7.62x25 Reinvigorated

[barnbwt]

Are you sure you aren't getting 32acp volumes for Carbine by accident or something? It's a slightly narrower cartridge, but significantly longer than anything under consideration (even Tokarev).

how absolutely awesome would a PDW/SMG/pistol caliber carbine firing that load be? that would be hitting with a force likely GREATER than that of 5.56 out of an AR-15 pistol

Yes to the first part, heck no on the second. Tokarev punches high for what it is, but 223 is simply a far, far, far larger round. More powder, way faster, and bullets that tumble/expand a lot more than Tok can hope for. You have to chop a 223 in half to form a Tok case; there is no possible way they can be comparable in ultimate power. Now, if you are only focused on momentum, then yes, the 223 goes like 50% faster while weighing about 1/3 less from a short barrel (PDW, not pistol length, for which the 223 would be so wildly overbore as to be a laughably impractical flamethrower). The problem with such a singular viewpoint, is dynamics of the equation change a bit around 2000fps, which is the very ceiling Tokarev could possibly attain with some load work, where you get the splash/fragmenting/shock/hydro effects of full-on rifle rounds that simply don't come into play any slower.

Bottleneck pistol rounds feed great and it is less dependant upon projectile shape

Very true, but it's not like straight taper cases are particularly bad-feeding in this day and age. Magazine and feeding has been more or less perfected in most all design formats. That said...

Imagine a 50 grain flying ashtray type load out of a 7.62x25 going a spicy 2,000 fps.

I had an idea a while back to form a Tokarev case from 223 to the same length as Tok's OAL, then seat the FMJ bullet backwards, flush with the neck. That's like another 1/4" or 25% of case length, and I bet it'd still feed as well as many flat-nose tapered rounds. I also bet the extra 'boom' would get you over 2kfps easily . If my Skorparev carbine works well, I'll be making another barrel & reamer to pursue this sorta-kinda-low-rent telescoped ammunition idea.

im really starting to like my idea of trimming and necking 5.56 brass down to 7.62x25 and loading that stuff to 55,000 PSI or so of pressure and see what it can do out of a 10" carbine

Where the heck's Clark? He's done all this already to some poor abused TT33's, and could answer all our questions. Normally he's along in short order to set folks straight on Tokarev vs. CZ52 strengths

yeah, i think im going to order me one of those, or a CZ52, id like to spend a bit more time with 7.62x25 but i have nothing that fires it

Spring two bills for one of the new production Zastava Tokarevs, and another bill for a CZ26 parts kit. The first is a great value and good quality by all accounts (the CZ52 looks way cooler IMO, but it simply has too many issues, design and production, to be a good test bed for anything very interesting --one of the few Czech weapons blunders), the second an incredibly advanced-for-its-time SMG that would've beaten the pants off the Uzi if not for the Iron Curtain.

do you guys think it would be possible to tweak a 1911 frame to fit a TT33 mag

1911 magwell is too wide, but a 9mm one might be doable (assuming the grip wasn't shortened in the process). The 38 Super conversions work if you seat the bullets deep, or stack them diagonally in the magazines & lose capacity/reliability. Sadly, even the super cheap Star/etc. 9mm Largo guns aren't quite long enough to accommodate the mighty Tokarev

TCB

 

[R.W.Dale]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noted clark's absence.


A truly modern 7.62x25 pistol would be the ONLY thing that might lure me away from my quite "good enough" 9mm carry tendencies

 

[barnbwt]

I'm trying. Gonna chop an Armscorp 1911 frame (and trigger stirrup) and stitch them together about .1" longer than they were, then jimmy-jack a Tokarev or CZ52 mag for initial testing (I'll ultimately stretch a 45acp mag the same way and tweak the lips for a sort of quasi dual-stack). I'll also be making a slide conversion unit that operates via the Pedersen hesitation lock principle, which will dampen the mild recoil even further (just as it does in my R51...when the stupid thing cycles) and not require frame modifications.

Oddly enough, the one place where Norinco's modern SIG-based 7.62x25 gun is sold --Canada-- is a place that has an even more uncertain Tokarev ammo situation than we do. Quit trying to kill this awesome round all you stupid communists! :banghead:

TCB

 

[Brin]

Why do some of us like the 7.62x25mm round? Well it comes down to personnel preference. What’s not to like about a reliable autoloader with ballistics similar to the 327 federal magnum? The new production Zastava m-57 are a strong and good gun for the money. If you have one, slug your barrel. I have two and they both have 0.312 bores. My m-57’s works best with the Sierra sports master 32 caliber hp bullets and Bear Creek Supply 32 cal, 100gr-fn moly coated lead bullets for target shooting. Is there any way legally to get a Dominion Arms P-762 from Canada to the US besides smuggling one in?

 

[Panzerschwein]

With 7.62x25mm Tokarev surplus ammo all but dried up except maybe a few little pockets of resistance that pop up from time to time, I think the cartridge has lost steam in America for that very reason. Back just a few years ago when you could get the Russian spam cams of it for DIRT cheap compared to any other handgun round, it made sense and it does have some interesting ballistic capabilities. However, with the prices of available ammo eclipsing 9mm, it just doesn't have much of a home here.