Bush’s approval rating falls to new low

[GunGoBoom]

I doubt this is a war for Israel. They have proven themselves quite effective when they go to war in the ME.

Well, you're correct - my bad. The war is not "for Israel". It IS *for* getting the votes of rich and influential American Jewish voters and (more importantly) campaign contributors, who sympathize (understandably) with their homeland, and want to help said homeland all that they can, whether they 'need' it or not. That, and retribution for trying to kill his dad. And possibly to help a few oil company exec buddies make some bank helping them 'rebuild' over there.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention (but others did), that he has failed miserably in his stated goal (which I strongly support) of getting Osama "dead or alive". He, as commander in chief of the armed forces, AND the head of State - foreign affairs - IS the person to hold responsible.

 

[Sean Smith]

Well, you're correct - my bad. The war is not "for Israel". It IS *for* getting the votes of rich and influential American Jewish voters

Oh, those crazy Jews! Can't have a conspiracy without 'em, can't have pork ribs with 'em!

 

[joab]

Sorry CAnnoneer I forgot the damn smiley again or
Take your pick I couldn't decide which one

 

[joab]

What, you don't believe me? Show me an elephant in a strawberry patch.

Since elephants don't hide in strawberry patches, is the connection you are trying to make that terrorists don't attack America.

I've never seen or heard of (And doubt anybody ever has)an elephant hiding in a strawberry patch, but I have witnessed terrorists attacking America

 

[Monkeyleg]

shadow33, it's amazing that you show up on THR and begin spewing the usual Democrat line about Bush: he's owned by Halliburton, he can't think for himself, and that he's been on vacation while everything is going wrong.

The comment about Christ was pretty over the top.

Before we start blaming everything including lack of toilet facilities in the Superdome on GW, let's look at what happened: a category 5 hurricane was headed to NO. What did local government do? What did state government do?

The breaks in the flood barriers and levee's were a surprise, but not unexpected. And that's when things really broke down.

How long should it reasonably take to evacuate 300,000 to 500,000 people? Two days? Three? Five? A hundred?

The looting was to be expected. The police quitting their jobs wasn't. Ditto the gangbanger types shooting at rescue helicopters and vehicles.

This is much, much worse than 9/11. Victims there just had to walk a few dozen blocks to get back to civilization. Here, people have to go all the way to Houston.

It's been nearly a hundred years since we've seen a catostrophe of these proportions.

I wonder: back during the San Francisco earthquake, did everybody start blaming the president?

 

[R.H. Lee]

Bush's 'approval rating' was already dropping before the hurricane. The psycholibs have been pounding on him ever since he was elected; not since Nixon has a president been so demonized. However, many of us who previously supported him are not so sure now. We are disappointed at best, and some of us feel betrayed by his failure(s) to win the war in Iraq, to secure the borders, to decrease the size of government, all the while unable or unwilling to articulate his policies and goals. The Republican party's attitude seems to be that we have nowhere else to go, and they're right. I won't be voting for any Democrats in the foreseeable future, but I won't vote for any more Republicans, either.

Having won the Whitehouse and the majority of both houses of Congress, they've utterly failed to represent their constituents. If they maintain a majority in the mid term elections, it will only be because the opposition is so hideously repulsive.

 

[CAnnoneer]

I admit that some of the criticisms against GWB are poorly formulated, others are misplaced, and others are plain vicious. But, I do agree that the country has not seen a more massively hated president since Nixon. The reason why so many people have such an emotional reaction and sometimes go too far in their attacks is because of the extent to which they find themselves disagreeing with or just plain horrified by his policies (or lack thereof). That is saying something, something that cannot be denied and cannot be broken through the prism of partisanship.

I'd also offer the humble comparison to Charles de Gaule. When he got reelected marginally for president, he refused to be inaugurated and retired saying:"If I take office now, I will be doing so against the wishes of half of my fellow-countrymen. That is something I cannot do."

Perhaps in our political system, close results are inevitable, but perhaps that is a good argument for a more centrist position to satisfy the most, rather than play games with zoning, the electoral college, voting machines, off-staters, absentee votes, and state courts, so as to squeeze in a handful of votes more, win, and then run the country like a corporation with 51% control of shares.

Instead, GWB showed up on cameras self-satisfied as a sate cat and proceeded to gloat with "The people have spoken". Yes, 6 million more Americans voted against you, after you had won the previous election on the promise to be a unifier and a moderate that consults both sides. Now he runs around birdying reporters.

The comparison is just devastating.

