and give an clear, unambiguous pro rights decision - not the mess that Heller turned out to be. They get so lost in the weeds that they don't see the poison pills that some blather produces. Heller's SD emphasis has sunk lower court rulings on AWB and mag bans.

 

[AlexanderA]

Interesting that they are going after AR pistol braces -- contending that they turn the pistols into SBRs -- rather than saying that the AR pistols themselves, with stock or without, are SBRs. The timidity of this proposal -- from the point of view of an ostensibly antigun administration -- is astounding. This reinforces my belief that Biden is not serious about gun control (having other priorities on which he wants to spend his political capital), and is just making noises to mollify the antigun activists.

And remember that this is just the opening gambit. A basic principle of negotiation is that you open with your maximal demands, and work downward from there. They are opening with their minimal demands. If you go down from that, you end up with zero.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

How about proposing stiffer penalties for those who misuse guns in the first place. If you're convicted felon and get caught with a gun, home manufactured or otherwise, face a stiff penalty? Make the people who are prohibited from using them in the first place accountable, not every gun owner who isn't bringing harm to others.

What did it mean where it said he would give the ATF 60 days to provide a "separate" ruling on pistol braces?

As someone else stated those laws already exist. The problem is enforcement of those laws.

For some reason (which probably gets down to politics) some local and federal prosecutors do not pursue firearm offenses as vigorously as they should.

An example of this is the lack of prosecutions of any prohibited persons that fail the firearms background check. Around 100k prohibited individuals are stopped from buying a gun every year and all of them committed a felony in their attempt.

 

[Pat Riot]

Executive Orders are not “Laws”. The President can only work within the laws on the books and his orders can be over-ridden by Congress or the Supreme Court. Which I highly doubt would be the case in our current situation.

Here is a nifty little historical piece on Executive Orders and how they work.
https://people.howstuffworks.com/executive-order.htm

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Interesting that they are going after AR pistol braces -- contending that they turn the pistols into SBRs -- rather than saying that the AR pistols themselves, with stock or without, are SBRs. The timidity of this proposal -- from the point of view of an ostensibly antigun administration -- is astounding. This reinforces my belief that Biden is not serious about gun control (having other priorities on which he wants to spend his political capital), and is just making noises to mollify the antigun activists.

And remember that this is just the opening gambit. A basic principle of negotiation is that you open with your maximal demands, and work downward from there. They are opening with their minimal demands. If you go down from that, you end up with zero.

You make a good point. IIRC the Obama/Biden administration did not push for gun control until after they lost the House and Senate

 

[Aim1]

They haven't made a decision yet and keep putting it off. There are two views - one, they just screw around and will take it vs. Roberts is convincing them not to take it or the progun folks don't trust his vote, so they won't take it. The 5 of them have to have fire in the belly to take it and give an clear, unambiguous pro rights decision - not the mess that Heller turned out to be. They get so lost in the weeds that they don't see the poison pills that some blather produces. Heller's SD emphasis has sunk lower court rulings on AWB and mag bans.

According to this article:

"It only takes four justices to grant certiorari and force the court to take up a case. Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, and Neil Gorsuch are locks to want to invent this right."



https://www.thenation.com/article/society/supreme-court-gun-control/



And knowing that ACB is on the court if the cases is taken that should be 5 to 4 minimum in favor of gun rights hopefully; making Roberts no longer the pivotal justice.

 

[GEM]

I know all that but I don't trust them, there are deals to be made on other issues and personalities to contend with. I hope the 5 are solid but you never know.

 

[230RN]

I know all that but I don't trust them, there are deals to be made on other issues and personalities to contend with. I hope the 5 are solid but you never know.

Long ago I thought they were appointed for life so they could make Constitutional decisions independent of such petty things as "politics" and "deals" and "contemporary" ideology and TMZ programs and screeching hordes of women with mascara running down their cheeks.

"Feet of clay" and I now laugh at my own naïveté.

Go ahead, delete this post. I deserve it.

Terry, 230RN

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If the Constitution was absolutely, situationally, and diachronically clear cut, we would not need them to make any sort of decisions.

 

[Mosin Shooter]

People make shotguns out of pieces of plumbing pipe so how is a EO going to stop it.

 

[Elkins45]

1) Did miss (forget?) that there was a letter for 80% kits. https://www.polymer80.com/CMS-Images/ATF-DetLetters.pdf
2) Agree. Not law or case law. Can change almost on whim.
3) Yes, good word to remember.

The bump stock people had a letter too...

 

[Aim1]

Biden is on the news now laying it out.

 

[Rule3]

I still do not get the ghost gun thing?? So someone makes a gun from a kit Just because there is not a serial number whats the problem?. They feel they lost some control?? Here in Florida there is not gun registration. Even a gun bought at a FFL has a record of that sale, but then it can be sold ten times privately and it is now a ghost!

Do they think that ghost gun owners will be leaving the gun at the scene of a a crime or for that manner a gun with a serial number that was stolen and passed through many hands??

Criminals do not obey the laws and do not have traceable guns.

