If you survive the first year of shtf, there will be so many dead that there will be stuff lying everywhere, for the taking. So why bother to stockpile much of it? There will be diesel fuel in drums, the generators and vehicles so equipped will run on peanut oil or soybean oil. The Chinese have been doing that for decades.
Bringing Someone Back From The Dark Side
- Thread starter PJSprog
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I feel your pain and frustration and would not give in easily. If he refuses to consider any logic, well then, maybe he is too far gone to communicate with on this subject.
How about family ? Anyone else close that might have insight into his particular situation ? Is this type of thing common in his family ? Don't give up if he is a friend.
How about family ? Anyone else close that might have insight into his particular situation ? Is this type of thing common in his family ? Don't give up if he is a friend.
Pizzapinochle
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I don't really understand this? Compare "barbarism" today to the past. Yes, there are big atrocities and they involve more people, but worldwide... (talking rate not total, obviously there are more people total than in the past)
Less people are starving
Less people are enslaved
Less people die in child birth
More people have access to health care
More people have access to a consistent food supply
More people have access to clean water
Life expectancy is higher
Standard of living is higher
etc. etc.
In nearly every respect, the world is, overall, better off than it was 100, 200, 300, any number of years ago. Have there been hiccups? Absolutely, and that is what it pays to be prepared for, but the trajectory of the world has been pretty consistently AWAY from barbarism. There is a LONG way to go, but the trend is upward.
Mike1234567
member
Bad things are not always in our control. "Control" is a short-lived fantasy. There is no Eutopia or Eden. The best any of us can do, individually or collectively, is find balance between logical preparation and paranoia.
barnbwt
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Let's not turn the thread into a debate on the merits of the TEOTWAKI beliefs --that's not the question. All unhealthy behaviors and mental illnesses are described as "undesired or negatively impacting quality of life."
If the OP's friend/acquaintance's new wife is thinking she married a nutter, and he is devoting their precious shared resources to a dubious (or at least debatable) pursuit contrary to her wishes, it sure sounds like his actions are certain to be detrimental to his quality of life. If I cared to butt in about this issue on behalf of his wife (sounds like that's what's going on), I would let him know in no uncertain terms that his behavior is harmful to his family unit, and that the whole point of preparation is to avoid harm, to yourself and others with you.
"Not a whole lot you can do. It's like religion or belief in alien visitation. You probably won't talk him out of it."
This. It's a Catch 22 when trying to convince a believer; he will only seek out opinions/info supporting his belief, and reject any contrary ones as personal attacks. You can't win. Only thing you can do is point out the harm he is bringing down on himself and his family. And that he can have both, but only if he can tone it down a little to meet the approval of the wife.
The fact a recent marriage figures into this is no surprise to me at all. It is likely they are having some stressful times early on (maybe or maybe not related to his use of money and her thinking he's a nutter) and he is falling into this hobby/practice as a form of stress relief. If you believe people act illogically for logical reasons (Freud), you could make some head-shrinky claim that his prepping is an outgrowth of a desire to solidify the underpinnings of his household and protect it from dissolution, whose unintended side-effects are self defeating. And of course, it's entirely possible the whole reason he's into this at all is because he/she are unhappy with the marriage and that the stress of it is creeping into all sorts of unhealthy trains of thought and behavior. If you think it's a misguided attempt to make his family/marriage stronger, help him out; if you think it's the result of him festering over an unhappy union, stay the hell away and let them do their own business.
TCB
If the OP's friend/acquaintance's new wife is thinking she married a nutter, and he is devoting their precious shared resources to a dubious (or at least debatable) pursuit contrary to her wishes, it sure sounds like his actions are certain to be detrimental to his quality of life. If I cared to butt in about this issue on behalf of his wife (sounds like that's what's going on), I would let him know in no uncertain terms that his behavior is harmful to his family unit, and that the whole point of preparation is to avoid harm, to yourself and others with you.
"Not a whole lot you can do. It's like religion or belief in alien visitation. You probably won't talk him out of it."
