Can't shoot nearly as good with a 45 as with a 9mm...is it just me?
- Thread starter the count
- Start date
- Status
FullEffect1911
Member
I finally managed to go and get myself a 9mm (M&P9) to try out and I was really surprised with the results. I was able to hit pretty accurately with my M&P 45c but it took a lot more concentration to stay on target and shoot it with precision and speed. I find the 9mm is much more effortless for me and the follow up shots are faster due to less recoil. Realistically the only real reason I wasn't shooting the 45c as accurately was because I was anticipating recoil and possibly the grip was a bit small for me.
I am sure if I worked on it a lot I could shoot that .45 just as effortlessly, but I feel my time is better spent towards getting even better with the 9mm.
I do feel the .45 shines in good heavy all steel pistols though and I shoot .45 auto just fine out of my 1911.
I am sure if I worked on it a lot I could shoot that .45 just as effortlessly, but I feel my time is better spent towards getting even better with the 9mm.
I do feel the .45 shines in good heavy all steel pistols though and I shoot .45 auto just fine out of my 1911.
InkEd
Member
The platform (gun) seems to make a big difference. Most people shoot .45 from a 1911 which has a single action trigger and 9mm from either a striker-fired or DA/SA pistol. This does not lend to a fair comparision.
However, if using the same type of gun for both people will tend to shoot about the same or perhaps just a little better with the caliber they use most.
In competive shooting, each has advantages (and disadvantages) over the other cartridge. The 9mm has less recoil and can hold a few more round in a (same-sized) magazine. The .45, as the saying goes is a bigger bullet and makes a bigger hole. This means that it punches out a bigger piece of the target. Occasionally, a shot from a .45 that would be "right on the line" (of a scoring section) with 9mm will be given points for being "inside the line" because of the bigger hole. (This CAN work the opposite way and earn the shooter less points too.) The other thing is the bigger hole/mark from the .45 is easier for the shooter to see and allows for quicker subtle corrections in their point of aim.
Both have the pros and cons. Shoot what works best for you.
-InkEd
P.S. Personally, I think alot of people shoot better with larger caliber handguns because they take more time to aim them than smaller calibers. Give a person a .22 MkIII and they'll blast all 10rds into a target as quickly as possible.....because it's a .22 pistol. Give the same person a .44magnum Redhawk and watch as they carefully aim and slowly squeeze the trigger.....because it's a .44magnum. You'll get the same reactions (but with less distinct variance) with .38/.357 and.....wait for it..... 9mm/.45acp.
However, if using the same type of gun for both people will tend to shoot about the same or perhaps just a little better with the caliber they use most.
In competive shooting, each has advantages (and disadvantages) over the other cartridge. The 9mm has less recoil and can hold a few more round in a (same-sized) magazine. The .45, as the saying goes is a bigger bullet and makes a bigger hole. This means that it punches out a bigger piece of the target. Occasionally, a shot from a .45 that would be "right on the line" (of a scoring section) with 9mm will be given points for being "inside the line" because of the bigger hole. (This CAN work the opposite way and earn the shooter less points too.) The other thing is the bigger hole/mark from the .45 is easier for the shooter to see and allows for quicker subtle corrections in their point of aim.
Both have the pros and cons. Shoot what works best for you.
-InkEd
P.S. Personally, I think alot of people shoot better with larger caliber handguns because they take more time to aim them than smaller calibers. Give a person a .22 MkIII and they'll blast all 10rds into a target as quickly as possible.....because it's a .22 pistol. Give the same person a .44magnum Redhawk and watch as they carefully aim and slowly squeeze the trigger.....because it's a .44magnum. You'll get the same reactions (but with less distinct variance) with .38/.357 and.....wait for it..... 9mm/.45acp.
Cop Bob
Member
It has a bit to do both with the 1911 design, and the energies involved...
The 45, throwing 230 gr bullet, will generate more inherent recoil than a 124 gr out of a 9mm... There will be variances for load strength and velocities,, but we are looking at the general rule.. The 45 just kicks harder.. that's the brunt of it.
Also it may have something to do with the general design characteristics of the 1911 itself... The slide on a 45 has the bulk of the it's weight is at the rear, and when it is at full recoil position, the bulk of that mass is centered directly above the breaking point, or joint of your wrist... It has a tendency to make most everyone "Break" their wrist..
This is not as much an issue with revolvers, and not near as big an issue with most other autos simply because of the weights and energy involved..
The 45 Auto can generate up to 2000 G's in recoil.. that is a lot to handle when it is centered directly over or in the case of smaller hands, behind the fulcrum point. (the pivot point in the wrist)
It took me MANY years to learn to shoot a 45... I struggled with it for a long time.. I could write my name with a revolver, but a 45 gave me fits, I would on a good day drop 20 points + just by changing over to a 45...
An old 2600 bullseye shooter watched me one afternoon and said... "I can Fix that for you boy.." then he showed me how to grip a 45 where it naturally locked the tendons in my wrist... never had a problem since... I now hand onto every pistol in the same manner..
