Bullseye Battery Recommendations

[SwampWolf]

I've been a Bullseye competitor since the early sixties. With feelings of consternation and dread, I've watched this great sport slowly lose popularity as the years grind on. To be clear, I have nothing against any other shooting endeavors and disciplines and participate in many of them myself, but I would hate to see the day when Bullseye shooting is no longer relevant.

I thought it might be fun and informative to see what some of the High Road Bullseye enthusiasts might recommend in terms of types, makes and configurations of handguns and accessories for Bullseye competition; both for today (optics and otherwise) and yesterday (irons and revolvers too).

Recommendations should include options for .22 rimfire, Centerfire and .45 matches. So, any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Col. Harrumph]

I shot bullseye informally with a bunch of old reprobates 25+ years ago. (I remember watching the Gulf War on CNN between strings. That was when CNN was an actual news channel.)

My .22 was a Model 17 that wore an 8 3/8" barrel. Centerfire was an Officer's Model Match .38. I still have both revolvers but haven't shot with either since I can't remember when (some guns you just don't get rid of). Big fat target stocks were/are the only mods. I didn't own a .45 then.

Maybe it's time for a postal match... but rather than mailing it in, targets could be photographed and pictured here.

 

[springer99]

I shot Bullseye for many years until the hand/eye coordination finally gave out. Our club is still very active, shooting outdoors in the summer and then retiring to 10m. air-pistol, indoors over the winter months. Today the guns of choice seemed to be either S&W 41's, Marvel 22conversions, or Ruger Mk's for rimfire, with 1911's (45ACP)taking the lead for both centerfire and 45ACP legs. Don't think anyone is using .32's or .38's for centerfire on a regular basis anymore. Today, Red-dots dominate in the area of sighting, with Ultra-dot Matchdots being the most popular.

During the summer, we shoot 1800 matches each week, with two 2700 matches during the summer. We also add an International match and a Hardball match during the summer season just for variety. Winter change-over becomes indoor 60round air-pistol matches. Guns for that time of year are mostly FWB 65's or 80's(yes, they're still very competitive), Baikals, and Steyr's.

 

[John Joseph]

Informal bullseye was part of my learning process. I had to get them all in the black on a 25 yard (or 50' reduced) bullseye with one hand before my mentor would let me try combat silhouette targets. Two guns that stood out for the task, in my memory, were the S&W Model 41 and S&W K-38.

 

[MrBorland]

I've watched this great sport slowly lose popularity as the years grind on...I would hate to see the day when Bullseye shooting is no longer relevant

I'll start by saying I mean this only to be helpful (rather than hostile), but the perceived irrelevance by the larger community is only part of Bullseye's problem. The best thing the Bullseye community can do to help itself is to do a better job of promoting their sport, and more importantly, a better job of being friendly and welcoming to and tolerant of the newbies they do get. IOW, there are way too many grumpy pants in the Bullseye community who spend too much time griping about other sports and insisting that theirs is better and ought to be more popular. They're definitely noticed and it's definitely a turn off.

FWIW, I've never shot bullseye, but have always wanted to. When I needed a break from runNgun shooting, I started practicing Bullseye with my VQ-tuned MkIII, but decided to shoot High Power Rifle for a season instead. I'd still like to give Bullseye a whirl someday, and I'd likely start off with my MkIII and an UltraDot. I love revolvers, so it'd be fun to break out the ol' iron-sighted K22 and K38 as well.

 

[Laphroaig]

FWIW, I've never shot bullseye

If I may ask, how did you come about your opinion which is quite negative? I must admit I've only been competing for about 3 years. Mostly weekly club league matches and a few leg matches at Camp Butner a couple of years ago. Virtually everyone has been super friendly, helpful, and just good people that are typical of the shooting sports. I've never experienced any of the negatives that you quote. I'm sure there are a few jerks out there that I just haven't met yet, but tell me one activity that there aren't.

I remember a recent post in this forum that offered a similar negative opinion of high power rifle competition. I can't say I've experienced many A-holes in that sport either.

I think bullseye pistol, high power rifle, and like sports which shoot at a bullseye target are not popular with the younger generation. Juniors and young adults are definitely a rarity and seem to have taken to the action oriented shooting sports or simply abandoned shooting all together.

