shotgunjoel
Member
My signature says it all. The Brady Campaign doesn't care a bit about us.
Brady Campaign submits gun control strategy to Obama transition team
- Thread starter Redneck with a 40
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Timradcliffe345
member
Sure we do. No americans are going to march into certain death against our military in the name of the 2A. Truth be told, if they come to confiscate the guns you are ALL going to turn them over. It is one thing to write out of your *** on the internet, it is another to put your money where your mouth is.
Times have changed gentlemen. We are no longer living in 1776 and we are not revolutionary soldiers. There will be no revolution. We should be satisified with the 2A rights already granted to us. Bottomline is that many of the proposed laws in the Brady document make a lot of sense. Accept the change that is coming. To believe otherwise, or to put up a fight, is futile.
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You make me sick. Take that "God Bless America" out of your info, because no red-blooded American would spread this defeatist liberal crap. There is ZERO justification for any law in violation of the Constitution of the United States, and any person, politician or otherwise, opposed to the Bill of Rights is a traitor. LE who obey unConstitutional orders, they're traitors too. Following orders was no defense at Nuremberg, and it isn't in America either.
Don't you tell me what I will and won't do to traitors when they come for me.
Joe Demko
Member
Who made you the arbiter of what "real Americans" do and do not do? FTR, I am more on your side than his. Also FTR, not everyone cares as much about guns as you do. Quite possibly, most people do not.
HeavenlySword
Member
Tim trolling again?
JImbothefiveth
Member
Yep, we all know there's been a huge drive-by bayoneting problem.
Some change I'm fine with, this isn't it.
We can vote, we can write our congresscritters. I don't think that's futile.
Golden Hound
Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2008
- Messages
- 778
Alright, alright, relax. There's truth on both sides of this argument. It's a complicated issue and it's definitely not black-and-white.
Nobody is trolling. A member in good standing with over 500 posts is not a troll. He may be expressing a viewpoint that is controversial, this is NOT the same as trolling.
The times have changed a great deal since the 2nd Amendment was written. I DO think that this amendment was intended to provide a safeguard against a tyrannical government, and I DO think that it is still relevant in that way. But there's no question that the balance of power is totally disproportionate now compared to what it was a few hundred years ago. I mean, the government has atomic bombs and helicopter gunships, artillery, psychological warfare and all kinds of things that even the best-armed population cannot hope to have. This is true. A revolution of riflemen against this kind of government power is impossible.
Guerrilla warfare is a possibility but, first of all, I think it's true that most people will NOT want to go along with it. Most people want security and safety for their families in the here-and-now, and risking their lives to fight the government is not something they are going to want to do. And more people will hand in their guns than resist. (Some people - the smart ones - will HIDE their guns and see what happens next, quietly preparing for the possibility of using them in the future.) The phrase "when it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up" is true in theory, but in practice, a spur-of-the-moment armed resistance to the government would end in guaranteed failure. That kind of thing would have to be planned over the long term.
This is a very important fact and it's something that we all should understand. If you go on THR every day and your friends are all shooters it's easy to develop a skewed perspective on the issue. Our guns are very important to US but, really, guns are NOT important to the average person. I think most people don't really know anything about them at all, beyond maybe hunting rifles or shotguns. In urban environments, hardly anyone even knows about those. So for most of America guns are NOT a priority. It's easy for us to develop a gun-centric view because it's our shared hobby and cause, but when you think outside of what amounts to a subculture, a niche of society, this is not a priority for most people. The majority will happily go along with anti-gun laws and absurdity like the AWB just out of ignorance.
If there was, in fact, a revolution in America, it would probably be (as it has been for guerrillas all over the world) more about explosives than rifles. Guns would be needed to guard hidden ordnance factories and warehouses, and to arm scouts who would go on recon missions, but guns would not be the most effective method of offense. They would be more important for defensive reasons. The revolution, if it ever came to that, and if it ever had a fighting chance, would be won with explosives.
Nobody is trolling. A member in good standing with over 500 posts is not a troll. He may be expressing a viewpoint that is controversial, this is NOT the same as trolling.
The times have changed a great deal since the 2nd Amendment was written. I DO think that this amendment was intended to provide a safeguard against a tyrannical government, and I DO think that it is still relevant in that way. But there's no question that the balance of power is totally disproportionate now compared to what it was a few hundred years ago. I mean, the government has atomic bombs and helicopter gunships, artillery, psychological warfare and all kinds of things that even the best-armed population cannot hope to have. This is true. A revolution of riflemen against this kind of government power is impossible.
Guerrilla warfare is a possibility but, first of all, I think it's true that most people will NOT want to go along with it. Most people want security and safety for their families in the here-and-now, and risking their lives to fight the government is not something they are going to want to do. And more people will hand in their guns than resist. (Some people - the smart ones - will HIDE their guns and see what happens next, quietly preparing for the possibility of using them in the future.) The phrase "when it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up" is true in theory, but in practice, a spur-of-the-moment armed resistance to the government would end in guaranteed failure. That kind of thing would have to be planned over the long term.
Joe Demko said:
This is a very important fact and it's something that we all should understand. If you go on THR every day and your friends are all shooters it's easy to develop a skewed perspective on the issue. Our guns are very important to US but, really, guns are NOT important to the average person. I think most people don't really know anything about them at all, beyond maybe hunting rifles or shotguns. In urban environments, hardly anyone even knows about those. So for most of America guns are NOT a priority. It's easy for us to develop a gun-centric view because it's our shared hobby and cause, but when you think outside of what amounts to a subculture, a niche of society, this is not a priority for most people. The majority will happily go along with anti-gun laws and absurdity like the AWB just out of ignorance.
