Caffeine or 7.62X25?
- Thread starter Josey
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Black Snowman
Member
Well, some people say that any pistol cartridge above a .380 will over-penetrate. Particularly if you miss COM. That's one of the reasons my home defense gun is a .223 loaded with HP ammo.
I think the round would be find defensively, particluarly with a HP bullet, but just like anything you want to be careful of what's behind your target. Plus a CZ-52 isn't exactly my first choice of a defensive platform. Of course I can't afford my 1st choice in a defensive platform. There probably aren't any that are transferable anyway.
I think the round would be find defensively, particluarly with a HP bullet, but just like anything you want to be careful of what's behind your target. Plus a CZ-52 isn't exactly my first choice of a defensive platform. Of course I can't afford my 1st choice in a defensive platform. There probably aren't any that are transferable anyway.
Very interesting Black Snowman. I checked and Magsafe actually makes a defensive round for this cartridge. It has 52 grains weight and a velocity of over 2,100 fps. While I'm not sure, I think it is a pre-fragmented bullet that Magsafe uses.
Assuming the light magsafe bullet expands or fragments at all, it is going to release a lot of energy into a center of mass hit, even if it passes through an arm first. However, if it holds it's shape, the bullet is likely to punch through like a hot needle through butter. Once again, it's a shame there isn't more information on how well these exotic rounds really perform.
Assuming the light magsafe bullet expands or fragments at all, it is going to release a lot of energy into a center of mass hit, even if it passes through an arm first. However, if it holds it's shape, the bullet is likely to punch through like a hot needle through butter. Once again, it's a shame there isn't more information on how well these exotic rounds really perform.
Clark
Member
Three lengths of magazines:
1) SHORT, 9x19, 1.169"
2) LONG, 45acp, 1.275"
3) EXTRA LONG, 7.62x25mm, 1.381"
The reason no one makes a Tokarev ammo shooting pistol in the USA, is that the ammo is too long for the magazine, magazine well, frame, etc.
I have been going the other way, if the Tokarev and Star Super B have such long magazines, why not convert to 9x23mm?
In my opinion, the 9x23mm is a better self defence round than the 7.62x25mm Tokarev round, unless you are attacked by prairie dogs at 100 yards wearing bullet proof vests.
1) SHORT, 9x19, 1.169"
2) LONG, 45acp, 1.275"
3) EXTRA LONG, 7.62x25mm, 1.381"
The reason no one makes a Tokarev ammo shooting pistol in the USA, is that the ammo is too long for the magazine, magazine well, frame, etc.
I have been going the other way, if the Tokarev and Star Super B have such long magazines, why not convert to 9x23mm?
In my opinion, the 9x23mm is a better self defence round than the 7.62x25mm Tokarev round, unless you are attacked by prairie dogs at 100 yards wearing bullet proof vests.
grendelbane
Member
I have seen pictures of 1911's that were supposedly converted to 7.62 Tok, but like Clark, I fail to see how they would fit in the magazine. I understand the Chinese also converted some Sten guns, but that was a simple barrel change, and removing the back rib from the magazine to make room for the longer cartridge. I have seen one of these magazines at a gun show.
Average hand size has gotten larger in the last century, so more people should be able to handle a longer cartridge going through the mag well. I am almost comfortable holding a LAR Grizzly in .45 Winmag.
It is a shame some one does not produce 1911 frames and magazines just slightly stretched in length, to enable the use of longer cartridges. 7.62x25, 9x23 loaded long, .460 Rowland loaded long, I am sure that there are other possibilities I am overlooking.
With modern CNC machining techniques, the frame shouldn't be a problem. The magazines would simple to design. Perhaps we will see something like this in a little while.
Average hand size has gotten larger in the last century, so more people should be able to handle a longer cartridge going through the mag well. I am almost comfortable holding a LAR Grizzly in .45 Winmag.
It is a shame some one does not produce 1911 frames and magazines just slightly stretched in length, to enable the use of longer cartridges. 7.62x25, 9x23 loaded long, .460 Rowland loaded long, I am sure that there are other possibilities I am overlooking.
With modern CNC machining techniques, the frame shouldn't be a problem. The magazines would simple to design. Perhaps we will see something like this in a little while.
Black Snowman
Member
That's just the kind of frame one would need for a wildcat I was thinking of developing. A 50 AE cut down to be just a bit longer than .45 ACP. At the same pressures the AE uses I guestemated you could get almost 1000 FPS with a 325 gr Gold Dot and 6+1 capacity in a gun the size of a full size HK USP in 45. That same frame would be a good size for a double stack 7.62x25.
Anyone want to fund such a crazy venture as cranking out a new line of high powered auto-pistols for people who want a little more than a 10mm
You listening Colt? HK? CZ? Glock? SIG? anyone? anyone?Josey
member
There is the 50 GI 1911.
The_Antibubba
Member
The HI-Point Carbine in 7.62 X 25-crude, ugly, and oh so fun!
And it'd be, what-$199.95?
Somebody write to Hi-Point!!!
And it'd be, what-$199.95?
Somebody write to Hi-Point!!!
denfoote
Member
Wish no longer!!!
Both the P38 and the Luger were chambered for the .30 cal. cartridge!!!
Here is the link to the .30 Luger.