Some older people may seem like they are grumpy. Maybe they are just tired of all the BS. Get over it, its not personal.

 

[MrBorland]

Get over it, its not personal

And yet, the sport is dying.

People have gotten over it...and they've moved on to other shooting sports. Yes, some of it is that action sports have become "cooler", but that ain't all of it.

At any rate, all this is off-topic for this thread, so I'll leave it be at this point. Good luck to you in your future shooting endeavors

 

[SwampWolf]

I'll start by saying I mean this only to be helpful (rather than hostile), but the perceived irrelevance by the larger community is only part of Bullseye's problem. The best thing the Bullseye community can do to help itself is to do a better job of promoting their sport, and more importantly, a better job of being friendly and welcoming to and tolerant of the newbies they do get. IOW, there are way too many grumpy pants in the Bullseye community who spend too much time griping about other sports and insisting that theirs is better and ought to be more popular. They're definitely noticed and it's definitely a turn off.

FWIW, I've never shot bullseye, but have always wanted to.

For somebody who has "never shot bullseye but have always wanted to", you seem to think you know a lot about the Bullseye "community" at large. As I said earlier, I have competed in Bullseye matches since the early sixties and have also been involved in many other very different shooting disciplines over the years, including lots of "combat/tactical" practice/training/competing, trap shooting and I'm starting to get my feet wet in "Cowboy Action". If you look hard enough, I suppose you can find disagreeable people in any shooting endeavor but it's been my experience that most shooters, including Bullseye competitors, are friendly and helpful to new people to the sport.

It's unfortunate that your experience with Bullseye shooters has been so negative. At the risk of being called a grumpy pants, my suggestion is for you to find a different place to get involved with Bullseye shooting because, in my experience, the place(s) you've been at are decidedly atypical in the intolerant and disrespectful behavior you've given notice of and that has turned you off so much.

Oh, and just to reinforce the apparently conceited attitude some of us have about our passion that you've reported noticing, in my opinion, the sport of Bullseye shooting "ought to be more popular" because, well, it is better.

But just to be clear, I started this topic because I thought it might be "fun and informative" to talk about the guns and equipment that Bullseye shooters use and recommend. I certainly didn't intend for the discussion to be a platform for malcontents to address their many grievances about the sport and, if that's what some seem to think was my purpose because I lamented its apparent decline in popularity (as an aside, really), I apologize.

 

[WestKentucky]

I tried to get into bullseye a few years back but very quickly ran into equipment snobs who turned me off to that club and I haven’t had much interest since. Being an asthmatic bullseye is one of a select few games I could realistically compete in without issues, but I just don’t care for it much since the snobs ruined it for me. Apparently a Taurus revolver which put a Python in its place is not worthy of gracing their shooting range, and neither was a $225 smith 22a that was competitive with the volquartzen rugers. Didn’t have and don’t care to buy a .45 to which nobody would accept or understand since I would rather not buy a gun to dedicate to only one type of shooting (since I despise 45acp for all other purposes).

Now I would jump in with a Dan Wesson .357 or the witness limited 10mm I keep saving for to no avail. I would buy a Ruger 22 though. Still no .45 but if I could use my Contender I would buy the barrels. I might use the contender for all of it with different barrels.

 

[ATLDave]

I think bullseye's big problem is that is basically requires people to shoot the "wrong" way. What do I mean by that? I mean that, free of the constraints of arbitrary game rules, nobody would teach using just one hand to make very difficult/precise shots. Heck, even in the run-n-gun games, the few portions of stages that require one-handed shooting are generally the subject of grumbling by most of the participants. When bullseye was developed, one-handed pistol shooting was still standard practice/training in the "real worId," but technique has evolved. I think if bullsesye wanted to really materially revive its popularity, allowing participants the freedom to use objectively-superior technique would probably be essential. I understand that isn't very likely because it would fundamentally upend the game for all the people who are currently invested in it, and therefore probably shouldn't be done. I just think that the inability to make that change means there's very, very little chance of bullseye getting much more popular than it is right now.