 

[GT]

Bush is fine, economy is fine, vote for who the heck you want, I DON'T CARE and have no interest in convincing you.

I have just lost 20 IQ points I can hardly spare READING ALL THIS NONSENSE.

G

PS CAnnoneer is wrong and Monkeyleg is right

 

[Monkeyleg]

CAnonneer, I think I agreed to disagree with you before, so let's just leave it at that.

R.H.Lee: believe me, I've been disappointed to say the least by many of Bush's actions, even though many would benefit me (the senior drug prescription plan, for example).

Maybe it's time to try to look into Bush's mind.

He ran in 2000 as "a uniter, not a divider."

Back in Texas, that seemed to work.

As soon as he arrived in DC, though, that goal vanished. Teddy Kennedy, Schumer and others were just waiting for him.

Bush's education bill was roundly criticized, especially by Kennedy--until Kennedy's staff reminded the good senator that Bush had just signed Kennedy's bill.

Bush's strength lies in his determination to do what he thinks is right; his weakness is thinking that he can deal with the likes of Kennedy and Schumer.

If anyone can remember a president handed so many historical tragedies in so short a period of time, please refresh my memory.

GW will be out of office in less than 2 1/2 years. That may be music to the ears of some, but it should be of concern to others, because I simply do not see a better alternative. Hillary? Guiliani? Warner?

While we try to assess these pseudo conservatives, the issues of today will still be front-and-center: New Orleans; North Korea; China; Iraq; and the Middle East as a whole.

I truly believe that Bush could have taken more decisive action on any of these issues, except that the Democrat/Republican divide has become so wide that almost nothing of consequence can be done in Washington.

Ordinarily, I like congressional gridlock. As our own Tamara once pointed out, the Framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights should have stopped immediately after writing, "Congress shall make no law..."

I really fear for this country right now, because I don't believe that the country will even vote for a moderate conservative like Bush. And, at these tumultous times, the last thing we need is a president like Hillary.

 

[bg]

With stuff like this guy is blogging, it sure doesn't help any. In fact-
or fiction, this guy is trying to stir up a hornet's nest. I just hope
there isn't any truth to it..It is on Huff's page that doesn't lend much
credit to it. Anyway >
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randall-robinson/new-orleans_b_6643.html

It is reported that black hurricane victims in New Orleans have begun eating corpses to survive

 

[CAnnoneer]

Bush's education bill was roundly criticized, especially by Kennedy--until Kennedy's staff reminded the good senator that Bush had just signed Kennedy's bill.

Is that bill the No Child Left Behind? Since it was never funded, it wreaked absolute havoc with the schools in California and their budgets because it ordered a tall list of changes but provided no funds for them. I have no kids to worry about, but my colleagues with families are so pissed about it that Bush's picture is like a red cape to a bull. Just the facts as I know them.

Bush's strength lies in his determination to do what he thinks is right; his weakness is thinking that he can deal with the likes of Kennedy and Schumer.

I agree. But would add a long indictment of other weaknesses.

If anyone can remember a president handed so many historical tragedies in so short a period of time, please refresh my memory.

FDR comes to mind.

I truly believe that Bush could have taken more decisive action on any of these issues, except that the Democrat/Republican divide has become so wide that almost nothing of consequence can be done in Washington.

How is that? The Reps have both Houses, the POTUS, and virtually the SCOTUS. What better conditions can they have to accomplish what they want? Please explain.

GW will be out of office in less than 2 1/2 years. That may be music to the ears of some, but it should be of concern to others, because I simply do not see a better alternative. Hillary? Guiliani? Warner?

I am thinking Gen. Clark, Gen. Powell, Schwarzenegger. I'd probably vote for them than anybody else.

Ordinarily, I like congressional gridlock. As our own Tamara once pointed out, the Framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights should have stopped immediately after writing, "Congress shall make no law..."

Gridlock is perpetuation of procrastination and bi-partisan nepotism. Time can never be made up, while newer problems emerge faster and faster. A small passive government is a nirvana dream completely devoid of reality in this day and age. It may win votes, but it is just that, a delusion.

What we need is a competent, dynamic, flexible, energetic, adaptive, proactive, forward-looking leadership to usher us in the third millenium with all its new challenges, rather than try to get us back to the 1950s or 1890s.

I really fear for this country right now, because I don't believe that the country will even vote for a moderate conservative like Bush. And, at these tumultous times, the last thing we need is a president like Hillary.

If we can't elect a true competent moderate, we're dead. Both extremes are equally wrong and self-destructive, just in different ways.