This. It's a Catch 22 when trying to convince a believer; he will only seek out opinions/info supporting his belief, and reject any contrary ones as personal attacks. You can't win. Only thing you can do is point out the harm he is bringing down on himself and his family. And that he can have both, but only if he can tone it down a little to meet the approval of the wife.
The fact a recent marriage figures into this is no surprise to me at all. It is likely they are having some stressful times early on (maybe or maybe not related to his use of money and her thinking he's a nutter) and he is falling into this hobby/practice as a form of stress relief. If you believe people act illogically for logical reasons (Freud), you could make some head-shrinky claim that his prepping is an outgrowth of a desire to solidify the underpinnings of his household and protect it from dissolution, whose unintended side-effects are self defeating. And of course, it's entirely possible the whole reason he's into this at all is because he/she are unhappy with the marriage and that the stress of it is creeping into all sorts of unhealthy trains of thought and behavior. If you think it's a misguided attempt to make his family/marriage stronger, help him out; if you think it's the result of him festering over an unhappy union, stay the hell away and let them do their own business.
TCB
Deaf Smith
Member
And not 70 years ago several countries each murdered millions systematically. Nazi Germany, USSR, and Red China.
And not long after millions more in countries like Cambodia. And later Rwanda.
Even today genocide is right below the surface.
Less people are starving?
Less people are enslaved?
Less people die in child birth?
More people have access to health care?
More people have access to a consistent food supply?
More people have access to clean water?
Life expectancy is higher?
Standard of living is higher?
Hahaha... only in SOME countries. Others it is far less. And in the U.S. standard of living is going down and heathcare? well that's Obamanomics so who knows.
No, I'm not a TEOTWAWKI fan but barbarism is right below the surface.
Don't believe me? Check out Mexico via Borderland Beat.
Barbarism isn't even 600 miles from where I live.
Deaf
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danez71
Member
My input is.....
If you think youre close enough.. say something.
I wouldn't make it like an intervention. In fact, Id do the opposite.
I'd try to have a few conversations and try to better understand where he's coming from and counter with logic.
Tell him what you and all your other friends do - Spend a few $$ every month or something on "emergency preparedness" (earth quakes, tornandos, hurricanes whet ever is in your area) while continuing your life as usual.
You never know. You might get some ideas from him.... and he might come back into today from your ideas.
If you think youre close enough.. say something.
I wouldn't make it like an intervention. In fact, Id do the opposite.
I'd try to have a few conversations and try to better understand where he's coming from and counter with logic.
Tell him what you and all your other friends do - Spend a few $$ every month or something on "emergency preparedness" (earth quakes, tornandos, hurricanes whet ever is in your area) while continuing your life as usual.
You never know. You might get some ideas from him.... and he might come back into today from your ideas.
Mike1234567
member
Well... I "prep" in extreme "moderation". Maybe your friend is extremely OCD. Maybe he just needs to wear out that interest and find something else to obsess about... maybe pron?
Ivy Mike
Member
Is the guy religious? More specifically, is he one of the more evangelical "the end is nigh" type christians?
I guess I'm really just looking to see what he's afraid of.
AlexanderA
Member
Your friend is showing signs of serious mental illness. Be a true friend and help his family arrange an "intervention" to get him to seek a professional evaluation. He's ruining his present life to prepare for the remote chance of a future calamity. At the rate he's going, he'll end up alone and homeless.
BSA1
member
Do you know why dogs are man's best friend? It's because they accept you for who you are not who they want you to be.
Try being his best friend .
Try being his best friend .
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FROGO207
Member
I had a friend that had a sudden (within months) mood swing that affected all walks of his life. Some bordering on bizarre behavior. Then it was found he had a tumor in his brain that caused his untimely death at 33. I would try to talk your friend into going to the doctors for a "full health screening" to "see if there are problems he needed to address now while medical options are available" or some variation of this theme. It might just save his life.
Hollowdweller
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Good thread. Good point. Even worse you don't want the guys situation to deteriorate and see him on the news as some sort of mass shooter.
