Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a #$% piece of paper'

[The Real Hawkeye]

Just curous, what do you think is the reason that there have been no terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11? You think the Islamofacists have just given up? Or maybe there afraid of Americans with CHL's? Yeah, that must be it.

Your statement is based on the assumption that our laws prior to 9/11 were inadequate to defend us from terrorists. In fact, the FBI had discovered the plot well in advance, and were in the process of investigating, but were called off by orders that came from the top. No explanation was given to the agents, nor even to their supervisors, just that they were to leave the suspects alone, and stop investigating them. The suspects were to be given a free hand, and hands off was the policy.

Our normal laws were more than enough, but you see, if they had been allowed to investigate, and then arrest these folks using laws which were - more or less - consistent with our Constitution, there would not have been a 9/11, and there would have been no excuse for expanding the police powers of the Federal Government, nor an excuse for a further militarization of all our police agencies, nor an excuse to invade the Middle East. So the dogs had to be called off, you see, for "national security reasons."

 

[Biker]

Just curous, what do you think is the reason that there have been no terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11? You think the Islamofacists have just given up? Or maybe there afraid of Americans with CHL's? Yeah, that must be it.

There have been no reported attcks since 9/11 because the Ts haven't decided to attack yet. What's to stop them? They're well financed, they can just walk across our southern border if they choose to with whatever they can carry.
They haven't attacked again because it's not time.
Biker

 

[beerslurpy]

Bush after signing a bill welcoming aliens into our country:

The truth is often told in jest. Bush hasnt gotten away with this yet, but it is high on his agenda.

There are a lot of politicians that should have the constititution repeatedly thrown at them, wrapped around a brick, of course. It would be nice if more than a small minority of the people actually understood and cared about government exceeding its bounds.

 

[rock jock]

In fact, the FBI had discovered the plot well in advance

Categorically false. They had picked up on suspicious bahavior, but to say they had unraveled the 9/11 plot is ridiculous.

Our normal laws were more than enough, but you see, if they had been allowed to investigate, and then arrest these folks using laws which were - more or less - consistent with our Constitution, there would not have been a 9/11, and there would have been no excuse for expanding the police powers of the Federal Government, nor an excuse for a further militarization of all our police agencies, nor an excuse to invade the Middle East. So the dogs had to be called off, you see, for "national security reasons."

That is one of the most twisted versions of 9/11 I have ever heard and rivals any of the most bizarre conspiracy theories out there. If you really believe that, I am very sorry for you.

There have been no reported attcks since 9/11 because the Ts haven't decided to attack yet. What's to stop them? They're well financed, they can just walk across our southern border if they choose to with whatever they can carry.

They're just taking a little break from their campaign of terror? That's your explanation? Wow.

Hey, maybe they are following the Colts and are waiting for the Fall football season to end. Or maybe they went to vacation at Club Med to unwind.

 

[Biker]

rock jock...

a) I think that we can safely say that they *want* to attack us. Can we agree on that?

b) They have the ability and tools available to do so.

So what's stopping them? Fear of death? I doubt it.
What's your answer?
See if you can logically reply without the sarcasm, hmmmm? Much appreciated.

Biker

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Categorically false. They had picked up on suspicious bahavior, but to say they had unraveled the 9/11 plot is ridiculous.

The agents suspected terrorism, and were called off without explanation by their supervisors, who themselves were just following the unexplained orders of their superiors, despite excellent evidence to justify a more intensive investigation.

That is one of the most twisted versions of 9/11 I have ever heard and rivals any of the most bizarre conspiracy theories out there. If you really believe that, I am very sorry for you.

Yours is the typical response of someone who has run out of arguments. The history of the Federal Government for more than a century has been one of constantly seeking, and if necessary creating, excuses to expand its powers at the expense of liberty. This is the tendency of all governments, which is why the Founders took steps to check it with State and local governmental power. That check was largely removed in 1913 with the ratification of the Seventeenth Amendment, which finished the work started by the Civil War. Since then, the flood gates have been open, and we've seen one excuse after another for the expansion of the Federal Government. Unchecked power invariably corrupts, and this is no exception.

 

[xd9fan]

Somewhere in the Constitution There is an override clause that reads that if its "for the children" and/or "for national security"/ "to keep people safe"........then the Bill of Rights and/or the separtion of powers to not apply.

:banghead:

 

[RealGun]

Your statement is based on the assumption that our laws prior to 9/11 were inadequate to defend us from terrorists. In fact, the FBI had discovered the plot well in advance, and were in the process of investigating, but were called off by orders that came from the top. No explanation was given to the agents, nor even to their supervisors, just that they were to leave the suspects alone, and stop investigating them. The suspects were to be given a free hand, and hands off was the policy.

Our normal laws were more than enough, but you see, if they had been allowed to investigate, and then arrest these folks using laws which were - more or less - consistent with our Constitution, there would not have been a 9/11, and there would have been no excuse for expanding the police powers of the Federal Government, nor an excuse for a further militarization of all our police agencies, nor an excuse to invade the Middle East. So the dogs had to be called off, you see, for "national security reasons."

Do you expect this to be accepted as fact?

 

[MechAg94]

Of course, we all know that 2nd photo is a fake since the real ring only shows the writing when heated by fire, and the fact that you can still see him.

