Sold all my 'small' CCW pistols

[wheelguy]

Some collective wisdom from people who have studied this appears to be...

1. # of rounds fired most often in a fight = 1.
2. Any hand gun is a poor man stopper - including .357 magnum and .45 ACP. What you need in a gun fight is a rifle.
3. If any gun appears, most BGs run.
4. Big/heavy guns are carried much less often than small/lighter guns.
5. In a fight, any gun is better than no gun.

Conclusion: The most important thing in selecting a gun to carry isn't caliber or number of rounds - it is that you will actually carry it. 2nd most important consideration - you can hit the target with it reliably. Given the answer to those questions, your choice of gun and caliber will probably have already been made.

 

[Homerboy]

If it makes you feel better to carry a big gun, then go for it. But please don't assume that smaller guns are useless. I am a retired cop, and I have seen LOTS of shootings When someone opens up with a .22, the bad guys scatter for the hills. Missing 10 times with a .45 is useless. Hitting ONCE with a .380 is much better. I carry a S&W CS9 and I'm on the hunt for something even MORE comfortable (in 9MM). I have full size guns and would never carry them concealed. I can't even imagine strapping my Beretta 92 to my hip to go to Walmart. If I'm REALLY paranoid (which I'm not), I'll throw another 7 round mag into my pocket. The VAST majority of us will go through life without even drawing a weapon in a self defense situation, much less firing it. Somebody looks down the barrel of your Ruger LCP, and they're either gonna run or die. Carrying 40 ounces on my hip or in my waistband is NOT gonna happen.

 

[Autolycus]

I agree with you. I feel better with my Glock 19 and 15+1 rounds of Speer Gold Dot. But I have friends who feel comfortable with a snub-nosed revolver or a Walther PPK. I myself just love my Glock 19 and I can carry it comfortably, so why not? Not to mention all of my guns are Glock 9mms so it is easier to stock up on one caliber. But if you feel comfortable carrying a .380 ACP or something smaller, then go ahead and carry it. Whatever makes you comfortable is what I think is best.

 

[Ally]

This thread has been an interesting read. I've seen a lot of chest-thumping, and a lot of reasonably-minded folks post. My question for the guys who won't carry anything smaller than a full-size 1911 or else they'll be "underpowered", what do all your wives carry? Anybody have a petite wife or girlfriend?

Are they able to conceal a G22 in their waistband? How about an XD45? And it's not the least bit noticeable? Hmmm.....

For the people on their soapboxes pontificating about how one shouldn't even carry or OWN a gun if it's just going to be a silly little, ineffective, pocket pistol, I have a very different perspective. I've read a LOT about "comfort carry". What about absolute concealability? I weigh about 120# and attempting to conceal one of the "big guns" is laughable.

I own two 9mm pistols, both for cc. I have taken quite a bit of training in marksmanship, as well as SD shooting with these guns. The largest gun I can safely conceal is a single-stack 9mm, so I own a PF-9. With a minituck holster, it's well-concealed for the summertime.

I also own a G26, which WAS going to be my EDC. However, the double stack stuck out like a sore thumb under any summer clothing. So that gun has been relegated to home protection, and I can cc it in the winter. Sometimes.

I just sit here a tad aghast at those of you who poo-poo smaller caliber "plastic guns". Again, what are your wives carrying?? I'm sure a lot of your wives do not carry, but I do and so do a lot of small-framed women. My very first consideration in what kind of gun to own for cc is ability to conceal; everything else works around that. Once I worked out what I am able to conceal, I bought those guns, learned how to use them, and practice regularly.

For those who think that because I'm female I could/should put a full-sized weapon in a purse, that is not a consideration at all. I believe if one is going to cc, the weapon needs to be on your body. Carrying around loaded guns in purses, bags, etc. can end up being used against you. Once the bg grabs your purse, then he's got your credit cards, etc. PLUS your gun. Then what? In my mind, the security of my weapon is as important as what I'm carrying.

As for these comments:

Originally Posted by Hastings
I can carry an N-frame in my front pocket with my shirt untucked and have nobody be the wiser, so a J-frame in a pocket holster seems perfectly reasonable unless fashion is more of an issue than security. In that case, perhaps you shouldn't be carrying at all.