I think the opinion that his behavior could be related to some other, non end times porn obsession possibly marriage problems or mental illness is a good theory.
I also think the opinion that somebody should try to get him to engaged in some non end times activity is a good one. If he's a musician maybe that is an avenue.
However I'm not sure how much you can do since he's not a close friend. The one thing I would do would be to try to get everybody who knows him to keep tabs on him a little since if you look at a lot of these mass shooters it seems like a lot of the people who knew them had concerns but sort of brushed them off.
To the broader point I'm old enough to remember when the only military style weapons were actual surplus. I can also remember when the whole end times porn thing was mostly laughed at by gun owners.
I realize that less people hunt now so in order to keep sales up self defense and end time fantasies are a good way to sell guns. However sometimes these fantasies can be dangerous when embraced by people with a tendency toward mental illness and I believe could potentially, eventually lead to stricter controls.
I hope all works out for your pal but I'd keep an eye on him to make sure he's not going to eventually go off and be cited as a reason for more gun control.
mr.trooper
Member
Just ask him who he thinks is going to help him raise his kids, cook him meals, and wash his socks once the fecal material hits the fan?
Tell him keeping his wife around is in his best interest once IT all goes down.
Tell him keeping his wife around is in his best interest once IT all goes down.
Collector0311
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Kudos for wanting to reach out and help someone.
My go-to approach to situations that need TLC: come at him and ask him for advice for a prepper friend of yours who is in a suspiciously similar situation (not obviously his of course)
Subtly draw parallels and lead him to his own answers. Try not to preach.
If he's not bright enough or swayed enough to dig himself out of his hole, then it's not worth going any further into it with him.
Offer him a rope and a hand.
My go-to approach to situations that need TLC: come at him and ask him for advice for a prepper friend of yours who is in a suspiciously similar situation (not obviously his of course)
Subtly draw parallels and lead him to his own answers. Try not to preach.
If he's not bright enough or swayed enough to dig himself out of his hole, then it's not worth going any further into it with him.
Offer him a rope and a hand.
larryh1108
Member
This is not advice for the OP but a question in general.
How do we, any concerned citizen, alert someone to a potential situation. As others have mentioned, mass shootings or even murder/suicides of family are usually predicated by unusual behavior. Most say they wish they would have noticed or done something. So, what is someone supposed to do when he sees something that "just isn't right"? Do we turn our backs and say it's not your problem? Do we say he has the right to do what he wants to do? Do we alert someone who may be able to take some kind of preventitive action? What is the right answer? Obviously something is amiss.
Do we wait for him to kill his wife and kids and then himself and tell the news camera that he seemed weird lately? Is that the right thing to do because he has rights?
How do we, any concerned citizen, alert someone to a potential situation. As others have mentioned, mass shootings or even murder/suicides of family are usually predicated by unusual behavior. Most say they wish they would have noticed or done something. So, what is someone supposed to do when he sees something that "just isn't right"? Do we turn our backs and say it's not your problem? Do we say he has the right to do what he wants to do? Do we alert someone who may be able to take some kind of preventitive action? What is the right answer? Obviously something is amiss.
Do we wait for him to kill his wife and kids and then himself and tell the news camera that he seemed weird lately? Is that the right thing to do because he has rights?
Onward Allusion
Member
Tell your friend/acquaintance that FEAR is the biggest enemy; not natural disasters, bandits on the highways, civil unrest, natural disasters, or economic unrest. Aside from all the negative health effects of being in a state of hypervigilance at all times or have thoughts of "the-end" around the corner, it also destroys relationships. Everything in moderation. I'm not attempting to be trite here.
Enjoy the little things in life. Walks on the trails. Dinner with the family. Kid's basketball/baseball/soccer games. Go to church <or dance in a drum circle if he is so inclined>. Turn the freakin TV News off for a week. You get it...