That said, I am in absolute awe of the ability of good bullseye shooters to make tiny groups at serious distances, and especially in light of the technique restrictions. Those who do it well have an incredible skill that I will never posses. The gear is also interesting, in the same way that benchrest rifles are interesting to me - gear designed for accuracy with pretty much no other considerations.

Sorry if this is off-topic, and especially if it is perceived as being negative towards BE or its participants... that's definitely not my intent. Just a little musing about what I see as a very large contributing factor to BE's perception as an "old fashioned" and anachronistic game.

 

[Slamfire]

I am having a great time shooting Bullseye, it is difficult, I don't know if allowing shooters to shoot two handed would increase participation. It would make shooting easier. It has taken several years of shooting but now I am shooting the occasional clean with the 22 lr.

I have been installing UltraDot's, per advice from the other shooters. I think a 24 mm is about right, though I have a 30mm on my Les Baer.

This Les Baer Wadcutter is ready from the factory and shoots better than I can:



Many of the good shooters have custom 1911's, I have no idea where they got the things. Last Bullseye match, the guy I scored made his own. He had a machine shop in the basement. This is his M1911:



Few shooters use anything but a 1911 for the centerfire and 45 ACP stage.

The guy with the machine shop in the basement was using one of these as a 22 lr



This is a very expensive 22lr, he claimed the recoil reduction features of this pistol did reduce recoil.

There are a lot of Ruger 22lr's on the firing line. Most of the shooters using them have installed Volquartsen parts, most commonly a Volquartsen trigger. The Ruger MKII is a very accurate and reliable pistol. The guy on my right, at the last match, was totally out shooting me with his Ruger MKIII. He had converted it back to a MKII configuration with Volquartsen parts.

This is his pistol:




I was able to buy a S&W M46 and I have been using it preferentially at indoor Bullseye and in 2700 Bullseye as the 22lr pistol. The S&W M41 is about the second most common factory 22lr on the firing line, I think I have seen more Rugers, its a toss up.



Most of the Master class shooters are using a 1911 frame with a 22 lr upper. They do it so they can shoot the same pistol configuration when they shoot their 45 ACP.

I seldom see a revolver on the firing line. They are out there, but they are a lot harder to shoot well in timed fire and rapid fire. It is rare to see someone using iron sights. I am an older person and I can't see irons with any clarity, and that is true for most shooters over 40.

 

[SwampWolf]

When bullseye was developed, one-handed pistol shooting was still standard practice/training in the "real worId," but technique has evolved. I think if bullsesye wanted to really materially revive its popularity, allowing participants the freedom to use objectively-superior technique would probably be essential.

I think a lot of folks don't appreciate or understand why some of us like Bullseye shooting so much. Bullseye, like most other shooting sports, is basically a game; it's not meant to be especially relevant when it comes to "real world" gunplay needs. Bullseye is supposed to be difficult and the rules (like shooting with only one hand) are intended to keep it that way. Kids who grew up being entertained with video games and such are hard-wired for shooting games that knock over bowling pins and make clanging sounds on steel targets. Punching holes in paper targets will always be boring to some but that doesn't mean that some of us are best satisfied by trying to kiss an X with a well-aimed wadcutter.

The most demanding shooting I've ever done is standing at the fifty yard line at Camp Perry, aiming a handgun with one hand and using iron sights during the "slow fire" stage, while the winds off Lake Erie are pushing me around as I'm squeezing the trigger. For those that don't think Bullseye competition has any relevance in today's world, I will make this argument: I don't think there's any shooting discipline around that is any better suited for teaching new shooters the basics of being competent with a handgun. You will not hit the bullseye of a target with a pistol unless you address basic shooting protocols: sight alignment, trigger squeeze, breath control, proper stance and follow-through.

Bullseye shooting is a great starting point for learning the A B Cs of shooting. From there, you can go anywhere and everywhere your shooting interests take you but you will always be able to call on the building blocks you first learned in the great sport of Bullseye.

 

[ATLDave]

Swamp’, I don’t disagree with any of that. I totally get that the enforced style is, at this point, about making it hard. I’m just pointing out that this enforced difficulty limits broad appeal - I am NOT saying that anyone who likes it that way needs to change their taste!

