Browning Buckmark Kaboom!!!

[marksman13]

Well kind of any way. A buddy and I were shooting my new (to me) Browning Buckmark today. I knew the mag was loaded, but I didn't think I had a round chambered. So, while pointing the pistol in a safe direction of course, I pulled the slide back to chamber a round. What I got was a KABOOOOM!!! Apparently there was a round in the chamber already. The extractor failed to pull the round out of the chamber and when the next round was stripped from the mag it slammed forward with enough force to fire the round stuck in the chamber. The pistol blew apart in my hands leaving a bloody gash in my trigger finger. The barrel appears to be fine and so do most of the big parts, but the extractor, a spring and some other small parts ended up on the ground. The pistol is headed to my gunsmith in the morning. I hope he can fix it relatively cheaply. I am always super careful, and I can't believe this happened to me. Thank God for muzzle awareness! My finger is pretty badly swollen and my new pistol is out of commision for a while, but I still have all my parts and pieces. Be safe out there guys. Always check the chamber on a rimfire before racking the slide. A moment of carelessness can get you hurt or killed.

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Glad to hear that you are alright.

 

[CountGlockula]

while pointing the pistol in a safe direction of course, I pulled the slide back to chamber a round. What I got was a KABOOOOM!!! Apparently there was a round in the chamber already. The extractor failed to pull the round out of the chamber and when the next round was stripped from the mag it slammed forward with enough force to fire the round stuck in the chamber.

I want to understand it situation. So when you pulled the slide back, then the KABOOM happened? And you didn't pull the trigger right? Sounds like a double feed gone wrong.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Out Of Battery

Sounds like the round being stripped from the mag set off the round already in chamber?

How odd is that??

Soft nosed second round strikes hard enough to pinch the primer on the one in front? Or is it more likely that, because the round in chamber halted the second round, that the firing pin was able to strike/pinch the primer on the second round?

But you said the FIRST round went off?

Hmmmm.

Also odd failure to extract.

Result: round ignites while chamber is mostly open = out of battery.

Since this is NOT an ammo malfunction, it sounds like the culprit is an actual pistol malfunction.

Mitigating factors would be things like a dirty action preventing extractor engagement (though I've never had this happen to me, even with max crud in the action).

 

[atblis]

Not odd

Also odd failure to extract

Rimfires do that all the time, especially with match chambers, dirty chambers, certain ammo, extractor not gripping (dirty), etc. etc. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the second round that actually detonated.

 

[marksman13]

Well, just got back from the ER. Turns out that there is a fragment lodged in my right index finger (yes, my trigger finger). The ER doctor couldn't retrieve it, so a surgeon gets to try tomorrow.

I'll try to explain in more detail, but it's hard to type with my finger all taped up. Basically, for whatever reason, there was a round in the chamber already. We had been shooting for while (maybe 150 rounds through this particular pisto) and apparently I chambered a round before I holstered the pistol. The result should have been a live round ejected and the top round in the mag fed into the chamber. The extractor failed to clear the live round from the chamber, however, and when the slide pushed the top round forward and into battery, the nose of the round struck the round in the chamber with enough force to fire the round. I believe the resulting discharge fired the round that was fed from the mag. Sorry if that sounds confusing. Both the round lodged in the chamber and the round that fed from the mag were discharged. The pistol was cleaned prior to this range session, and I don't believe that 150 rounds was enough to signifigantly foul this pistol and cause a malfuntion. It was basically an FTE that went horribly wrong. I will always take extra precaution when shooting rimfire semi autos. How many times have we extracted a live cartridge? I've done it more than once. I would have never expected something like this to happen. I consider myself very safe with firearms. Hell, I teach firearm safety and primary marksmanship instruction at my unit. I guess accidents happen, but I don't feel very good about this one. I'm just glad I had it pointed in a safe direction.

 

[Shipwreck]

Wow - glad U didn't get hurt badly.

 

[dstorm1911]

a dirty or otherwise stuck fireing pin in the forward position, the first round fails to extract the slide picks up the second round which comes to a sudden stop against the first round causing a slam fire due to the stuck fireing pin the second round fires the first round......... believe it or not I have actually seen this not once but several times with various military rifles one thats particularily bad for this is the SKS but I've also seen it happen with carbon fauled M16s too

 

[Trope]

It sure would be helpful to know what set off the rounds...

I've been fighting with my buckmark a bit to get it to run reliably. I was getting multiple failures to extract, failures to feed, and failures to eject each range session. I guess I'm lucky that was the only problem I was having. I think I got it working by cleaning it more thoroughly (including the magazines and extractor) and leaving more lube in it.

Thanks for sharing, and I hope you have a speedy recovery.

 

[marksman13]

Guess we'll see how it goes tomorrow morning. I don't know if I'll ever really trust this pistol again. I know it may not really be any fault of the pistol, but I believe it is. I checked both cases and neither of them show any mark from a firing pin. The one that was stuck in the barrel does have a rounded looking indentation. I am fairly sure that the round coming out of the magazine fired the round stuck in the barrel. Too many variables to say for sure though. I just hope there is no permanent damage to my trigger finger. You guys would laugh if you saw how small the hole was. My whole finger past the forward knuckle has been numb since it happened. If there is nerve damage I may never shoot as well as I once did. Too much to think about right now. I'll post tomorrow and let you guys know how it goes.