I know what I'm talking about. I used to sleep with a loaded AK next to my bed.; carried everywhere - before it was legal in WI; an AK in the truck; guns stashed everywhere; had all kinds of prep stuff at home, in the truck, at the office; read the survivalist stuff; even seriously thought about joining a freakin' militia . . . This was 20 plus years ago BEFORE this prepper crap was in vogue!!!
As I get older and maybe just a tad smarter, I have seen that a person is only as strong as those around them. Sure, you need food, shelter, guns....etc..etc... but life don't mean a thing without family, friends, & community. Ask your friend/acquaintance if he thinks he can survive a catastrophe alone. Even if he could, how long before he goes completely insane?
Be prepared but also enjoy life while one is still able. All that prepping crap sucks away at life. Take it from someone who REALLY knows. Today is my 6 month anniversary for a quadruple heart bypass.
I hope your friend (and dude, he is a friend because you gave enough of a crap to post this to possibly help him) and some of the folks here think about some of this.
buck460XVR
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Your friend needs to have kids. Then his priorities will change.
This tells me he's not an idiot or mentally challenged. Just cause he has a new found infatuation may be something legitimate or brought on from being newly married. Selling things one doesn't want or need to fund another interest or hobby is not necessarily the sign of mental illness. I've watched many friends go thru a mid-life crisis where they sell the golf clubs and the Penguin shirts and buy a motorcycle and invest everything they have in leather, t-shirts tattoos and piercings. Three years later the bike gets sold and they get into healthy living and hiking in the mountains. They buy kayaks, snowshoes and fancy water bottles they can attach to their belt. T-shirts and jeans are gone and now everything they wear has a Patagonia or REI logo on it. Coupla years later the kayak hangs on the garage and the snowshoes become wall hangings. Everything they do revolves around road/mountain biking and they think @ 40 some years of age.....they still look good in Spandex. Now that's a sick individual.
If it's just expendable income being spent, it sounds like a hobby. If it's just guns and ammo the monies are being spent on and not 20 years of bottled water, dehydrated food and a concrete bomb shelter, than its about firearms and not really prepping. Lotta gun and ammo hoarding going on right now...just read the forum. No one thinks those folks are nuts. If close friends, family and the guy's wife cannot talk sense into him, why, as just an "acquaintance" do you think your intervention will change his life? If you are just an acquaintance, how do you know what his intimate life consisted of previously? Is his once successful business now failing because of his new found interest?
I know all kinds of gun owners. Some are much more intense than me about this hobby and spend every bit of extra cash on guns and ammo. Especially now. Some are more than acquaintances, they are good friends. Are they sick and need me to intervene? No, not unless they quit going to work, lock the doors and nail boards over the windows. While it is fine you are concerned about this acquaintance, I think there are folks closer to him that would be a better fix.....if one is really needed.
Even if we were Psychologists, the limited amount of info given here in this thread does not give enough information to make even a educated guess on this guy's mental state.
This tells me he's not an idiot or mentally challenged. Just cause he has a new found infatuation may be something legitimate or brought on from being newly married. Selling things one doesn't want or need to fund another interest or hobby is not necessarily the sign of mental illness. I've watched many friends go thru a mid-life crisis where they sell the golf clubs and the Penguin shirts and buy a motorcycle and invest everything they have in leather, t-shirts tattoos and piercings. Three years later the bike gets sold and they get into healthy living and hiking in the mountains. They buy kayaks, snowshoes and fancy water bottles they can attach to their belt. T-shirts and jeans are gone and now everything they wear has a Patagonia or REI logo on it. Coupla years later the kayak hangs on the garage and the snowshoes become wall hangings. Everything they do revolves around road/mountain biking and they think @ 40 some years of age.....they still look good in Spandex. Now that's a sick individual.
If it's just expendable income being spent, it sounds like a hobby. If it's just guns and ammo the monies are being spent on and not 20 years of bottled water, dehydrated food and a concrete bomb shelter, than its about firearms and not really prepping. Lotta gun and ammo hoarding going on right now...just read the forum. No one thinks those folks are nuts. If close friends, family and the guy's wife cannot talk sense into him, why, as just an "acquaintance" do you think your intervention will change his life? If you are just an acquaintance, how do you know what his intimate life consisted of previously? Is his once successful business now failing because of his new found interest?