1st UNLOAD and make sure the pistol is in proper alignment with your body/Arm... that is there is a STRAIGHT LINE between the front sight and the center of your bent elbow... you can check this while gun is lowered by your side..
#2... don't grab the pistol like a baseball bat... take only the middle two fingers, between the pinky and the trigger finger, and use THEM to pull the pistol straight back into the palm of your hand. When done properly, there may even be a gap between the center of the palm of your hand and the right side of the grip (rt handed)
1st try gripping the pistol the way you always have, with a "Bear Claw death grip" or "Meat-hook Grip" as I have heard it termed, and look at the center of the wrist just behind the joint between your hand and arm.. and notice the shape of the muscle and tendon structure,, you will notice that they two major tendons that connect the arm and hand are not ridged... and if your not real skinny, probably not visible.
Now with the same old grip you have always used, Slap or hit the muzzle of the UNLOADED pistol. or with the off hand briskly rack the slide as hard and fast as you can.... notice that it will allow the wrist to break...or flex/bend...
Now, try the method described... the first change that you will notice... with the two middle fingers pulling the grip straight back into the base of the palm, is that the two tendons that connect your hand and arm at the wrist are now protruding..Two distinct straight lines either side of the centerline of your wrist..
Now slap or strike the muzzle. or a hard rack.. and notice that the wrist will not break with the impact.........nor will it with the recoil...
Keep your shoulders and elbow relaxed, and let shoulders and elbows ride the recoil, NOT your wrists... You will find that your recovery times are faster, and after you get your mind to ignore the blast, your on your way... Watch the scores come up...
The 45, throwing 230 gr bullet, will generate more inherent recoil than a 124 gr out of a 9mm... There will be variances for load strength and velocities,, but we are looking at the general rule.. The 45 just kicks harder.. that's the brunt of it.
Also it may have something to do with the general design characteristics of the 1911 itself... The slide on a 45 has the bulk of the it's weight is at the rear, and when it is at full recoil position, the bulk of that mass is centered directly above the breaking point, or joint of your wrist... It has a tendency to make most everyone "Break" their wrist..
This is not as much an issue with revolvers, and not near as big an issue with most other autos simply because of the weights and energy involved..
The 45 Auto can generate up to 2000 G's in recoil.. that is a lot to handle when it is centered directly over or in the case of smaller hands, behind the fulcrum point. (the pivot point in the wrist)
It took me MANY years to learn to shoot a 45... I struggled with it for a long time.. I could write my name with a revolver, but a 45 gave me fits, I would on a good day drop 20 points + just by changing over to a 45...
An old 2600 bullseye shooter watched me one afternoon and said... "I can Fix that for you boy.." then he showed me how to grip a 45 where it naturally locked the tendons in my wrist... never had a problem since... I now hand onto every pistol in the same manner..
1st UNLOAD and make sure the pistol is in proper alignment with your body/Arm... that is there is a STRAIGHT LINE between the front sight and the center of your bent elbow... you can check this while gun is lowered by your side..
#2... don't grab the pistol like a baseball bat... take only the middle two fingers, between the pinky and the trigger finger, and use THEM to pull the pistol straight back into the palm of your hand. When done properly, there may even be a gap between the center of the palm of your hand and the right side of the grip (rt handed)
1st try gripping the pistol the way you always have, with a "Bear Claw death grip" or "Meat-hook Grip" as I have heard it termed, and look at the center of the wrist just behind the joint between your hand and arm.. and notice the shape of the muscle and tendon structure,, you will notice that they two major tendons that connect the arm and hand are not ridged... and if your not real skinny, probably not visible.
Now with the same old grip you have always used, Slap or hit the muzzle of the UNLOADED pistol. or with the off hand briskly rack the slide as hard and fast as you can.... notice that it will allow the wrist to break...or flex/bend...
Now, try the method described... the first change that you will notice... with the two middle fingers pulling the grip straight back into the base of the palm, is that the two tendons that connect your hand and arm at the wrist are now protruding..Two distinct straight lines either side of the centerline of your wrist..
Now slap or strike the muzzle. or a hard rack.. and notice that the wrist will not break with the impact.........nor will it with the recoil...
Keep your shoulders and elbow relaxed, and let shoulders and elbows ride the recoil, NOT your wrists... You will find that your recovery times are faster, and after you get your mind to ignore the blast, your on your way... Watch the scores come up...
KodiakBeer
member
You have to quantify the term "shooting".
The OP is talking about action shooting, and for that the 9mm shines. High capacity, low recoil; bang, bang, bang. The .45 can't keep up unless you skew the score with power factors.
I think for pure accuracy though, the .45 acp wins. I won't argue that the cartridge is inherently more accurate, but the platforms surely are. There are so many tuned 1911's and such an industry revolving around tuning 1911's that the 9mm doesn't have a chance.
The OP is talking about action shooting, and for that the 9mm shines. High capacity, low recoil; bang, bang, bang. The .45 can't keep up unless you skew the score with power factors.
I think for pure accuracy though, the .45 acp wins. I won't argue that the cartridge is inherently more accurate, but the platforms surely are. There are so many tuned 1911's and such an industry revolving around tuning 1911's that the 9mm doesn't have a chance.
