AStone
Member
Ah, now that does put a bit of a different spin on things.
Still, glad all is under control. Best healing to you.
And yeah, weak side practice is good ...
Browning Buckmark Kaboom!!!
- Thread starter marksman13
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Still, glad all is under control. Best healing to you.
And yeah, weak side practice is good ...
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Browning still needs to know
While you may not be inclined to pursue a "cause of action" against Browning, they still need to know what happened.
Photos and stuff would be good.
Someone at the factory should have a shot at discovering whether this is a design issue or a one-off fault.
I think you owe it to yourself as well as the arms maker: you need to have confidence in what you're shooting, and they need to know if changes are needed.
No need to be all adversarial about it. It looks like your actual costs are going to be covered.
However, manufacturers need the feedback, and you need confidence in the machinery that goes bang. People who make guns -- especially people who want others to actually BUY them -- are sensitive to stuff like bad reviews. Public knowledge of failures travels fast. Taurus is still recovering from their "bad product" years.
You're doing them a favor if you give them the chance to make it right.
If they elect not to, or if they get all arrogant and stuff, well then, the rest of us need to know.
Thanks for your reporting so far.
While you may not be inclined to pursue a "cause of action" against Browning, they still need to know what happened.
Photos and stuff would be good.
Someone at the factory should have a shot at discovering whether this is a design issue or a one-off fault.
I think you owe it to yourself as well as the arms maker: you need to have confidence in what you're shooting, and they need to know if changes are needed.
No need to be all adversarial about it. It looks like your actual costs are going to be covered.
However, manufacturers need the feedback, and you need confidence in the machinery that goes bang. People who make guns -- especially people who want others to actually BUY them -- are sensitive to stuff like bad reviews. Public knowledge of failures travels fast. Taurus is still recovering from their "bad product" years.
You're doing them a favor if you give them the chance to make it right.
If they elect not to, or if they get all arrogant and stuff, well then, the rest of us need to know.
Thanks for your reporting so far.
Spiff_P239
Member
Sounds like a VERY odd malfunction. Glad to hear that you and your digits survived with (hopefully) no permanent damage.
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marksman13
Member
Good advice, Arfin. I will try to email Browning some photos along with a description of what happened if I can snap some photos before my gunsmith gets started. I do not care to send them the pistol and wait for weeks tp get it back. I will also let Browning know what my smith's final verdict is. Thanks again guys.
simulatedjim
Member
I would package the entire gun and send it to Browning before your smith works on it. Be sure to enclose a letter of what happened and the fact you don't want to be without your pistol.
eastwood44mag
Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,027
Strange. Mine fails to feed more often than not. Never had a fail to extract, though.
Glad you're alright.
Glad you're alright.
jrfoxx
Member
wow, how's that for a freaky series of events and bad luck!? Glad your ok.
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marksman13
Member
Well, follow up with the doctor went well this morning. I can go back to work tomorrow. All the bandages came off today and the stitches come out Wednesday. Gunsmith called this morning and said my pistol should be ready by Monday. Another good day. I am going to email Browning today and ask them about this problem. I just want to know how often this happens and if they have taken any measures to prevent this type of accident. Thanks for all the kind words guys.
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marksman13
Member
Got my pistol back this morning. It shoots as good as it did before. Smith only charged me $10!!!
Can't ask for much better service than that. I'm getting the feeling back in my trigger finger. I think everything is going to be just fine. Thanks for all the concern you guys showed.
Can't ask for much better service than that. I'm getting the feeling back in my trigger finger. I think everything is going to be just fine. Thanks for all the concern you guys showed.
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marksman13
Member
Also, as update to the possible problem, the smith seemed to think the round in the chamber may have been out of spec. Maybe it was too wide in diameter causing it to stick in the chamber, or maybe the OAL was too long and the bullet engaged the rifling making it harder to extract.
elprofeloco
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 43
I too just bought a used Buckmark (a 1990 vintage in very good shape).
I had some strange failure to fires (no firing pin mark on the rounds which did not ignite).
Then while removing the sight cover on the slide, I noticed that the washers for the two sight cover mounting screws were missing. The Buckmark manual is very explicit about the importance of these washers.
What may have happened in my case (I'm guessing here) was that the slide was slightly too loose due to not having the washers in place, allowing the slide to misalign or "rock" enough for the firing pin to miss the cartridge rim occasionally (the trigger would operate, and the gun would go "click" on the misfired rounds).
It sounds like a stretch given the symptoms you describe, but there may be a possibility that your Buckmark slide would misalign in a similar way, such that it would not allow the extractor to operate properly.
The good news was I fixed my problem with two new washers from Browning at $1 each - very easy to install. Browning customer service was excellent and their factory parts were cheaper than Brownells; they shipped immediately. (Be aware there are some differences in parts for earlier and later Buckmark models). The Buckmark is very easy to work on.
I had some strange failure to fires (no firing pin mark on the rounds which did not ignite).
Then while removing the sight cover on the slide, I noticed that the washers for the two sight cover mounting screws were missing. The Buckmark manual is very explicit about the importance of these washers.
What may have happened in my case (I'm guessing here) was that the slide was slightly too loose due to not having the washers in place, allowing the slide to misalign or "rock" enough for the firing pin to miss the cartridge rim occasionally (the trigger would operate, and the gun would go "click" on the misfired rounds).