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/p30lug.html
C96
Member
They are both 30 cal, but they are not the same cartridge.
.30 Mauser is not the same as a .30 Luger.
allan
.30 Mauser is not the same as a .30 Luger.
allan
41mag
Member
Correct me if i'm wrong but couldn't a M1 carbine be converted to shoot 7.62x25?.30 carbine is just a tick longer yes?I know that its not a $100 or probably even a $400 deal.Just a thought.
Josey
member
Hmmmm? M1 Carbine in 7.62X25? Coo! I wonder if a Mauser C96 could be cast and then chambered for 7.62X25?
C96
Member
C96's do shoot 7.62x25. You need to watch out for hot stuff. Casting a C96
would be possible if you could figure out a way to make all of the internals.
The springs alone would be a nightmare to produce, then fitting the parts.
I guess a cast frame and barrel housing might be possible. I don't think I would
want to be the one to test fire it.
A search here on C96 will get you a lot of very good info.
allan
would be possible if you could figure out a way to make all of the internals.
The springs alone would be a nightmare to produce, then fitting the parts.
I guess a cast frame and barrel housing might be possible. I don't think I would
want to be the one to test fire it.
A search here on C96 will get you a lot of very good info.
allan
Domino
Member
7.62X25
I've loaded up some 7.62X25 with some Hornady 90g XTP hollow points with about 13 grains of Accurate Number 9 powder. Gonna shoot them tommorow and see what I get, but I don't believe it would over penetrate as the bullets should be designed to expand at about 1600 fps.
Me and my dad discussed this and considering that the .30 carbine and the 7.62X25 are almost identical in actual power, it could be done. I would prefer the 7.62X25 cartridge but it is harder to reload. I would love to see a really lightweight, modern carbine in the cartridge. Something thats the size of the Kel-Tec or Beretta Storm but made of entirely steel. That would be awesome. Matbe when the AWB dies
I've loaded up some 7.62X25 with some Hornady 90g XTP hollow points with about 13 grains of Accurate Number 9 powder. Gonna shoot them tommorow and see what I get, but I don't believe it would over penetrate as the bullets should be designed to expand at about 1600 fps.
Me and my dad discussed this and considering that the .30 carbine and the 7.62X25 are almost identical in actual power, it could be done. I would prefer the 7.62X25 cartridge but it is harder to reload. I would love to see a really lightweight, modern carbine in the cartridge. Something thats the size of the Kel-Tec or Beretta Storm but made of entirely steel. That would be awesome. Matbe when the AWB dies
Clark
Member
Domino,
You are a CZ52 owner putting 13 gr. AA#9 with 90 gr bullet?
Between 2000 and early 2004 AA was publishing loads like:
85 gr 13.1 gr AA#9
86 gr 13.5 gr AA#9
93 gr 12.3 gr AA#9
Then very recently AA took those loads down from the web site and put up:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_handgun_standard_30cal.htm
AA Now in 2004:
85 gr 10.4 gr AA#9
86 gr 10.9 gr AA#9
93 gr 10.8 gr AA#9
AA reduced the CZ52 loads from 42kcup to 35kcup, as they may have found out that the CZ52 will fail American SAAMI type proof loads based on 42kcup Tokarev pressures.
What does it all mean?
You are skating on thin ice.
You are a CZ52 owner putting 13 gr. AA#9 with 90 gr bullet?
Between 2000 and early 2004 AA was publishing loads like:
85 gr 13.1 gr AA#9
86 gr 13.5 gr AA#9
93 gr 12.3 gr AA#9
Then very recently AA took those loads down from the web site and put up:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_handgun_standard_30cal.htm
AA Now in 2004:
85 gr 10.4 gr AA#9
86 gr 10.9 gr AA#9
93 gr 10.8 gr AA#9
AA reduced the CZ52 loads from 42kcup to 35kcup, as they may have found out that the CZ52 will fail American SAAMI type proof loads based on 42kcup Tokarev pressures.
What does it all mean?
You are skating on thin ice.
firearms_instructor
Member
"I would LOVE to see a semi-auto carbine in 7.62x25 and I think there would be a market for one considering how many CZ52s and Toks there are out there."
Gentlemen, I have SEEN such a carbine based on the PPSH40. I've seen it in gunshows at the Ft. Lauderdale War Memorial Auditorium, and in Shotgun News. It looked like a fun toy, it took drum and stick mags. I'm searching for it now.
Gentlemen, I have SEEN such a carbine based on the PPSH40. I've seen it in gunshows at the Ft. Lauderdale War Memorial Auditorium, and in Shotgun News. It looked like a fun toy, it took drum and stick mags. I'm searching for it now.
Clark
Member
7.62x25mm Long barrel
I am making a scope mount for it today, if I can get off the dime.
No imediate plans for a buttstock
I am making a scope mount for it today, if I can get off the dime.
No imediate plans for a buttstock
41mag
Member
Daaaaaaaaaang Clark!You gonna get a little fella to hold up the business end for ya?
What is that,about 23inches?
Looks awesome,I'd be curious to know velocity out of that!
What is that,about 23inches?
Looks awesome,I'd be curious to know velocity out of that!
Moparmike
Member
Remember that revolver in "Batman" that the Joker had?
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