 

[xd9fan]

*on the floor laughing*

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Do you expect this to be accepted as fact?

What I stated was what I believe based on the sum totality of the evidence that I am aware of. I cannot expect everyone to have accumulated the same evidence, and formulated the same opinion as myself.

 

[rock jock]

Yours is the typical response of someone who has run out of arguments.

Against the kind of delusional statements you are making, you are right.

 

[odysseus]

Just curous, what do you think is the reason that there have been no terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11? You think the Islamofacists have just given up? Or maybe there afraid of Americans with CHL's? Yeah, that must be it.

OK, so has there been documented proof that this part of the Patriot Act, which is a blatant attack on our constitution (notably the 4th Amendment), has stopped a terrorist attack? Are you one of those "ends justify the means" at any cost, even though that cost might be destroying exactly what we are supposedly protecting?

Maybe you then agree that attacking the 2nd Amendment's powers is also a good way to fight gun crime, with no evidence to back that up either.

Maybe I am one of those originalist, constitutional type of American. You can't cherry pick the Constitution on what fits a current agenda and what doesn't. And I am not alone in that opinion either.

 

[Sindawe]

Of course, we all know that 2nd photo is a fake since the real ring only shows the writing when heated by fire, and the fact that you can still see him.

You're forgetting that when the ring is worn by its maker, the heat of his malice is sufficient to bring the script to light. Nor does the ring turn its maker invisible, it permits him to take form.

 

[CAnnoneer]

Just curous, what do you think is the reason that there have been no terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11?

Escalation is bad for business. Now a perpetual Threat level: Orange keeps all fascists everywhere happy. Besides, to make profits on the stock market, you must do the unexpected.

The joke called Homeland Security and the Jester-in-Chief have nothing to do with heightened security. 2 million illegals per year cross the borders. How safe can they be?

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Against the kind of delusional statements you are making, you are right.

I think you are pushing the rules of this site pretty close to the edge there, pal.

Rule No. 4: You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

 

[carebear]

They haven't attacked again because they can't (yet anyway), much as they'd like to.

Look at what happened objectively. They had YEARS to plan 9/11, they had almost unlimited cash resources and they had almost absurdly permissive environments in this country and Europe to work within.

With all those advantages they still only managed to get all the people into place to pull off 3/4 of what they wanted to do. And that was more or less unopposed by their victims.

To pull off an event of similar size and impact in todays environment is asking a lot.

Realistically, Al-Quaeda's (one of the only non-nation state enemys of this country with anything even approaching the resources and skill set to pull off a decent strike) pool of recruits is actually regionally and culturally limited as is their training area. They had difficulty, even with legal paperwork, all the time in the world and little active investigation by our police and intelligence agencies, getting all their guys in place in this country and keeping them here.

Even then the plan they were able to pull off was not as complete as the apparent plan at the beginning.

As for round 2?

It is nowhere near as simple as just "walking across from Mexico".

They are on the opposite side of the world from Mexico, many of the senior associates are known, many of their allied groups are also in a fugitive status. Their cash resources are being hunted and seized.

They have to get the plan together, pull together the resources, get the operatives trained for the specific plan (which means getting people and stuff INTO the training country undetected), get them OUT of the training area undetected, get the plan components (people and stuff) onto whatever transportation they are taking across the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans, getting them INTO Mexico (for example) and only then "walking" all that stuff across the border, into position and launching whatever the attack is.

All this in the face of every intel agency on the planet, who are actively looking for anything remotely resembling such activity.

I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, but they aren't holding off out of goodwill.

I am, though, not a supporter of the Patriot Act in any way. Like most security responses that are visible, it is for show, with negative effects only on freedom.

 

[Warbow]

What I stated was what I believe based on the sum totality of the evidence that I am aware of. I cannot expect everyone to have accumulated the same evidence, and formulated the same opinion as myself.

Where do you get your evidence? DU?

 

[.41Dave]

Despite all the anti-gun, anti-liberty, unconstitutional behavior of the Bush administration, (not to mention the out of control uberliberal style federal spending that is destroying the economy), it amazes me how many so-called Republicans are still happily drinking the Bush administration Kool-aid. :banghead:

 

[carebear]

"Drinking the Kool-aid" is different than buying that this quote is actual. The two are not synonymous (though not exclusive).

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Where do you get your evidence? DU?

To quote Jerry Seinfeld, "I live and breath, my friend. I live and breath." Adults form their opinions based on a lifetime of observations, formulating and modifying their interpretations of those observations as they go along. Generally, the more intelligent and logically inclined the individual in question, the closest to objective reality those opinions tend to be, or at least one assumes as much. Not something that is particularly amenable to a citation. I offer my opinion for what it is worth. Take it or leave it. Doesn't matter one whit to me.

 

[Biker]

carebear

I'm not saying that they're holding off out of 'goodwill', I'm saying that they're waiting out of choice, for whatever reason.
They have the intent, ability and opportunity.
They obviously harbor no goodwill to us.
Biker

 

[carebear]

I, in turn, think ability is a far bigger reason than choice.

Hitting us now is, realistically, a logistical nightmare. These guys ain't supermen.

In any event, whatever the reason, let's hope they continue.

 

[Art Eatman]

This whole thread seems like something from the Onion.



Enuf.

Art