I like golf. There are a lot of rules in golf that exist just to make the game more challenging. Golf is in a minor bit of a struggle right now in terms of attracting players, and the difficulty adds to that problem. I don’t want to make a bunch of changes to golf in response. But I can still objectively assess that the difficulties - some intrinsic, some imposed by rule - make it a harder sell. The game is great as-is; the current nature of the game poses problems in terms of popularity. Those two statements are both true.

You and I may both have to decide whether the popularity problems of our games are EXISTENTIAL. If not, then we just should probably accept declining popularity and keep the game as is.

 

[SwampWolf]

I seldom see a revolver on the firing line. They are out there, but they are a lot harder to shoot well in timed fire and rapid fire. It is rare to see someone using iron sights. I am an older person and I can't see irons with any clarity, and that is true for most shooters over 40.

Some great looking pistols you have there, Slamfire. I still shoot using only irons and am first to concede that at my age, there aren't anymore trophies in my future. But I still love the the competition and enjoy still using the implements of a much earlier age. I shoot the .22 stages mostly with a Smith Model 41; sometimes with a Browning Medalist or a Ruger MKII Government and occasionally with a Smith Model 617 revolver. Centerfire stages are addressed with a Smith Model 52 auto or a Colt Officers Model Special or a Smith .38 Masterpiece revolver. A Colt Gold Cup auto or a Smith Model 1955 Target revolver is used for the .45 stage.
Maybe when I get older I'll try those new-fangled "dot" optics.

 

[SwampWolf]

I like golf. There are a lot of rules in golf that exist just to make the game more challenging.

It's been said that golf is a good walk spoiled.

I appreciate all of what you said and the golf analogy is spot-on. If we wanted either sport (Golf/Bullseye) to be less difficult we could always change the rules so we could get closer to the "target". Of course, in golf you can already use both hands...

 

[WestKentucky]

Swamp is onto something. It is intended to be a challenge, and when we accomplish a challenging task there is the natural reward of fulfillment and pride. What real world value comes from knowing how to put a 2 inch ball in a 4 inch hole with a fancy 4 ft stick with a crooked end? What real world value comes from putting a rubber ball into a bushel basket that is 10 ft off the ground? It's about competition, fulfillment, and pride.

My personal favorite thing to do is ring steel at long range, but to do that takes skill with the equipment I use. Nothing gets me going like ringing steel with a pistol when a guy on the line is struggling to ring the same target with a rifle. Yes it's a jerk move, yes it's showing off a bit, but I have worked hard for my shooting ability and I like to show it off occasionally.

 

[peacemaker45]

I started playing with bullseye a few years ago. Only shot a few matches, but did a lot of my practice that way for a while. I shot a Volquartsen-triggered Ruger MK II .22/45, and an STI Lawman 5.0 that's normally my USPSA Single Stack gun. Both with irons. Most of the guns I saw at the matches I saw were Rugers or S&W 41s for the .22, and custom 1911s for the CF and .45 stages. Most with dots.

If I had time, budget, decided to chase that bird again, I'd probably want a steel framed, fluted barrel Ruger 22, (the balance is funny, with no weight in the hand. Feels like the barrel wants to hold, but the grip floats all around under it.) with a nice VQ trigger, and I developed a yen for a Clark Custom Hardball. The STI didn't seem to suffer in accuracy, (it is a NICE gun,) but the fiber optic front sight just didn't play nice with black circles. I doubt I'd go for the scoped, custom gripped specialty guns, as I like my shooting to cross pollinate with other shooting. But I like being competitive, too, so it's hard to say.

 

[Laphroaig]

When I wanted to try shooting bulleye several years ago, I borrowed my sons standard Mark III, pencil barrel and fixed sights. Not one person gave a negative comment on my choice of equipment, and actually it shot as well as I did.

My rimfire pistols until recently have been a Ruger Mark III 22/45 and a High Standard Victor, both with dots. I never could master either consistently. A buddy is loaning me his Marvel 22 upper and I like that better. Its mounted on a Springfield 1911 Milspec that I had the trigger worked on.

