Bill would abolish gun free zones.

[Cal-gun Fan]

If it was stopped how would it exist?

If licensed carriers are not currently allowed to carry in these locations...

Critical thinking: You need it.

"Stopped" as in stopped in progress, I think you could have figured that one out with a little critical thinking of your own.

I did not specify a SCHOOL shooting, just a mass shooting of any kind at any place.

 

[kis2]

Cal-gun Fan, I'm just trying to make sure I don't misinterprut anything (that happens online ) ... is your problem the age of the people that could be carrying? That's an issue that would extend past school zones, and STILL wouldn't inhibit any mass murderers

 

[Warp]

Don't know what shooting it was but one was stopped when a student ran out to his car and got his handgun and stopped the shooter without firing a shot.

Appalachian School of Law?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting#cite_note-3


Unfortunately there aren't many good examples here because, well, as pointed out above it is illegal in most places...and even where legal it is almost always against campus policy and people don't want to risk getting fired/expelled. Or they don't even know it's legal because most people are not well versed in the law.

 

[M-Cameron]

I want my school to be a safe environment. I know that it will never be that, but I want it as close as possible, honestly.

And at malls I have Gecko45 to keep me safe.

so you are saying less guns = more safety.....?

i honestly cannot tell if you are trolling.......or if your opinions are an unfortunate result of having to live in California.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Appalachian School of Law?

It was a single student at a high school I believe. It was I believe two or more years ago that I read about it.

I want my school to be a safe environment. I know that it will never be that, but I want it as close as possible, honestly.

Gangbangers and such bring their guns to school already along with drugs, that gun free - drug free zone is working out for you isn't it?

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

so you are saying less guns = more safety.....?

i honestly cannot tell if you are trolling.......or if your opinions are an unfortunate result of having to live in California.

Why does it have to be that if I am not a total Tea-Party gun nut, I am a troll or have become plagued with liberalism from California? I am a student, and I just don't like the idea of my teachers or the janitors armed. Maybe the caliber of teachers in your neck of the woods is different.

I don't think that less guns=more safety. However, what if a teacher is complacent? What if they leave it under the overhead desk? What if one of the students happens to get a hold of it? Its not nearly as simple of an issue as you think.

 

[Warp]

I want my school to be a safe environment. I know that it will never be that, but I want it as close as possible, honestly.

And you believe creating a scenario where the attacking gunman (or men) are the only ones there with a gun will work towards this goal...?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

and I just don't like the idea of my teachers or the janitors armed

Why?

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Cal-gun Fan, I'm just trying to make sure I don't misinterprut anything (that happens online ) ... is your problem the age of the people that could be carrying? That's an issue that would extend past school zones, and STILL wouldn't inhibit any mass murderers

Kis2, I appreciate that you want to be clear on my point of view before making any judgments

I don't want ANYONE having a gun at my school. We have a police officer here and it is his job to handle that. I don't want one of my teachers trying to be the hero and stop the shooter, as that is not his job. We have lockdown procedures that we drill and those will be more useful than a teacher with a gun.

 

[Mike1234567]

Oh goody... the stuff is hitting the fan just like a family reunion. Keep it up, boys. This is fun to watch!!

 

[Warp]

I don't want ANYONE having a gun at my school. We have a police officer here and it is his job to handle that. I don't want one of my teachers trying to be the hero and stop the shooter, as that is not his job. We have lockdown procedures that we drill and those will be more useful than a teacher with a gun.

Sounds to me like you want to be one of the ducks in the barrel that gets executed point blank by a .22lr to the head like at Virginia Tech.

A lockdown isn't going to save you. Just ask the Virginians about that one.

Like I said before, having a good guy/gal present to shoot back is a good thing. Huddling in the corner under lockdown waiting for the police to come save you is not the best course of action.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Why?

Did you read the rest of my post...?

People make mistakes. Guns can get put down for a moment and forgotten. They can be picked up by someone who should not pick it up. I live in a nice area and go to a nice school, but there are a bunch of people who are not so nice there, so to speak.

I just do not see how a teacher or a janitor having a gun is going to solve the problem.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

So you have one officer, I would think that if hes that well known, he would be the first to go and than whats to protect you? A lockdown? A mass shooter would probably choose a time like lunch where everyone is nicely packed into one room with the LEO there also.

They could stop the shooter if they have their own gun, most shooters are suicidal and usually stop when confronted by equal or greater force.

 

[M-Cameron]

Why does it have to be that if I am not a total Tea-Party gun nut, I am a troll or have become plagued with liberalism from California? I am a student, and I just don't like the idea of my teachers or the janitors armed. Maybe the caliber of teachers in your neck of the woods is different.

no one said anything about "tea party gun nuts"......but your arguments fly in the face of blatant logic.

no one is advocating simply handing guns to teachers........its about allowing legal CCW holders to carry the weapons they already have.

I don't think that less guns=more safety. However, what if a teacher is complacent? What if they leave it under the overhead desk? What if one of the students happens to get a hold of it? Its not nearly as simple of an issue as you think.

what happens if i leave my gun at the mall?

what happens if i leave my gun where my nephew can get it?