Arrogant. Offensive. Short-sighted.

Originally Posted by Hastings
I simply think that many of the ultra-small, ultra-light guns on the market are ending up in the hands of people better served with a non-lethal weapon.

Ignorant.

 

[Reasoned1]

When it comes to stopping power, which is what you want when your life's in danger, statistics show that a .22 is less capable than a .380, that a .380 is less capable than a 9mm, that a 9mm is less capable than a .45, and probably so on. Sure, a .22 can kill, and an LCP might scare some surprised perps but, in preparing for the possible need to use deadly force, it makes more sense to rely on what experience tells us happens MOST of the time--not to mention simple physics. My point is that I think anyone who carries in preparation for a possible scenario where the use of deadly force is necessary to defend life and loved ones (described in most town newspapers every week, if not every day) ought to try to carry the most capable means of self-defense possible under those circumstances that individual must operate under (the stakes certainly justify it). It's fine to carry whatever mouse gun comforts you, just don't think you're actually serious about having to use it.

 

[ripp]

do you refer to "statistics" by Evan Marshall? It's been well documented that he just makes stuff up as he goes along. The few times that he HAS revealed his "sources", his claims did not match the documentation.

Pocket guns belong in pocket holsters. In a belt rig, you can have a real gun and load, so why carry a mousegun in that manner?
When I was 17 and weighed 160 lbs, I sometimes ccw'd a 7.5" barreled Cap and ball .44 revolver under a shirttail, as i rode my motorcycle and so on. It can be done. I used the calvaryman's carry, butt forward behind the off side hip. It was not fast to access, but it was with me.

That having been said, all I bother with is a Keltec PF9 in a front pants pocket rig, altho there is an SKS in the vehicle, and an M4 at home.

If you carry anything short of a hot 9mm load, be prepared to shove it up under his chin and empty the mag into his palate, cause that is quite likely what you will have to do, if just the sight of your gun does not suffice (which it does, 90% of the time)

 

[the count]

As for these comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hastings
I can carry an N-frame in my front pocket with my shirt untucked and have nobody be the wiser, so a J-frame in a pocket holster seems perfectly reasonable unless fashion is more of an issue than security. In that case, perhaps you shouldn't be carrying at all.


Arrogant. Offensive. Short-sighted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hastings
I simply think that many of the ultra-small, ultra-light guns on the market are ending up in the hands of people better served with a non-lethal weapon.

Ignorant.

Hmmm Ally, OP here... we really do not call each other ignorant or otherwise insult others on this board. You don't agree with somebody, it's your prerogative but do not think your opinion is somehow is more important and thus warrant mud slinging...

 

[Art Eatman]

Ignorant = not knowing. No big deal. I'm ignorant about astro-physics and abstract mathematics. Not the same thing as calling somebody stupid.

But six pages of arguing is way more than enough, looks like.

 

[lobo9er]

gotta side with Ally.

I challenge that the OP will carry less than someone with smaller more concealable firearms to also choose from. IMHO.

 

[Rail Driver]

I challenge that the OP will carry less than someone with smaller more concealable firearms to also choose from. IMHO.

I don't agree with this entirely. Before I got my G26 I carried a Colt 1911 Commander every day, all day. Other people may handle the situation differently, but if I've only got one gun whether it's full size, compact or subcompact, I'll be carrying. If all I have is large pistols, I'll carry a large one. If I only own small pistols I'll carry a small one. If I have both, then I'll carry large or small depending on the situation and circumstances.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I own two 9mm pistols, both for cc. I have taken quite a bit of training in marksmanship, as well as SD shooting with these guns.

My my, it was just a little while back that you were asking where to get classes. Congrats.

The largest gun I can safely conceal is a single-stack 9mm, so I own a PF-9.

I had a friend that I dated briefly who had the same problem. Even my 1911 commander looked like a howitzer in anything more snugly fitting than a circus tent on her.

I challenge that the OP will carry less than someone with smaller more concealable firearms to also choose from. IMHO.

That's a matter of opinion. I carry a glock 19 (I consider it closer to full size than compact)quite often. The days that I don't carry it, I'm carrying a glock 26. The days that I don't carry either are the days I can't legally carry at all. The last girl I dated asked to bring over a few holsters for her to try once she got her concealed carry because she remembered always being shocked to find a glock 19 on my hip despite looking me over.

