Bulgarian Makarov? (pic)

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mick53

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Hi,

I did the search and most any of the threads I found here have to do with the "Circle 10" Bulgarian Makarovs, which I gather are surplus Military/Police Maks.

I just bought a Mak that is described as a "commercial" grade Arsenal Mak and I'm finding the info on them is scarce compared to those "Circle 10s."

Since this is the best gun forum around, I figure some of you guys will know about these Arsenal commercial grades. The one I'm getting has a 1985 date on it.

Here's a pic of the one that's on the way.

So whaddya know about these pistols?


And, as always, thanks for sharing the knowledge,

Mick
800x600-plum_zps6b83228c.jpg
 
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Mr Finn, it's a commercial Bulgarian Makarov. The Arsenal factory in Bulgaria made these for a couple years and quit production in 2007. Some of the Arsenals have nice finishes; in particular some of what were called "Special Editions" (this one is not a Special Edition). For collectors of military handguns they aren't particularly sought after but they are interesting and there are lots of Arsenal variants - chrome finisheing, squared trigger guards, etc. The search function on the second best forum will give you a lot to read on these.
 
I know what it is, North Bender.

I'm trying to found out how it compares to the Circle 10s and how the accuracy is and so on.

Some say a Mak is a Mak is a Mak. I hope this is true. My E. German Mak is wonderfully accurate and I'm hoping this proves true with this new one so I'm looking for other Arsenal Bulgarian mak owners to tell me what they think of their's.

And since your brought it up, yes, I do think this is the best gun forum around. I've been a member here about 9 years.

The forum is laid out very methodically and in a logical manner. it's not minced or parsed into tiny little subgroups.

Look at it this way.

You got a Mak question, you go to "semi-auto handguns" here. This is a good way to do it rather than just having a forum devoted solely to Maks, for example.

Why?

Because not a lot of people (comparitively) are into Maks.

But with just a general semi-auto forum you have all kinds of semi-auto fans going to the forum and some of them may have Mak knowledge.

Do you see my point, North Bender?

Now about these Arsenal Bulgarian Maks, who here owns one or has onwed one and how do/did you like it?
 
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I think North Bender's point is that if you're looking for info on a particular Makarov variant, you're going to get far more hits and useful information from a forum devoted solely to the Makarov, as you'll be getting all the guys who go nuts for Makarovs and thus have very specialized knowledge on teh platform, ie the exact kind of info you're looking for.
 
"I think North Bender's point is that if you're looking for info on a particular Makarov variant, you're going to get far more hits and useful information from a forum devoted solely to the Makarov, as you'll be getting all the guys who go nuts for Makarovs ..."

Perhaps. But I've been to the Mak forum to which he refers and it doesn't seem to be very heavily populated.

As a matter of fact, someone started a thread there recently along the lines of, "Is the interest in Makarovs on the decline?" or something akin to that.

This is not to say I haven't learned a lot over there. Quite the contrary.
But I see nothing wrong with going to another source to perhaps gain additional knowledge.

Now about these Arsenal Bulgarian Maks, who here owns one or has onwed one and how do/did you like it?
 
No, I didn't see your point, but I was only responding to what you wrote:

...I'm finding the info on them is scarce compared to those "Circle 10s."
Click to expand...

And not to what you were thinking.

The Arsenals are built to the same specifications as the military (Cirlce 10) Bulgarian Makarovs. All parts are interchangeable. Therefore they are reported to function the same and with the same accuracy.

Does that answer your question?
 
Why do you have your a** up in the air?

Look, now you're telling me, "Therefore they are reported to ... ."

So, reading between the lines, you don't own one, right?

(sigh)

Now about these Arsenal Bulgarian Maks, who here owns one or has owned one and how do/did you like it?
 
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the only Makarov I own is a Russian commercial in 380, but if you don't mind me asking about the grips on the one pictured. Who makes them and where could I find a pair? they look like they would be mighty comfortable to shoot
 
The pistol arrives Friday. I'll take them off and look. If there's a name or maker on them I'll PM you with the info.

Maybe the imorter, D.I.G. of Virginia Beach, VA could tell you.
 
Those grips were made by Arsenal to gain ATF import points - a thumbrest grip for some reason made the pistol a "sporter" or some such designation so it could come in country easier. So they're pretty artificial and not much sought after. Also they're only right hand friendly and they buldge a bit in a holster. Having said that, some folks actually like them.

You'll find them on Gunbroker. Please try there first - I'll sell you a pair if you send me a PM but it's not easy for me to do right now and i can't be a quick seller.
 
Thanks guys, I am right handed and don't mind the holster bulge. My Mak is a range toy and I would keep the originals for collection sake. Those just look like they might be fun to shoot with.

North Bender, do you find them comfortable?
 
North Bender said:
Those grips were made by Arsenal to gain ATF import points - a thumbrest grip for some reason made the pistol a "sporter" or some such designation so it could come in country easier. So they're pretty artificial and not much sought after. Also they're only right hand friendly and they buldge a bit in a holster. Having said that, some folks actually like them.

You'll find them on Gunbroker. Please try there first - I'll sell you a pair if you send me a PM but it's not easy for me to do right now and i can't be a quick seller.
Click to expand...

The thumbrest is to meet an atf width requirement for import.

I own an Arsenal "special edition"mak with a lovely polished blued finish in .380 auto (9x17)
Great gun especially with a set of rubber makawrap grips. Much like other eastern guns, it gives itself a trigger polish after a few thousand rounds. Still a heavy pull though but that's just the nature of the beast.
Shoots anything i feed it from eastern European ball to western jhp ammo.
Good gun once broken in.
 