...same logic....

im a student also......if my professors have a ccw permit....i would be thrilled for them to carry it.......

i have a CCW permit.......but i cannot use it when i go to school(which is every day for the majority of the day)........even on my commute, i cannot bring it with me..............so even if im not on campus, i cant have it because i will be going to campus.....or coming from campus

so for the entire week, i am force to go unarmed.....whether i am on campus or not.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Oh goody... the stuff is hitting the fan just like a family reunion. Keep it up, boys. This is fun to watch!!

Might have to break for intermission soon Mike, dinner's almost ready

Warp-We have fire-proof doors with Columbine locks on them. The shooter cannot just "open" the door. And I don't want some panicking teacher to start spraying bullets everywhere.

 

[Mike1234567]

Might have to break for intermission soon Mike, dinner's almost ready

That's a good thing because my sides are starting to split.

 

[Kendal Black]

Ok then, name one mass-shooting that has been stopped by a licensed carrier.

I suppose we will never know. I once altered a situation by being intentionally a trifle careless about concealment. I figured if there was any call from the CLEO, it would be on the basis of "Dammit, Kenny, what the hell did you do THIS time?"

But the call never came. What I did was go and order a soda while forgetfully leaving my cover garment in the truck.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

no one said anything about "tea party gun nuts"......but your arguments fly in the face of blatant logic.

no one is advocating simply handing guns to teachers........its about allowing legal CCW holders to carry the weapons they already have.



what happens if i leave my gun at the mall?

what happens if i leave my gun where my nephew can get it?

...same logic....

im a student also......if my professors have a ccw permit....i would be thrilled for them to carry it.......

i have a CCW permit.......but i cannot use it when i go to school(which is every day for the majority of the day)........even on my commute, i cannot bring it with me..............so even if im not on campus, i cant have it because i will be going to campus.

so for the entire week, i am force to go unarmed.....whether i am on campus or not.

My argument doesn't fly in the face of blatant logic, it flies in the face of your opinion.

I understand that guns wouldn't just be "handed" to teachers. But a lot of teachers I have met are not the most responsible of individuals, and I'd prefer them not to be armed at school.

Plus if they could, the Amnesty International club hippies would throw a freeking riot...

Maybe they could make pepperspray legal too...

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

no one is advocating simply handing guns to teachers........its about allowing legal CCW holders to carry the weapons they already have.

Teachers that already own guns and know how to use them.

So you have one officer, I would think that if hes that well known, he would be the first to go and than whats to protect you? A lockdown? A mass shooter would probably choose a time like lunch where everyone is nicely packed into one room with the LEO there also.

 

[Warp]

People make mistakes. Guns can get put down for a moment and forgotten.

Warp-We have fire-proof doors with Columbine locks on them. The shooter cannot just "open" the door. And I don't want some panicking teacher to start spraying bullets everywhere.

Uh...guns that are carried in a holster don't get set down. They stay in their holster. Or would you like to show us that people who carry a gun set it down and have it picked up and inappropriately used millions of times a year? Because, you know, in order for that argument to hold water the negative effect of 'guns being set down and forgot' would have to outweigh the positive effect of legal carriers using their guns in defense. Please tell me you don't really believe that to be true

What if you are in the library? Cafeteria? Walking between classes? Hallway? What if the shooter is in your room before a lockdown is done? What if he STARTS in your classroom?

You still think that a good guy/gal shooting back is worse than not. That is a shame. It really is.

 

[Justin]

Ok then, name one mass-shooting that has been stopped by a licensed carrier.

How about two.

The shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs a couple of years ago and the attempted shooting at the Appalachian School of Law are two examples where the perp was stopped by an armed citizen.

 

[M-Cameron]

My argument doesn't fly in the face of blatant logic, it flies in the face of your opinion.

fair enough

I understand that guns wouldn't just be "handed" to teachers. But a lot of teachers I have met are not the most responsible of individuals, and I'd prefer them not to be armed at school.

what about you....i am going to guess you are still in high school, so this may not apply......but assuming you had a CCW permit, would you feel more comfortable carrying it if faced with a violent shooter and no where to run?

 

[scythefwd]

Cal-gun - will a link to a stopped mass shooting in a church by a ccw holder work?

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

Remember - You are in school. Guess what, there are trained soldiers in your classes too. Some of the people in your school are reservists (I'll bet money that there is at least one US ARMY reservist attending) who quite possibly has more rounds down range than your dedicated officer. He has completed the Army Basic Combat Training, which I would assume you find acceptable for at least knowing how to work a firearm safely AND how to engage a hostile target. He may only be 18 years old to boot. You can argue the Army BCT is a joke... which for the most part it is, but it does teach you to engage instead of run. All branches of the Military except for the Marines accept the Army BCT in place of their own. The Marines down as they have a different set of requirements for passing and they don't get covered in the Army BCT. There is a split training option where you go to BCT during the summer between your sophmore and senior years of highschool. I'm assuming you are in college, but my argument even extends down to the highschool level in much rarer circumstances.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

There was that one time where a shooting was almost stopped but the shooter was wearing body armor unfortunatly, times for when the FiveseveN would be good to have with actual AP ammo.

 

[357 Terms]

I don't know how many of you have school age kids but I will have FIVE this school year ( and one due at the end of this month) I have no, NONE! not a problem at all with teachers who want to carry on school property doing so. I have always thought it ridiculous that the Lambs were not protected from the wolves. Soft targets are the most attractive to a the cowardly.