I say carry the largest one you can comfortably conceal and run effectively. If that's a pf-9, fine. I'm not the biggest guy out there, but I can still wear flattering clothes and conceal a glock 19 sized sidearm so that's what I carry. I can carry it in a t shirt and shorts or jeans just fine with my build. Some days I carry the 26 when my clothes fit a little more snugly. When I carried a fullsized 1911 or commander sized 1911, I could wear pretty much anything I wanted.

To each his or her own, no need to chastise each other over it.

I do have one current problem, I have nothing to wear in gym clothes. I can't carry legally at the gym, but in-between the gym and home is a problem. Currently, I just avoid stopping or take a belt and a change of clothes.

 

[lobo9er]

If all I have is large pistols, I'll carry a large one.

I think there maybe times where it just wont be a possibilty. maybe i'm wrong.

If I have both, then I'll carry large or small depending on the situation and circumstances.

+1 I agree

To each his or her own, no need to chastise each other over it.

+1 I agree.

 

[ripp]

There's what you do if you are forced to, and there's what is handy-comfortable. The pocket 9 can handle anything that is likely to be feasible or needed, so that is what gets my vote, worn in a front pants pocket holster, with the gun hand on it, if anything seems amiss. Being the first one to get the gun "out" and pointed is worth a lot more than being the one with the big, heavy gun, trying to draw after being shot with a pocket 9.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Being the first one to get the gun "out" and pointed is worth a lot more than being the one with the big, heavy gun, trying to draw after being shot with a pocket 9.

Yeah but here's the thing, that is a two way street. Unless I'm wearing realllllly loose fitting pants with huge pockets; I can draw from concealment IWB or OWB faster than I can draw from the pocket...with any size pistol. I really, really tried very hard to work with pocket carry and found it isn't for me. Anytime I try to draw from a pocket holster on a shot timer, the results are just downright disgraceful. Whatever works for you, more power to you.

 

[MCgunner]

I plan to keep mine, and my .38 revolvers. My Kel Tec is P11, can get 12 shot mags for it, but mine are the 10 rounders. I'm not going to be laying down suppressive fire with it, after all. The P11 will pocket carry just fine and mine shoots to POA 3.5" groups off the bench at 25 yards, ultimately accurate off hand with it. Some weinies don't like the DA trigger, but I find it very nice, smooth, revolver like, if a little long. It's quite safe to carry with that DAO trigger. I'm not a Glock "safe action" fan. And, I'm so unconcerned with firepower for self defense that I often, as the last couple of weeks, carry my .38 revolver in a pocket.

I wear cargo jeans most of the time, or carpenter's jeans. They have large pockets. I walk around in parking lots and such in "condition orange" areas with my hand ON my weapon in my pocket. I think I'm faster with it there than IWB and IWB just plain sux in south Texas 11 months out of the year, anyway. It hit 101 today and the humidity is killer. Belt carry is NOT an option for me. But, it's an indiviaual call, I suppose.

 

[Homerboy]

Here's the thing: everyone who takes the time to post on forums like these is a gun enthusiast. That doesn't mean that they know what they are doing. Take a stroll over to youtube and watch some of the gun videos. MANY of those posters barely know which is the dangerous end of the gun. I laugh at the guy who maxed out his credit card at the BlackHawk website and now thinks he's an "operator" We all know what a mall ninja is and laugh at them. Problem is that mall ninjas are members of this board, and like to pass themselves off as experts. As a retired cop who has seen what bullets do to a body, a .380 to the chest is gonna put a world of hurt on the receiver and will end the fight 99% of the time. Fact is, the MAJORITY of gun owners will go their entire lives without drawing their weapon, much less firing it. You think a badguy is gonna differentiate between a .380 and a .45? Please. Making statements like "be prepared to put the muzzle of that 380 under the soft palate and have to empty the gun to end the threat" are just plain ludicrous.

