California Bullet Button is a drag! + Ergonomics Question

If you had to choose, which of CA's crippled versions of the AR-15 would you choose?

  • Bullet-Button Rifle (see description)

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • Featureless Rifle (see description)

    Votes: 4 10.0%

  • Neither. They both suck.

    Votes: 28 70.0%
  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
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Precision

member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
117
Location
San Mateo, California
:banghead:

I went to my local gunshop today, and started asking one of the guys about the AR-15s on the shelf, including one with tons of awesome Magpul gear. So he took down the MOE and let me fondle it. I asked him about the magazine situation, and he explained what a bullet button is. He used a pen to release the magazine, but apparently it will work with a cartridge as well. The release button is apparently INSIDE the traditional release button, so it can only be activated with a skinny object.

I asked him what the protocol was in terms of reloading, and he said it was a "gray area." According to him, I should technically open up my receiver and feed each individual round from the top (10 rounds max, of course). But "when no one's looking," it's apparently possible to do a bullet button reload, which means I could shove in a previously loaded 10-rounder and save a ton of time. I don't know how legal that is.... :eek:

Maybe I should skip the AR route due to my state laws and focus on a more versatile system... like bolt rifles or shotguns.... OR I could get a featureless rifle, in which case I could have a detachable magazine anyway!

Here's my ergonomics question. In one category, you have:
Featureless Rifle
a) Detachable 10-round magazines
b)Fixed stock
c)No foregrip/rails (I think)
d) No munition launcher
e)No flash hider
f)No pistol grip
g)Safety has to be switched to right side of gun because of f) (thumb can't wrap around)

Or:
Bullet Button Rifle
a)"Nondetachable" 10-round magazine
b)All standard AR accessories are aloud (still no suppressor)
c)Much more common for some reason

Which would you guys choose, if you were trapped here like me? :fire:
 
I knew California had some stupid laws, but dear Jesus, who is running your state?!


I vote for UHaul. As in UHaul ass out of there.

I guess I'd take the Bullet Button rifle if I REALLY wanted an AR. For the sake of your poll, I'm voting Bullet Button, although my first response was "neither."
 
Move to AZ!
:D

I think you can do a bullet button reload. I saw an AR competition that was taking place in California on YouTube once, where the guy was poking something in a hole to remove the spent mag, and insert a full one.
 
Couldn't you get an m1a and just use stripper clips? Or did they ban stripper clips too?

If I was limited to only ten rounds I know I'd move up in caliber..but thats just me.
 
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Carter said:
Couldn't you get an m1a and just use stripper clips? Or did they ban stripper clips too?

If I was limited to only ten rounds I know I'd move up in caliber..but thats just me.
Click to expand...
I would only consider it if there was a MODERN version available, something that isn't from WW2. I like new stuff, sorry!
 
I would only consider it if there was a MODERN version available, something that isn't from WW2. I like new stuff, sorry!
Click to expand...

M1a is from Vietnam era. You can get them with new plastic stocks and other modern stuff. Its still a great design that is highly reliable and accurate.
 
I don't know if this will help you or not, but you might be happy to learn that Colorado is still accepting resident applications from gun-owning Californians! In the past decade we've greatly exceeded our quota of imported liberal-sissy migrants from CA, but we are still well short of our importation goals for CA-based shooters... So, head east and I'll show you some good places to shoot those un-neutered AR-15's :)

Actually, I agree with what someone else said. Given my choices, I'd go with an M1A. You can buy these as very high quality new production rifles, with lots of options to choose from, and I think they'd probably qualify for CA rules under most circumstances (standard stock styles, detachable magazine, and maybe a muzzle brake in place of a flash hider).

Check out the available M1A models through Springfield Armory, for example:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=13
 
A "what if" that occured to me a while back

Bullet buttons are steel, right?

So why not stick a magnet to the bullet button? There are really strong magnets on the market these days, if you got one the exact right size it wouldn't be going anywhere.
 
The bullet button is legal because it requires the use of a tool to operate. So it doesn't qualify as a normal detachable magazine.

The tip of a bullet qualifies as a tool.

But I digress, just get a mini 14 or kel-tec su-16ca.
 
I say that both of them are terrible choices and you're better off getting a "traditional sporting" rifle. If you must have an AR, get a featureless one. If you can get one, I recommend an SVT-40. It would have the same mag size, detatchability, and the caliber is a lot more powerful. Accuracy is better as well. A Garand wouldn't be too bad a choice either. Maybe an M1a too...
 
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I'd get the bullet button. If I was getting a "featureless rifle" I would get one that was designed that way, like a Springfield M1A (M14) or a Ruger Mini-14.

I have heard about rings and "thimbles" that have a pin or nub for the bullet button that you can wear while shooting to facilitate magazine changes.
 
IMO...

If you own large capacity magazines, then go "featureless".

If you do not own large capacity magazines, then go with a bullet button maglock.


Precision said:
I asked him what the protocol was in terms of reloading, and he said it was a "gray area." According to him, I should technically open up my receiver and feed each individual round from the top (10 rounds max, of course). But "when no one's looking," it's apparently possible to do a bullet button reload, which means I could shove in a previously loaded 10-rounder and save a ton of time. I don't know how legal that is....
Click to expand...
The gun store guy is behind the times.
It is legal to use the bullet button mag lock to switch magazines.