This might be true, but it certainly isn't the case with me. I shoot 45 the least of any caliber, and I can shoot smaller groups with my G21 compared to my 9mm Glocks, any time I bring it out to play. And it has a worse trigger than my G19 and only a slightly longer sight radius.
I'm pretty sure it's mostly due to ergos and sight radius, but it's certainly not just because 1911's have better triggers. Since I started reloading, I have also noticed my g21 has a tighter chamber than my other Glocks. Or my other 9mm's. When I want to shoot a shotgun shell off a log at 30 feet, I'll use my G21 and expect to hit it every time, if I do my part. (The larger diameter helps, too, I suppose
)It also seems to be obvious to me that a larger bullet and bore will reduce the effect of slight deviations in powder charge or of a slightly asymmetric crown. So if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say 45 is capable of greater accuracy, on average. If one were inclined to use a Ransom Rest and measure in fractions of a millimeter, at least.
Last edited:
AethelstanAegen
Member
As many others have said, I think it's just a personal preference thing...the various elements line up right for people in different calibers, platforms, etc. Personally, I shoot a good deal better with a .45 over a 9mm (even though I've probably shot more 9mm in my lifetime than .45). Maybe it's my big hands working well with bigger grips common on .45s (my favorites are the XD and the 1911)...I know I certainly prefer .45 recoil (I find it has more of a rearward push then a tendency to flip which I seem to get from 9mm). My father shoots better with his Glock 19. I think different platforms and calibers work better with some people than others (which is why it always strikes me as very important to try to find a gun to try before purchasing). That said, I certainly wouldn't turn down a chance to shoot a 9mm even though the .45acp is my favorite...haha.
NMGonzo
Member
I am better with my full size 1911 than with my CZ75 so far.
But that should not be a surprise to anyone.
But that should not be a surprise to anyone.
yhtomit
Member
Besides this (inexpert!) shooter, it seems to me the gun is more of a factor than the ammo type. Never noticed a difference in firing guns identical (or very close) except for the ammo in which they were chambered, but between dissimilar guns there's a lot to account for. Sight picture and grip, mostly.
timothy
timothy
1SOW
Member
I agree with most of the posts.
Bullseye shooters don't shoot 9mm unless things have really changed over the years.
Other than production class, action shooters have migrated to 40 cal with the 'single stack' cult still using 45acp even though higher cap mags are available. Open class sees a lot of 9 super and some 9mm luger with major PF loads for the available high capacity mags.
Assuming all high quality pistols, which is most accurate for most active 'shooters'? Probably not 9x19 luger.
Which can be shot most accurately by average shooters? Probably 9x19 luger.
Bullseye shooters don't shoot 9mm unless things have really changed over the years.
Other than production class, action shooters have migrated to 40 cal with the 'single stack' cult still using 45acp even though higher cap mags are available. Open class sees a lot of 9 super and some 9mm luger with major PF loads for the available high capacity mags.
Assuming all high quality pistols, which is most accurate for most active 'shooters'? Probably not 9x19 luger.
Which can be shot most accurately by average shooters? Probably 9x19 luger.
Last edited:
I suggest learning/practicing with the Glock trigger in that case. If you did, you'll note that the trigger is not DA at all. Fix that mental aspect of how you approach the gun and that might help you improve your accuracy.
Winkman822
Member
I find this to be an absolute subjective area. Personally, I shoot best with a .45, hold my own with 9mm and am barely acceptable with a .40 or .357 SIG. Granted, the lead delivery system for .45 for me is some variety of 1911, but I've shot 1911s chambered for .40 and just don't have the same proficiency with that snappy little round, as great as it is balistically.
Bottom line, figure out which caliber you are most comfortable and proficient with and run it as often as you can on the range or action shooting games.
Bottom line, figure out which caliber you are most comfortable and proficient with and run it as often as you can on the range or action shooting games.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,715
I'm an old fart, and I shoot a 1911 in .45 acp better than anything else.
I have owned 1911s in 9mm, 10mm and .50 GI. I have shot each "nearly as well" as the .45 acp, but "not quite" as well.
One of these days I will buy a Coonan 1911 in .357 Mag, and we'll find out.
I have owned 1911s in 9mm, 10mm and .50 GI. I have shot each "nearly as well" as the .45 acp, but "not quite" as well.
One of these days I will buy a Coonan 1911 in .357 Mag, and we'll find out.
The only precision competition that I am aware of where the 9mm has taken all the records from the .45ACP (and 1911) is Service Pistol
I have an HK P30 in 9mm that I shoot quite a bit, but I find personally that I like shooting my HK45CT in .45ACP more. The trigger on my 45 (LEM light version) is much better than my 9mm (DA/SA), and that may be some of the reason I shoot the 45 better. I began shooting a 45 when I was a kid and shot my dad's 1911 pistol. I didn't start shooting 9mm for at least 15 years later. While I like the 9mm, I prefer to go to the range to shoot the 45. They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. For me, I guess it's so!
- Status
Similar threads