Hello Clean,

Many posters have written about the amazing bluing on some of the Miltex Special Editions. I've ner had the privlidge to see one.

I couldn't agree more about the "self polishing" of Makarovs caused by a lot of rounds fired! Not only on the trigger but with the feed. If you have any Makarov that has fired several hundred rounds - it will feed all commercial ammunition without problem.
 
I picked one up brand new a couple years ago... got to love old shops with stuff collecting in corners. The fit and finish of it is a lot nicer than the Russian commercials I've owned. Shoots nice, just wish I could find ammo for it locally.
 
Flashcube,

I got bitten by the Mak bug a couple of weeks ago when I got a nice E. German in trade on a pistol someone didn't have enough cash for.
They added the E. German in lieu of $200. It's in 95-98% condition. :)

I got tired of going to shops and paying $18 -$22 plus tax for a box of 50rds of Russian ammo. And it is tough to find here too, just like it is for you.

I said screw it, and did the research on 9x18 ammo.

Found some stuff, Novosibirsk (sp?) LVE Sport ammo, also Russian. Good reviews everywhere. Not one bad word about it. Not one. Accurate, consistent etc. etc.

Anway, I ordered 10 boxes (500 rds) from AIM Surplus. It was $114.05 shipped, approx. .22 cents around as opposed to more than .40 cents around on average buying over the counter locally. Half price really.

Just a thought.
 
A Makarov is a Makarov. There's really no difference except for the large-capacity East German ones. They all have fixed barrels with polygonal rifling, and more or less interchangeable parts, and they're all extremely accurate. Some commercial Russian Makarovs are in .380 instead of 9x18. I'm not sure about the Bulgarians. Even these guns differ only in barrel internal diameter. The only bad thing I can say about the Mak is that it's a little difficult to conceal sometimes. Otherwise, they have an excellent trigger and excellent features.

You can get good ammo from Silver Bear, S&B, and Hornady. Hornady makes their Critical Defense hollowpoints in 9x18. Pricy, but if you want to carry it for self-defense, it's the best stuff. A Makarov will eat any 9x18 ammo without complaining. However, some of the other 9x18 guns such as the Polish P-64 are a bit more picky; the P-64 will not eat the Hornady ammo, but eats the Silver Bear stuff all day long.
 
Ugh. The only high capacity Makarovs were Russian Commercial Maks available when they were coming into the U.S. in the 90's. Also, Makarovs don't have polygonal rifling.

I have four Maks. Two military Bulgies, an East German and a Russian Commercial B-West import in .380, which has a satin nickel finish.

Your commercial Mak is comparable to the Bulgie military Maks with different roll marks. That's all.
 
However, some of the other 9x18 guns such as the Polish P-64 are a bit more picky; the P-64 will not eat the Hornady ammo,
Click to expand...
What you should say is that 'your P-64 will not eat the Hornady ammo'. My own Radom P-64 has never once hiccuped on Hornady ammo.....it hasn't hiccuped on any ammo. I know several others who have also had no issues with Hornady ammo in their P-64. My FEG PA-63 doesn't care much for Hornady though, but my Bulgarian Makarov cycles anything. I mostly shoot Brown Bear or Silver bear though.

And as was already mentioned, Makarov's do not have polygonal rifling.
You may be thinking of the CZ82 (Vz82) which is chambered for the 9x18 Makarov cartridge. But that pistol isn't a Makarov.
.
 
WardenWolf said:
A Makarov is a Makarov. There's really no difference except for the large-capacity East German ones. They all have fixed barrels with polygonal rifling, and more or less interchangeable parts, and they're all extremely accurate. Some commercial Russian Makarovs are in .380 instead of 9x18.
Click to expand...

Do the commercial 380s have poly rifling? I will have to double check when I get home but I think mine has traditional rifling

Edit to add I did not read the following post that clarified this. Sorry
 
The only 9x18 pistol that has polygonal rifling, to my knowledge, is the CZ-82. The related CZ-83 in .380 also has polygonal rifling.

As far as Makarov PM designs, the Russian commercial .380 (Baikal IJ-70, etc.) has standard rifling. The standard Russian, E German, Bulgarian and Chinese Makarov PM pistol (in 9x18) all have standard rifling, as well as the Bulgarian commercial models.

Other 9x18 east bloc pistols that were not based on the Makarov PM design also featured standard rifling - the Polish p-83 Wanad and p-64, and the Hungarian FEG PA-63 (the PA-63 had standard rifling both in the 9x18 and .380 variants).

My Russian, EG and Bulgarian Makarove PMs, as well as my P-83 and p-64, reliably work with any form of 9x18 ammunition I have thrown at them. They are honestly not finicky at all, at least IMHO.
 
wojownik said:
The only 9x18 pistol that has polygonal rifling, to my knowledge, is the CZ-82. The related CZ-83 in .380 also has polygonal rifling.

As far as Makarov PM designs, the Russian commercial .380 (Baikal IJ-70, etc.) has standard rifling. The standard Russian, E German, Bulgarian and Chinese Makarov PM pistol (in 9x18) all have standard rifling, as well as the Bulgarian commercial models.

Other 9x18 east bloc pistols that were not based on the Makarov PM design also featured standard rifling - the Polish p-83 Wanad and p-64, and the Hungarian FEG PA-63 (the PA-63 had standard rifling both in the 9x18 and .380 variants).

My Russian, EG and Bulgarian Makarove PMs, as well as my P-83 and p-64, reliably work with any form of 9x18 ammunition I have thrown at them. They are honestly not finicky at all, at least IMHO.
Click to expand...

My CZ 83 does not have poly rifling. I am fairly certain most (if not all) 380 CZ 83s do not
 
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