 

[bimmerland]

Has anybody taken into consideration the local laws that might dictate what they carry. In the summer there is no way I can carry my G19 or G26 comfortably especially wearing shorts. If someone wants to get rid of all their CCW guns that their own choice if they can carry a large gun all the time more power to them but where I live CCW is necessary because of stringent laws that don't allow OC in my town. I would rather have my .380 then nothing at all. Plus I don't need more than a couple of JHP's to hurt anyone period.

 

[shootingthebreeze]

I like comments from retired police like Homerboy because of their experience. The comment that most people will never deploy a firearm is so true-and when adding situational awareness, avoiding "red zones" and using common sense decreases the chance of attack even further.
I like Ally's comment as well-very good points relating to women carrying.
The key is practice and weapons familiarization. The more you practice the better you will become.

 

[shootingthebreeze]

I agree with Ally relating to Hastings comments especially the one which states that light firearms should be in the hands of those who should not have a lethal weapon.
Quite shortsighted and fails to address the fact that most engagements will be at 10 feet or less. Ally's PF-9 at 10 feet or less will be deadly. In the US Army my side arm was a .45 and it was strictly to be used for close in defense, not used as an artillery piece lobbing .45 rounds at 50 meters. 10 feet or less.
If an engagement will occur and that is a great if per Homerboy, it will be close in and personal. A 9mm is going to ruin a perp's day. Ally's choice of the PF-9 is excellent-

 

[*NOVA*]

After reading 6 pages of comments on this subject I feel I am making a better informed decision. My next purchase will be a Bodyguard 380 and I intend to carry it in a pocket holster. During hot weather it is the only pracrtical solution for me. After considering all the pros and cons, to me it boils down to the fact that I have a license to conceal carry, but I do not want it to be obvious to everyone what I carry - A good pocket holster allows me to do just that. Small as it is, it might kick like a mule, but I intend to practice at the range. Practice with what I have until I am as good as I can be with that particular weapon, regardless of its limitations.

 

[shootingthebreeze]

Bigger is not necessarily better-especially in an urban environment.
Ally's choice is excellent-PF-9, 9mm, affordable, good quality as I read and easily concealed. I checked yesterday at a gun dealer $333. Not bad for a 9.
Nova, most important to understand is that engagement will be less than 10 feet. Mix that with an urban environment, bigger is not necessarily better. Homerboy brings up the fact of control-better be more accurate with a .380 or 9 than a .45.
And again, practice and weapons familiarization. Most important.

 

[SonofGilnockie89]

I carry my Glock 19 most of the time, but NEVER feel undergunned with my Kahr CW9. If I were reasonably sure I would encounter armed adversaries, I would prefer my AR over any pistol I own. Just my $0.02........which doesn't matter anymore due to inflation.

 

[doc2rn]

I am just waiting on the PMR 30, and for those of us who have recoil sensitivity some of the smaller mouse guns are ideal.

 

[wheelguy]

Doc - You're going to love the PMR-30 for fixing the recoil sensitivity problem.

I own both the PMR-30 and Five-seveN, and the PMR-30 kicks noticeably less. Just be sure to polish the chamber to prevent FTFs.

Both work well at 6:00, but may also work at 11:00 or 4:00 depending on dress and body shape.

 

[ojibweindian]

I'd like to weigh in, although it's a bit late into the discussion.

I've messed around with small-ish pistols, and have found that a small gun gets "lost" in my large hands when drawing from concealed. Also, because small guns are, well, small, things like slide stops, safeties, etc are kind of packed in with each other closely, making manipulation an exercise in fumbling futility, especially when done at speed.

Fortunately, God has blessed me with a generally mesomorphic body type, though a bit out of shape (a condition I am correcting), and I've no problem in concealing full-sized handguns. So, instead of railing against what I've been dealt, I chose to "go with the flow" and carry large framed pistols.

That being said, I do, occasionally, have to go small. When I do, I carry a J-Frame S&W Model 60 snubby. With it, I don't have to worry about accidentally engaging the slide stop, safety, or mag release. My only real issue is that there are only 5 rounds of 38 Special on tap; that's really mostly a "mental" thing on my part.

Personally, I do think that there's a place in everyone's collection for a small CCW type weapon. For many, a small CCW piece is just fine as an everyday thing, and for others, such as myself, it serves well when one absolutely cannot be made.