 

[SIGarmed]

I'll give you a good example of what is taking place. The state of California and it's public education system is wasteful end of story. Funding does not make better students. This is proven by the fact that home schooled kids overwhelmingly out perform their counterparts in the public education system and there is a fraction of the cost spent per student.


The same can be said of private education where less is spent per student and they by and large out perform their public education counterparts. Not only that, but the socialists in the public sector routinely reject a voucher program so that parents can better educate their children by pulling them out and sending them to good schools proving once again that public education is a cash cow for socialists that are bent on pushing their leftist agenda at any expense. Then they claim to care about education.

The leftists have no plan other than to spend more money and they are a dismal failure. God forbid unionized government workers have to perform.

 

[CAnnoneer]

scubie02, as an actual teacher, please discuss what SIGarmed said.

In any case, where does the money go then? The teachers do not seem to me overfunded in any way.

I do not think comparing performance between private and public schools to determine teacher performance is a valid technique. Other factors like motivation, home atmosphere, cultural differences, values differences, personal standards etc. are very influential and are not taken into account in that evaluation method. I can't believe that a kid in a private school in a classroom of 20 in a two-kid family of lawyers, scientists, businessmen, investors, etc. is in all ways equivalent to a kid in public school in a classroom of 35 in a 7-children family of a grassmower and a homemaker/seamstress. There are powerful class factors that really dominate the scene, IMO.

 

[GunGoBoom]

I have just lost 20 IQ points

and that could border on catastrophic, as Bush lovers have few to spare. JK

 

[CAnnoneer]

Nah, personal attacks on other posters help nobody.

I distance myself from both IQ comments.

 

[telewinz]

180 degree about face

At first I was a rabid fan of Bush's but for some time now I feel his continued incompetence makes him a major threat to American security and stability. I voted for him the first time without reserve, the second time with serious doubts concerning his judgment and leadership abilities. I would now sign a petition for his impeachment and removal from office. I am real close to forsaking the Republican party and holding my nose and becoming a Democrat. A Bush supporter to me has become nothing less that a member of the ignorant masses.

I had to have my post edited because I didn't remember the part about no personal attacks in the Rules of Conduct

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

CAnnoneer -- Schwarzenegger? Can't run dude.

You have to be born an AMERICAN. (how Kerry slipped through, I don't know. Guess he became French after birth).

 

[GT]

Ahh yes.. I feel my IQ returning... but... slowly...

The mighty FDR!
Tried to recover from the Crash by throwing gvt money at it.... wasn't working!
Tried to set the highest tax rate at 95%!
Hated entrepreneurs and businessmen.
Luckily he got himself a war. Phew! Nobody will notice his incompetence now.
War drags on and on (what's our plan?)
Finally wins the war and we are in Germany for 30 years!!! Holy Cow!
NY Times says: "we have won the war but lost the peace" sound familiar?

Yeah, gotta love how well that FDR and his Socialism helped the country in its hour of need.

G

 

[R.H. Lee]

Yeah, gotta love how well that FDR and his Socialism helped the country in its hour of need.

uhhh....I think the entire country was in the middle of the Great Depression. FDR's make work programs (CCC, WPA, etc.) funded improvments to infrastructure and government property (national parks, etc.) People had to actuall work for their money. Quite a bit different than today's freebie welfare, endorsed, supported and funded by both Democrats and Republicans. FDR would make some of today's Republicans look like Karl Marx.

 

[GT]

CAnnoneer, are you seriously suggesting Weasely Clark as POTUS?
The hero of Kosovo and scion of BJ Klintoon?

Man, you are really devaluing the quality of your arguments here!


G

PS. What's our exit strategy from the Balkans? A Klintoon war we really can never win.

 

[GT]

R.H., I think you may be mistaken. Here are some quotes:

John L. Lewis, President of the United Mine Workers in 1940

Mr. Roosevelt made depression and unemployment a chronic fact in American life

Grace Abbott the Social Reformer to the DNC:

There is in Chicago and in a very large part of the country, more suffering than there was in 1933 when the President came to office. It is a common sight to see children salvaging food from garbage cans

Winston Churchill in 1937:

The Washington administration has waged so ruthless a war on private enterprise that the US is actually leading the world back into the trough of depression

From figures compiled by the AFL and used by John Flynn in 1955 in his report in The Freeman:

In 1932, when Roosevelt was elected, there were on relief 4,155,000 households, containing 16,620,000 persons. In 1940, eight years later, there were 4,227,000 households on relief, containing 16,908,000 persons. In this period farm employment fell off and has never recovered

This is what I am talking about. FDR was an incompetent Socialist.
His "Keynesian" voodoo economics (create vast amounts of government investment so as to stimulate and perpetually maintain consumer demand at a high level) was a recipe for disaster.
He needed WW2 to bail him out of the catastrophe of his own making.
He makes today's politicians look like rank amateurs.