My centerfire is a Springfield Range Officer with Utradot, trigger job from the same smith. I shoots better than I do. Using the 22 conversion has seemed to improve my scores in both.

On our line, many Model 41's, several Rugers, and a couple 22 conversions. Centerfires are more varied. 1911's both 45's and 38's, a few Pardini's, one guy shoots revolvers and posts some of the top scores every week. A few guys still shoot opens but dots prevail.

I agree allowing 2 handed shooting would add some relevance to the sport. Even so, our league is comprised of 6 clubs, and I bet there are close to 100 registered shooters. Its not entirely dead yet!

 

[Varminterror]

Some older people may seem like they are grumpy. Maybe they are just tired of all the BS. Get over it, its not personal.

Anyone else seeing the irony here?

 

[Charliefrank]

I shot bullseye for several years. You didn't see any form of optic sights back then. I'm not sure the club still has a team anymore. Interest started waning in the early to mid 80's. I used a S&W model 41 with custom made oversized grips and glass rod trigger. Iron sights. I sold the pistol off some years ago but still have the homemade range box with spotting scope attached.

 

[Pete D.]

I like Bullseye match shooting.
This comment is spot on:

The most demanding shooting I've ever done is standing at the fifty yard line at Camp Perry, aiming a handgun with one hand and using iron sights during the "slow fire" stage, while the winds off Lake Erie are pushing me around as I'm squeezing the trigger. For those that don't think Bullseye competition has any relevance in today's world, I will make this argument: I don't think there's any shooting discipline around that is any better suited for teaching new shooters the basics of being competent with a handgun. You will not hit the bullseye of a target with a pistol unless you address basic shooting protocols: sight alignment, trigger squeeze, breath control, proper stance and follow-through.

Absolutely.
I will be at Camp Perry for the Nationals again this year....hoping for good weather. Last year we shot in the wind and rain on the first day.
I am shooting .22 only this year; some what ironically, i will be shooting a Nelson conversion on a Colt 1911 frame.
Never have met with any of the snobs mentioned in this thread. Never have met with anyone who commented on the brand of gun someone was shooting. I doubt whether most shooters on the line even notice whether a person is shooting a Taurus or a Python.
Rugers have been mentioned a lot in this thread. I started with a Ruger Mk.II, Went to a High Standard Victor. Did a Volquartsen conversion on the Ruger. Now I shoot the Nelson. I only see Rugers on the line occasionally nowadays. I shall have to take a closer look at the line when I am at Perry in July.
Pete

 

[SwampWolf]

I shall have to take a closer look at the line when I am at Perry in July.

Let us know what you see-it's always interesting to know which shootin' irons are "on the line". I might finally be a mite too old and infirm to compete at Camp Perry and will miss it this year for sure-but I'm still plenty young enough to shoot!

 

[Snaktail]

A couple of years ago I shot Bulleye .22 and .45 in the Arizona Senior Olympics. I had been shooting silhouette for a couple of years and had forgotten how challenging the 25 yard match was. I did awful in the .22 match and took 3rd in the centerfire match with a Kimber .45.
It was fun and we all had a great time. I shot two pistol matches, the smallbore 3-position match, trap and would have shot more, but I simply didn't have the guns.
When I moved back to Texas I thought I'd find the same here - but, no luck. Darn, those were fun matches.
All I can find locally is run and shoot stuff...not my thing.
Michael

 

[SwampWolf]

All I can find locally is run and shoot stuff...not my thing.

Lots of newer shooters insist on having targets fall over or make a noise when they shoot a gun. Nothing wrong with that and I do a lot of it myself but, for me, there's nothing more satisfying than seeing my bullets crowding the X-ring.
Welcome to The High Road, Snaktail.

 

[Snaktail]

I shoot Silhouette for the instant feedback affect. For the past six years I've been involved in Lever Action Silhouette...gun goes "bang", target goes "clang" and you score a point. No running, ducking, or reloading on the fly. Shoot iron-sights off-hand at targets 40, 50, 75 & 100 meters/yards away - you have to knock the target over to score it. A hit that doesn't knock it over is a miss.
Not bullseye, but matches are easier to find.