357Shooter
Member
Can I (NC) legally ship to an FFL dealer in FL for transfer to a friend?
As I understand it's OK but must be overnight? Just want to make sure.
As I understand it's OK but must be overnight? Just want to make sure.
MtnCreek said:Make sure you have a signed copy of the ffl prior to shipping.
This is not even a requirement for dealers, any more.MtnCreek said:Make sure you have a signed copy of the ffl prior to shipping.
nalioth said:NavyLT, were you wondering how long it'd be before someone made something up?
MtnCreek said:If that's a myth, it's news to me. My understanding is that you can only ship to a ffl or yourself. How do you know that you're shipping to a ffl w/o a copy.
Well, as an unlicensed person, you can:MtnCreek said:How do you know that you're shipping to a ffl w/o a copy
C'mon folks, in the free states, gun registration is a TV-perpetrated myth.MtnCreek said:Firearm still in your name
Federal Firearms License Results
Warning: No one may use this screen, in lieu of the required certified copy of a Federal Firearms License, to acquire a firearm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnCreek
Firearm still in your name
C'mon folks, in the free states, gun registration is a TV-perpetrated myth.
You're kidding, right?MtnCreek said:It is my understanding that you are not correct, but I can't verify without a lot of digging that I'm unwilling to do.
I've even highlighted the part you're interested in.ATF FAQ said:Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
MtnCreek said:NavyLT, I'll assume you know what you're talking about as to requirements of unlicensed persons shipping firearms. It is my understanding that you are not correct, but I can't verify without a lot of digging that I'm unwilling to do.
Assuming you're correct, my concerns in post 12 are still valid; would you not agree?
(a) The Attorney General may prescribe only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out the provisions of this chapter, including—
(1) regulations providing that a person licensed under this chapter, when dealing with another person so licensed, shall provide such other licensed person a certified copy of this license;
When ATF does a search on a firearm, they start at the top (manufacturer) and work their way down through the documentation. I'm not going to be the one left holding the bag!
Not kidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnCreek
It is my understanding that you are not correct, but I can't verify without a lot of digging that I'm unwilling to do.
You're kidding, right?
Thanks for highlighting. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. Correct. That's the whole purpose of the licensed dealer in this transaction.The "digging" you'd have to do is to find the sticky at the very top of this subforum labeled "ATF FAQs".
To save you from all that work, let me show you the relevant portion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATF FAQ
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
I've even highlighted the part you're interested in.
If that doesn't do it, I maintain this resource and keep it up to date: Shipping a gun - who, how, where, when and why which has all the above, plus links to the post office and common carriers firearm shipping policies.
So which are you doing? Transfering across state line to a licensee (legal)or non-licensee(federal crime)? I know because I have the ffl and I shipped to the address on the ffl.A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
No. I'm willing to admit that it's my understanding. My understanding is based on discussing with people that should know. I'm willing to 'assume' for the sake of argument that you're correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnCreek
NavyLT, I'll assume you know what you're talking about as to requirements of unlicensed persons shipping firearms. It is my understanding that you are not correct, but I can't verify without a lot of digging that I'm unwilling to do.
So you will admit that your "understanding" is based upon assumption which your are not willing to research to back up with fact.
Quote:
Assuming you're correct, my concerns in post 12 are still valid; would you not agree?
Nope. Not valid at all. Here's why.
1. I send a firearm to an address based upon a photocopied piece of paper with a signature on it which turns out to not be an FFL....
OR
2. I send a firearm to an address that I obtained from an official ATF database via an FFL number that I received over the phone from the recipient.
Which one do you think is more likely to hold up in court? The photocopied piece of paper, or information in an official government database?
Make sure you have a signed copy of the ffl prior to shipping. Only ship to the address shown on the ffl. Ship without the ffl or ship to address other than the one on the ffl and bad things could happen.
There's the first myth. Not required for private parties shipping to FFLs. IF the private party wants to verify the FFL, which is NOT required, only the FFL number is required and the private party can use EZ Check to verify the FFL.
Private Party is free to do the same.When an FFL receives a request from a private party for a certified copy of their license, the FFL is more than within their rights to say, "Pack sand, buddy. I am only required to provide that to another FFL." And they would be prudent to do so.
Correct. This thread was started by a nonlicensed shipper. I was addressing his situation and my advice was sound.You are addressing this issue only from the concerns for CYA of the shipper. There are also concerns for CYA of the licensed dealer as well.
The point is all you are getting is a photocopied piece of paper in the mail or via fax with a signature on it. That's all you are getting. That is no proof of an FFL. It's just a photocopied piece of paper with a signature on it.
I think this is bad advice.MtnCreek said:If the above is how you'ld handle the transaction, go for. I think it's bad advice. Get a copy of the ffl and ship to that address.
nalioth said:We've offered perfectly legal alternatives that are easier to achieve.