G

 

[CAnnoneer]

GT,

I like Clark because:

1. He is a professional soldier, hence a proven leader.
2. He is intelligent, open-minded, and flexible.
3. He speaks truth to power when many others would do a CYA.
4. As a centrist, he is hated by all extremists on both sides.
5. Since he is not a career politician, he stands the chance to clean house if elected.

Yes, he is a bit too soft-spoken form my tastes, and perhaps naive in the political arena, but it is exactly that naivety and honesty that is preferable to the Hollywood style of politics practiced by Rove and co. IMO, Rovians are the cancer of our political system and eventually will destroy it.

I personally have no problem voting to change the constitution to allow immigrants to run for president after 25 years of naturalization. Anything else is treating them as second-class citizens and thus is inherently un-American. Ergo, Schwarzenegger is eligible to run, as far as I am concerned.

My exit strategy for the Balkans is pull the US troops out and let Euro blue helmets deal with it. Because it is in their backyard, Germans, French, and British are more than happy to do that duty.

And, by the way, comparing Clinton's involvement in the Balkans to Bush's involvement in Iraq (which is what your subtext is) is just so unfair that it is grotesque. Last time I checked, 1,800 GIs did not die and 27,000 GI's did not get wounded or crippled in the Balkans under Clinton. Neither did we or do we bleed 20 billion dollars a month in the Balkans.

Same goes for your comparison of the stay in Germany vs Iraq.

Finally, since you are so fond of IQ, would you care to share with us your score? You brought it up, after all.

 

[longeyes]

"I can't believe that a kid in a private school in a classroom of 20 in a two-kid family of lawyers, scientists, businessmen, investors, etc. is in all ways equivalent to a kid in public school in a classroom of 35 in a 7-children family of a grassmower and a homemaker/seamstress. There are powerful class factors that really dominate the scene, IMO."

The Elephant in the Living Room, reading a book: Smarter parents tend to have smarter kids. It's not just that Johnny got an iBook earlier; it might be that Johnny's IQ is higher. Ooops.

Education shouid be a process of seeking out the truly inquiring and lively minds and encouraging their intellectual development with all available resources. Who cares about the gifted any more? (Answer: The Indians and the Chinese!) This system is about creating consumers and keeping the natives from getting too restless (Ritalin seems to help).

California's spending over $50 billion a year now on "education." Of course most of that seems to be going to educating Mexican kids, not American kids. The teachers don't care. They have a ready-made, life-time supply of "customers." It's easier than going out and looking for sales, right?

If we want to solve any of these problems we are going to have to use draconian means. Catastrophe may prove to be our friend in the long run.

 

[R.H. Lee]

He needed WW2 to bail him out of the catastrophe of his own making.

Got it, GT. Now I understand FDR actually caused the Great Depression.

 

[CAnnoneer]

Tried to recover from the Crash by throwing gvt money at it.... wasn't working!

He created jobs for millions of Americans when they were so desperate that they would have turned commie. AFAIAC, he saved America from communism by doing so. The expenditures also created an enormous psychological effect to give people hope and self-respect back, and make them think things are improving, when so many were falling into looting, gangsterism, leftist extremism. And instead, they went ahead and built enormous infrastructure for transportation and energy, bringing electricity to many more homes in America, for example. I agree that not each and every one of his measures was perfect, but overall he is a big hero to me and most Americans.

Btw, the same trick was used by Hitler in Germany to feed the millions and keep them away from communism. And, it also built Germany's superb autobahn system of concrete roads that is still in used today...

Luckily he got himself a war. Phew! Nobody will notice his incompetence now.

Kind of like Bush maybe? Yes, it is all 9/11 fault.

So, why was WW2 so stimulating to the economy? Maybe it is because of the tremendous government orders for military production? Why did America emerge as the economic superpower after WW2? Maybe because the industrial capacity built with government orders now turned around and churned out civilian production?

Like it or not, government can have tremendous positive effect both on the economy and on business in general. But, it takes competence at the helm.

War drags on and on (what's our plan?)

Please clarify your point. What would you have done different?

NY Times says: "we have won the war but lost the peace" sound familiar?

Exactly how is that?