In a recent court case, CA DOJ BOF stated that a "bullet button" type maglock with a 10 round or less magazine on a semi-auto centerfire rifle is legal in CA.

A 11+ round magazine in a maglock'd semi-auto centerfire rifle is not legal in CA (felony).
Proper use is with 10 round or less magazines.

bigfatdave said:
A "what if" that occured to me a while back

Bullet buttons are steel, right?

So why not stick a magnet to the bullet button? There are really strong magnets on the market these days, if you got one the exact right size it wouldn't be going anywhere.
Click to expand...
The bullet button maglock is legal because it requires the use of a tool that is not attached to the firearm to release the magazine.

There are a few vendors that are selling a magnet that sits over the bullet button maglock. It's nicknamed is the "felony button/magnet", because once you attach it to a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a maglock, it becomes an "assault weapon" (felony).

Unistat said:
I have heard about rings and "thimbles" that have a pin or nub for the bullet button that you can wear while shooting to facilitate magazine changes.
Click to expand...
The "new" thing is modified shooting gloves with a nub on the middle figger, which is used to activate the maglock.
 
Regular ARs with real (old) mags are legal if they were registered 10 years ago as an Assault rifle FWIW. I don't think Pmags for instance would pass the muster as they weren't around to be grandfathered.
 
Please read Quiet's post a couple times because it really does clarify many things that were wrong with the LGS's clerks assertions.

Also, do some research on the UBBT or Ultimate Bullet Button Tool. It's basically a small modification that you make to pretty much any magazine that turns a spare mag into your tool.

It consists of a small bolt-on nub that goes onto the lower leading edge of your mag.

Operation is simple:

1. fire AR to maglock or desired remaining round count.
2. grab spare mag
3. insert UBBT into bullet button equipped mag release using mag as handle/grip
4. Allow inserted mag to drop free
5. insert fresh mag
6. Continue ventilating zombie's

It really is the latest/best effort to nullify Cali's stupid rules.

What's great is that you get like 6 per pack(you use 1 per mag), and each pack is around $10-15.00. They ABSOLUTELY can be used on your existing mags, or can be ordered already installed on magpul PMAG 10/20's or 10/30's for very little extra. (A few dollars, I think)
 
Sorry to sound ill informed, but what is this thing you guys are talking about?
California is requiring firearms with a detachable magazine to have some sort of latch you can't release with out some special tool?
 
as the others have posted, you get a button or you don't get to have the rifle in California. mine has a button.... it remains unfired. my wife says it has no soul. she likes the old war horses. wood and steel, touched by soldiers from long ago, the wood stained from years of use, tested in battle, they have a play of honor in her home..... I built my AR while I still could, before the numbskulls in Sac changed their minds and tell us we can't have that either.
 
Before someone figured these things out, AR's were considered Assault weapons and if you didn't have one before the ban, they were Unobtanium.

Enter some smart folks from Calguns and a few other sources that figured out that the guns that were banned couldn't have DETACHABLE magazines. That the magazine needed to be removed using a tool not attached to the gun. That was the letter of the law.

They devised the bullet button that made a magazine ATTACHABLE but still not DETACHABLE without a tool.

At that point,(now confirmed by the DOJ), with a bullet button, AR15's with 10rd mag ceased to be assault weapons and therefore were legal for sale.

Certainly not ideal, but then again we have REAL AR's on the shelves again.
 
what is this thing you guys are talking about?
California is requiring firearms with a detachable magazine to have some sort of latch you can't release with out some special tool?
Click to expand...

Not a "special tool." A loaded cartridge will do it. It's a loophole in the law which allows you to own and shoot a previously unregistered (if you registered your ARs back in 2000 you're still good to go) AR rifles. It's still got the mag release, but it requires a skinny pointy thing to release the mag. So if you've got a particular model (I don't keep up with their ever changing lists) without the dreaded number of forbidden attributes, you can still own an honest to goodness AR that still looks like an AR.

You're still limited to a 10 round mag though. Does anybody even make a 10 round AR mag?
 
Thank God I was born in Florida!

I have the beaches, the sexy women, the great sun, the great weather, and the great guns. Hell, I even have Disney World and other theme parks.

If I lived in the People's Republic of California I'd get a SKS and and a M1 Garand and be done with it. No other rifle would really cut the mustard for a good all around rifle that can used for self defense, sport, hunting, and plinking.
 
Neither. Modernized M1A, Kel-Tec SU16, or Ruger Mini-14. I really like AR-15s, but if I was in Cali in I'd have an M1A or SU16. Get the Mini if you like it better.
 
Knowing your pain... I would go with the bullet button, that way you could kinda have the AR the way you want it. Other then that I would buy an M1A because I wouldn't own a mini-14 even if Ruger gave it to me for free.

The kel-tec just feels a little to cheap and I'm wondering what the failure rate is on them when they're put to the test. I guess if it was a range queen it might do alright.

And don't worry about a suppressor as you'll never get one here in CA as a subject.
 
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