I know all kinds of gun owners. Some are much more intense than me about this hobby and spend every bit of extra cash on guns and ammo. Especially now. Some are more than acquaintances, they are good friends. Are they sick and need me to intervene? No, not unless they quit going to work, lock the doors and nail boards over the windows. While it is fine you are concerned about this acquaintance, I think there are folks closer to him that would be a better fix.....if one is really needed.
Even if we were Psychologists, the limited amount of info given here in this thread does not give enough information to make even a educated guess on this guy's mental state.
I had some friends that thought I was crazy for stocking 90 days worth of food and supplies
(Beans n Rice basics with other things mixed in)
Once I got to 90 days of basic preps, I dont think about it. I have done what I feel comfortable with
To the OP, ask when the "stop date" is, or how long is he trying to prepare for
I have friends that keep 2-3 days of food on their shelves. This doesnt even meet what FEMA suggests. They dont have a single weapon in their home. To me, thats crazy. But...... thats their call
Some people have 1-3 years of preps...... I wouldnt call that crazy...... Just more than I personally think is neccessary
My point is..... its all relative to what level of paranoia you subscribe to
The good Lord gave me eyes to see. We should all wake up a bit.
Im not looking to fighting off hoards of zombies in a Mad Max world like some seem to fantasize about
But there are events that having a small storage that could feed my family and others if need be, could be of use
I hope that I am wrong
(Beans n Rice basics with other things mixed in)
Once I got to 90 days of basic preps, I dont think about it. I have done what I feel comfortable with
To the OP, ask when the "stop date" is, or how long is he trying to prepare for
I have friends that keep 2-3 days of food on their shelves. This doesnt even meet what FEMA suggests. They dont have a single weapon in their home. To me, thats crazy. But...... thats their call
Some people have 1-3 years of preps...... I wouldnt call that crazy...... Just more than I personally think is neccessary
My point is..... its all relative to what level of paranoia you subscribe to
The good Lord gave me eyes to see. We should all wake up a bit.
Im not looking to fighting off hoards of zombies in a Mad Max world like some seem to fantasize about
But there are events that having a small storage that could feed my family and others if need be, could be of use
I hope that I am wrong
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Absolutely. I've never considered myself to be a "prepper" (never been fond of labels to begin with) but I suppose some folks would label me as such. In my case it's merely a mindset that says history shows us what we can expect for the future, and history points to some pretty bleak circumstances. It's also approaching other aspects of life the same way I approach firearms ownership and self defense; from within the scope of personal responsibility. Sure, some folks might think it's weird that I've become interested in gardening and food preservation for this purpose, but some folks think I'm weird for carrying a firearm too.
Now of course, there is the issue of throwing the baby out with the bathwater such as your friend appears to be doing. He does need to realize that being married means he is not his own, and he needs to do what is necessary for his family in the short term especially if his wife sees detriment or neglect in that area. Most serious preppers merely incorporate techniques into their modern lifestyles as a means to make preparations for the future instead of creating some sort of alternate lifestyle that relies entirely on some future catastrophic event that may never happen. If you're preparing properly, you won't have wasted time, energy or resources if Armageddon doesn't happen in your lifetime; you and your family's well-being will likely have benefited in the long run regardless of the circumstances. But if you prepare at the expense of your ability to provide for the short term you'll be doing yourself more of a disservice than if you hadn't prepared at all (especially if things remain stable throughout the entirety of your life).
If he is very outspoken on the 2A, I would certainly be concerned about public perception in this regard if he's gone bonkers. Modern society has a hard enough time processing singular aspects of self-reliance such as the case with self-defense and firearms, let alone processing it as it ultimately applies to every other aspect of life. That's why I try to keep topics such as these well removed from one another (much like I do with politics) when discussing them with folks who do not exhibit that mindset.
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