 

[FieroCDSP]

Glad to hear you're okay except the finger. That is a really odd sequence to have happen, and given the short but intense streak of bad luck to have it happen, be happy it stopped there. For reference, what kind of ammo were you using?

 

[marksman13]

Federal Auto Match. It has been a great bullet so far. My CZ 513 and Savage MKII really like it. This is the first time I have actually fired it in an auto pistol though.

 

[marksman13]

Surgery went well this morning. The doctor removed two pieces of brass casing apprx 1mm square from the bone in my right index finger. Don't know yet if there is any nerve damage. The finger has been numb since the incident. Haven't checked with my gunsmith yet, so I don't know how the pistol fared. I'll let you guys know more when I know more.

 

[newman32]

Wow. Sorry to hear all that - hope it all works out for you.

I was thinking about picking up a Buckmark myself - but now I'm not so sure...

 

[marksman13]

An accident like this is something that is much more likely with a semi auto rimfire. Just use caution. It was a freak accident and I don't know that it should stop you from buying a Buckmark, newman. I thought about getting rid of it, but I like it too much, and once the pistol is fixed it's going right back to the top of my favorite list.

 

[CriscoBamBamBam]

Well Stevo you wont have to worry about me wanting to fire it!

 

[marksman13]

Here is a picture of the largest piece of brass that the Doctor removed from my hand. This is the piece that was lodged in the bone of my right index finger. The other picture is the same piece, but look at how much of my hand is wrapped. It looks alot worse than it is.

 

[gudel]

where are the pics of the guns?

 

[AStone]

Dude, go talk to a lawyer about this.

If the extractor didn't take the round out ...

 

[marksman13]

I took the gun straight to my gunsmith, like a moron. I wasn't thinking very clearly at the time. I don't think I want to get a lawyer involved. Too many people are after the gun companies as it is. I am certain that the extractor failed, but lawsuits just aren't my style.

 

[AStone]

You are of course free to do what feels most appropriate for you. I understand the reluctance to involve a lawyer given the extremes often seen in our litigious society (e.g., suing over a lost pair of pants).

I, too, have no desire to bring more pain to gun companies ... as long as their QC failures don't cause me injury.

In this case, you are probably going to have some substantive medical bills. Perhaps you have health insurance to cover the bills. (If so, I'm envious of you; as a self-employed person, I can't afford health insurance.)

And more to the point, if this happens again, it could happen to someone without health insurance, and the injury could be worse.

So, by suggesting a lawyer get involved, I'm not suggesting that you sue Browning for millions. (But I would invite them to help with medical bills if this issue turns out to be "their" fault; of course, determining "fault" is tricky. Was it Browning or the extractor maker that was at fault?)

But I am suggesting that a lawyer is going to be able to at least rattle Browning's cage a bit louder than you can, to let them know that there is a potentially serious problem with the Buckmark that they need to address, and perhaps even pick up medical bills (unlikely, admittedly, without suit).

There are a number of lawyers on THR. Maybe one of them will join this thread and offer a legal perspective.

As for me, I was considering a Browning Buckmark Hunter. Even though I'm a revolver guy, and NOT a semiauto guy (see sig line), I liked the concept of a Buckmark.

Not now. No deal. Will buy a .22 revolver instead.

Good luck with your healing. And when you get that Buckmark "fixed", I hope you can live with the uncertainty of future extraction failures.

Nem

PS: added by edit: you - or someone - might post a thread about this issue over in Legal & Political. I'm curious to know where legal responsibilities for QC failures fall.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Strict liability is the law of the land, even though on a personal level I don't agree with the doctrine.

I too would be reluctant to sue or threaten Browning (and I am a lawyer!), but it makes sense to at least send it back to them rather than have your local 'smith work on it. They probably would like to know what happened also.

 

[tydephan]

It looks alot worse than it is.

What a sissy. That little piece of metal is what all the fuss is about?!?

Just messing with you buddy. Glad you are ok and the surgery went well.

Nemo's point is valid as far as preventing a future incident.

And I just gotta say, man, that you are handling the whole situation with a lot of humility and tact. Kudos!

Thanks for posting it as well. I've never even considered this happening in a rimfire before, but you can bet you best boppy that I will be mindful from now on.

Here's hoping for a speedy recovery of the feeling in your finger!

 

[Baba Louie]

Sorry to hear about the hurt'n.

Probably be a good time to practice up on your weak hand shooting, draw, etc... ya think? Lemons... lemonade... I guess.

A good attorney might be able to get you a new gun, a lifetime of ammo, pay your medical bills and cover his costs without really putting a financial hurt on a major business or two which, come to think of it, probably have some form of insurance coverage and, more importantly, would like to know about why their products critically failed... with an eye to making sure it will not happen again to others less understanding.

Or not.

At any rate, practice your left (weak) hand draw and shoot for a spell.

 

[marksman13]

Well, the dealer has agreed to pay for the repairs. Tri Care is going to cover almost all of my medical bills. I think I'll be fine as far expenses go. I don't have any desire to hassle with Browning over a problem that may not have really been any fault of theirs (I did buy the gun used). The gun will be reapired with no expense to me, and I will be repaired without much expense to me. I guess I can't complain too much. I never intended to bash Browning. I just wanted THR to be aware of the situation. Thanks for all the good wishes guys. I will find out tomorrow if there is any permanent nerve damage.