They gonna get all the guns out of Chicago, NYC Baltimore, Detroit??

 

[BigBore44]

Well now that it’s happened, we can discuss it. Playing catch up like always.

 

[WestKentucky]

They claim a kit can be assembled in as little as 30 minutes. I want to know what 80% frame or lower can be finished, assembled, and be a functional firearm in 30 minutes. The dumb parts of laws and the actions of people to avoid those dumb laws are really starting to shine. The sad thing is that dumb laws are being addressed by dumb people with dumber laws all because the general population of the elected official pool is uninformed on the topic of guns in general and they have no desire to change that by studying. If only they would pass a law that before you can vote on or propose legislation that you be minimally competent and informed on the topic, but that won’t ever happen, thus we have the constant gaffes of high capacity magazine clips, shoulder things that go up, high capacity muzzleloaders, and the list goes on ad nauseum. Literally ad nauseum because it is sickening how many idiotic laws are on the books because the idiocy is sickening.

 

[GEM]

I still do not get the ghost gun thing?? So someone makes a gun from a kit Just because there is not a serial number whats the problem?. They feel they lost some control?? Here in Florida there is not gun registration. Even a gun bought at a FFL has a record of that sale, but then it can be sold ten times privately and it is now a ghost!

Do they think that ghost gun owners will be leaving the gun at the scene of a a crime or for that manner a gun with a serial number that was stolen and passed through many hands??

Criminals do not obey the laws and do not have traceable guns.

They gonna get all the guns out of Chicago, NYC Baltimore, Detroit??

The ideas are twofold:

1. The guns are avoiding the NICS check. That check is to slow down entry of new guns into the criminal market. So expanding the coverage of NICS is the goal. You can debate whether you support the initial NICS check for purchases or not.

2. Second, in solving a crime tracing the gun back to the origin sales point might enable to trace the gun back to how it ended up with the criminal. You can debate whether you think this is a worthwhile enterprise.

Anyway, that is criminal law intent.

 

[230RN]

Well now that it’s happened, we can discuss it. Playing catch up like always.

One of the virtues and at the same time one of the flaws of The High Road.

ThIs is probably off topic anyhow.

Me go now.

Terry

 

[DustyGmt]

If only they would pass a law that before you can vote on or propose legislation that you be minimally competent and informed on the topic.

You mean like actually studying the issue and being able to make factually true statements about a given topic before making decisions that impact untold millions?

That seems reasonable, you might be onto something. I agree with that.

 

[GEM]

Let's not wander - demanding politicians be competent would go through both parties like a tsunami over a field of snowmen and women. We get that - back to the topic.

 

[reddog81]

But it is designed as a brace, intended to be used as a brace and functions as a brace whereas a stock is not.

That sounds good in theory, but I have one and cannot use it in any reasonable manner as a "brace". Trying to strap the SBA3 on my arm makes it very hard to use. Unless you can shoulder the "brace" it's useless. There are hundreds of videos out there and it's rare to see one being used as a brace. Watching the SB Tactical video demonstrating how to use it is almost comical. With the brace strapped on you have to hold the gun at a cockeyed angle and shoot in gangster style. Shouldering the thing is the only logical way to use it. They did too good of a job poking the bear...

However the whole idea of making these braces NFA items is about as absurd as the product itself. If you're old enough to buy either a rifle or a pistol, you should be able to buy a short barreled rifle. The argument that a short barreled rifle is somehow more deadly is just silly. Any gun with a rifle stock is not easy to hide. Any AR pistol is a sizeable gun and not concealable in any traditional manner. The laws governing these items are nonsensical already and they are only going to get worse.

 

[TomJ]

From the article:
"Sixty days will also be provided for the DOJ to develop model "red flag" legislation that would allow friends and family members to identify an individual as a potential danger, thereby temporarily preventing the person from accessing a firearm."

Red flag laws are another concern. False accusations of abuse among ex-spouses or during divorce proceedings are not uncommon. I have no tolerance for people who abuse their spouses, but also have no tolerance for people who falsely accuse their spouses or exes of abuse. If they do this they need to include significant penalties for people making false accusations, but I'm not optimistic that they'll do so.

 

[CapnMac]

As these are all posed as Executive Actions, not even as authoritative as EO, this may just be one more red herring, something to not only fire up the base, but also to fire "us" up.

Much like all the wasted furor over HB 127, 1, 8, etc. that focused attention on the shiny thing over here while the other hand was in the cookie jar.

We need to keep our representatives informed as to our desires and requirements We may have to let up on arguing against specific Bills and instead remind the politicos that it's principle that matters.

Bump stocks were banned, then that ban was overturned, just because an executive wants a thing does not mean the thing will be.

 

[Elkins45]

They claim a kit can be assembled in as little as 30 minutes. I want to know what 80% frame or lower can be finished, assembled, and be a functional firearm in 30 minutes.

I’m pretty sure I had my Polymer80 faux Glock done in less than 30 minutes. Drill three holes and trim a little bit of plastic, then insert the parts. Truthfully I’m amazed the P80 kits ever passed muster as 80% because they feel more like 95% to me.