It sounds like a stretch given the symptoms you describe, but there may be a possibility that your Buckmark slide would misalign in a similar way, such that it would not allow the extractor to operate properly.
The good news was I fixed my problem with two new washers from Browning at $1 each - very easy to install. Browning customer service was excellent and their factory parts were cheaper than Brownells; they shipped immediately. (Be aware there are some differences in parts for earlier and later Buckmark models). The Buckmark is very easy to work on.
Master Blaster
Member
The Gunsmith replaced the extractor, extractor plunger and spring I would guess?
The second round went off and blew out the case just forward of the extractor, detonating the round in the chamber, or did that one come out intact? Were both rounds detonated, or only one??
I'm taking a wild guess here but it sounds like the extractor is what detonated the priming compound in the rim of the second shell, could happen if the extractor plunger broke off or came out somehow, allowing the extractor to pinch the rim and detonate the round.
I'm glad you are ok, it could have been worse.
I have two buckmarks, a plus and a bullseye, I have fired many thousands of rounds in them, the 5.5" plus is my son and daughters favorite .22lr semi auto.
The second round went off and blew out the case just forward of the extractor, detonating the round in the chamber, or did that one come out intact? Were both rounds detonated, or only one??
I'm taking a wild guess here but it sounds like the extractor is what detonated the priming compound in the rim of the second shell, could happen if the extractor plunger broke off or came out somehow, allowing the extractor to pinch the rim and detonate the round.
I'm glad you are ok, it could have been worse.
I have two buckmarks, a plus and a bullseye, I have fired many thousands of rounds in them, the 5.5" plus is my son and daughters favorite .22lr semi auto.
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marksman13
Member
Both rounds detonated and both were completely mangled and destroyed. I think the only thing he replace was the extractor spring that he cut from some spring stock. The extractor and plunger were fine. Don't guess I'll ever know which round set off which, but it I won't be trying to repeat the incident in the name of science! You can bet on that!
Kimber1911_06238
Member
So sorry this happened, I'm glad you're ok (besides the nasty cut on your finger). I've have many double feeds with my .22 and never had this problem. Good luck getting the pistol fiexed.
As a Buckmark owner I'm curious...where was your finger when the accident happened? I'm assuming it wasn't on the trigger as you were just racking the slide. Was it held along side the breach? I've done that so many times and now I'm wondering if one should keep all fingers around the grip below the trigger guard when racking the slide.
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marksman13
Member
Excaliber, you know the damndest thing is my commitment to keeping my finger off the trigger is what got me the pretty new scar on my finger. I figure a picture is worth a thousand words. This is how I was holding the pistol other than the fact that my left hand was pulling the slide back, not holding the camera. Is this a dumb way to do it? Maybe, I have since stopped this practice.
Attachments
I would have sent the gun to Browning just to know what exactly happened, in my opinion, a rinfire cartridge cannot be ignited by a leadbullet slamming into it. I had one round blown by an out of battery discharge on an AA G30 conversion and the brass had a hole but not even the mag was damaged.
Edited after re-reading original post.
Edited after re-reading original post.
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gandog56
Member
Never had it happen once in my almost 20 year old Buckmark. Never heard of it happening before in anybody else's Buckmark. I think it was just an isolated incident. Anything mechanical can and will fail.
Richbaker
Member
Most .22 semi-autos rely on blowback to help extract the empty case, when extracting an unfired round, it is very common for the "extractor" to not extract it. Usually because the bullet has slightly engaged the rifling or because the chamber is tight and fouling makes it tighter....this is prob'ly NOT a faulty extractor, just negligence on the part of the shooter! It is NOT the fault of the pistol OR the manufacturer...not worth suing over and it should be a loser, in any case!
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marksman13
Member
richbaker, do you mind telling me how this was negligence on my part? The pistol was clean and servicable. I never mentioned any intention of suing the company. Either the pistol or the ammo is at fault as near as myself and my smith can tell. I guess you believe that mechanical objects, ie: guns, never fail? I will be the first to admit that it was a freak accident and that it will probably never happen again. To throw around accusations of negligence without having all of the facts and not witnessing the incident yourself, is both rude and immature. Thanks for your uneducated opinion.
Sniper X
Member
P22's fail to extract an unfired round all the time, but I "look" in the chamber to see if it is clear before letting the slide go. I doubt however that a P22 slide could pop of a round in the chamber if let go without extracting the round from the chamber, but I wouldn't wnat to find out like you did, glad you are OK.....get a lawyer....
LittleLebowski
member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 129
It's not your fault. I got shot in an ND a couple of months ago and out of the hundreds of people who read my story, there was only one armchair quarterback, much like your situation.
My nerves are coming back from receiving a .45ACP through the arm, be sure you're hitting the B vitamins, particularly B12. I went from no use of my thumb at all to 95% recovered in less than 2 months.
My nerves are coming back from receiving a .45ACP through the arm, be sure you're hitting the B vitamins, particularly B12. I went from no use of my thumb at all to 95% recovered in less than 2 months.
It is not at all uncommon for Buckmarks (or .22s in general) to fail to extract an unfired round. It happens on mine all the time, thats why I always remove the magazine if I have to extract a round from the chamber, sometimes it takes a few tries to get it out.
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