If there was, in fact, a revolution in America, it would probably be (as it has been for guerrillas all over the world) more about explosives than rifles. Guns would be needed to guard hidden ordnance factories and warehouses, and to arm scouts who would go on recon missions, but guns would not be the most effective method of offense. They would be more important for defensive reasons. The revolution, if it ever came to that, and if it ever had a fighting chance, would be won with explosives.
CoRoMo
Member
I can tell. Just ban all firearms and the bad guys can't get them.
Ooops, now that you heard that argument, it probably makes sense to you!
Geez... this anti-2nd Amendment crap is getting old!
I want to discuss RKBA issues with people who believe in it, not against it!
Armed N. Free
Member
Hey Tim, do you happen to be Borg? "Resistance is futile. All will be assimilated". I, for one, took an enlistment oath:
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Would the President or Congress qualify as domestic enemies if they actively begin to dismantle or re-interpret our Constitution or deny us our rights under the Bill of Rights?
Here are a couple of good articles for you all to read (bothered the crap out of me!). The references check out - although I really wish you would prove me wrong
http://amomentintime.com/transcript.asp?AMIT_ID=2724
http://www.prisonplanet.com/two-more-us-military-units-assigned-for-homeland-security.html
Running from an oppressor just makes the pursuit more interesting. Standing in front of a rocket armed Apache waving your middle finger in the air while pointing to your AR with the other hand just bores the gunner.
Those kids in San Francisco found out what happens when you taunt a tiger. But, tigers can be taken with sticks and stones if you go about it in the right way at the right time.
I was raised by veterans and taught to proudly and patriotically serve and protect my country and I will gladly die doing the same if necessary.
CoRoMo
Member
Several anti-2nd Amendment fascists from the Brady organization have joined THR and are trolling through.
Wave everybody!
.
Wave everybody!
.
Timradcliffe345
member
I don't agree with what is to come. That doesn't mean it isn't coming.
HeavenlySword
Member
Golden hound, coromo, normally I hate using the T word.
But when somebody makes threads like these, I tend to remember:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=413934&highlight=change+heart
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=416637
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=410293
When he doesn't even define what sort of mental issues or explain why he has had a change of heart (AFTER many people have asked him), I must say, I smell a sleeper agent.
Paranoia? Perhaps.
But when somebody makes threads like these, I tend to remember:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=413934&highlight=change+heart
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=416637
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=410293
When he doesn't even define what sort of mental issues or explain why he has had a change of heart (AFTER many people have asked him), I must say, I smell a sleeper agent.
Paranoia? Perhaps.
Timradcliffe345
member
If the order is given to confiscate citizen's firearms, you have sworn an oath to obey that order. Are you telling me you would disobey a direct order from a superior officer?
12131
Member
I don't know who you are, or what you do for living, and frankly, couldn't care less. But, don't put your stupid words in ALL Americans' mouths.
Sorry, you have no credibility whatsoever.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. You might or might not have heard of this expression. Tyranny is tyranny, and it's the same now as it was thousands of years ago.
HeavenlySword
Member
As much as i hate o say this, i have to agree with the (suspected troll) Tim. For thousands of years the power was equivalent to army size. In the modern world, power is measured in tanks, jet bombers, missile systems- a ruler does not need the consent of millions now, he needs only a few hundred or tens of thousands
Armed N. Free
Member
:banghead:
Absolutely! Many of my buddies had to disobey directives / orders in Vietnam. Some got court marshaled, but hey, at least they could sleep a little better at night. Any order to use our military to confiscate guns as the Constitution stands now is an unlawful order and I don't have to obey unlawful orders.
Section 1385 of the Posse Comitatus Act states, “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”
If our "representatives" (used loosely) change the Constitution to allow our soldiers to generally police the populace and invite their UN buddies in to help out then "I'll meet 'ya ll at the river".
Robocop
Member
"If the order is given to confiscate citizen's firearms, you have sworn an oath to obey that order. Are you telling me you would disobey a direct order from a superior officer?"
Two problems with this:
1) Soldiers are sworn to protect the Constitution first.
2) Soldiers are also required to disobey an illegal order.
Two problems with this:
1) Soldiers are sworn to protect the Constitution first.
2) Soldiers are also required to disobey an illegal order.
ServiceSoon
Member
You can't have a defeatist attitude. Can you please do me a favor and search for the famous quote by Edmund Burke about good and evil?
Big Mike
Member
Holy cow, just read it...
Gaucho Gringo
Member
The Brady trolls infiltrate this forum to sow the seeds of discontent among us. It is a typical tactic of them. Get people wondering whether their convictions are worth standing up for. I know what mine are and nobody is going to take my guns away as long as I am alive. The others of you will have to decide which road you will travel. I can not imagine living in this world without my guns, having had at least one in my immediate possession for the last 46 years. Just my $.02 worth.
Robocop
Member
The Second Amendment is the ultimate insurance policy for our other rights. I know where I stand.
Redneck with a 40
Member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2006
- Messages
- 2,273
Hey Tim, lest you forget, we have a Supreme Court decision affirming our right to have guns in our home's for self defense. Until you get that ruling overturned and good luck with that, guns will never be taken from my home. Even Obama is smart enough not to touch guns, he knows its a political grenade.
divemedic
Member
Right. Don't those troops get out of their tanks and aircraft eventually? Do they get time off? Can they guard everything? The equipment you talk about is extremely dependent on the supply chain, which extends from the factory that makes each computer chip all the way to the armory of the unit that will employ the weapon.
Vietnam
Ireland
Warsaw Ghetto
Somalia
Recent events are replete with examples of goatherders defeating modern armies. American gun owners outnumber the American military 20 to 1.
Robocop
Member
At least 20 to 1 if not more. There also seems to be a general assumption that everyone in the armed forces would go with an illegal order.
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