Cap and Ball and personal defence.

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There was a time when I didn't have shotguns for home defense. I was younger and my mother wasn't too keen on me having "real" firearms, not even a .22 short rifle.

She was totally fine with cap and ball though. :) After all, they don't take cartridges so they must not be "real" guns! :rolleyes: So that's what I kept safe but within my immediate access for a defensive firearm.

Nowadays I've got plenty of suitable firearms for home defense. But I still keep my old reliable Remington New Model Army handy along with a few other surprises. It's reliable, powerful, and soft lead balls are positively nasty.
 
The quality of the steel in the Walker cylinders was the main culprit in their failure.

I agree with the post stating that loading a conical backwards should have nothing to do with pressures. If it does, maybe someone can explain. This has been stated for years as a fact (concerning Walkers) without credible documentation to back it up.

As far as modern projectiles being loaded that way - one of the more popular SD .38 rounds in the 80s was the hollow based wad cutter loaded backwards.
 
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PRM,

Thanks for the assist and .38 SPL HBWC backwards was popular earlier than that. I knew folks that used them In the 1960's and bet they were first tried a few minutes after the first HBWC was formed.

During WWI the Germans sometimes pulled the bullet on a 8mm Mauser and reloaded it backwards because for some reason it seemed to penetrate armor plate better. Some folks like Mac Bride accused the Germans of doing this to create a "dum-dum" effect.

Seriously in the 1980's one guy I knew ONLY shot .45ACP bullets backwards in his NMA. For lack of round ball locally I have been tempted myself and plan to call him and ask about his loads soon.

-kBob
 
I was given some .45 cal SWC's that didn't seat well in my ROA. After reading several threads in which people were loading them backwards I had to try it. Worked well and was about as accurate as everything else I've shot through it.
 
For HOME defense IMHO a Howdah 20 gauge double cb pistol or 12 gauge sxs cb shottie loaded with candleshot (buck and ball in a beeswax matrix) would be adequate for defending the hacienda from "name your flavor" zombie...very quick to reload with pyrodex pellets and custom charge tubes. If you somehow miss you might still set the intruder on fire at close range. :)
 
Like was said, Wild Bill counted upon them! Yes even in a day when the cartrige was a proven preformer. You'd think that a man with Hickocks experience would have gone for the latest technolical advance, but he still chose to depend on C&Ball revolvers! That says a lot for them!
with todays measuring and testing methods you could easilly get the on-paper preformance readouts but what about the 'REAL WORLD" results? Obviouslly Hickock seemed to think that BP and the C&Baction was good enough.
Was it penetration? Definatelly not muzzle energy. Accuracy with a good open top Colt could be very foos! ANother thing, WHY a .26 caliber instead of a .44 army? was the Navy quicker to draw and get on target faster?
There is a bunch of questions and noone seemed to have ever asked the great man! If tou could only go bacl in time and really find out eh?
BPDave
 
One would think that in the days of cavalry the 44 was need to disable/kill horses as well as men. Not many horses in the Navy so the smaller, higher velocity .36 was for knocking men from the rigging. Just a thought on my part with no basis of fact. But I do know Capt. Walker wanted a .45 for just that reason over the .36 Paterson. I said .45 because a .454 is a 45 cal. why the term 44 is used is anbodys guess.

Remember the 1860 Army was a redsigned .36 Navy. The Army stayed with the dragoons up untill then.
 
Abord. Ship space was at a premium,so smaller guns and ammo took up
Less space as long as it did the job and killed well
I think that ii
S why the navy stuck with the .36val.
BPDave
 
Well it was this-a-way.

Long before the 1860 Army was introduced both services were buying 1851 Navy's (Colt called it their "Belt Model) but the Army also bought Dragoons (That Colt called a "Holster Model" - saddle holster that is). The Navy had very little use for saddles.

After the Civil War the Navy had what 1851 Navy revolvers they had in inventory that were still serviceable converted to metallic cartridge (.38 Long Colt) and continued to use them until 1888 when they bought some new Colt Hand Ejectors. In 1892 the Army changed over to a slightly improved revolver of the kind the Navy had.

The reason the Navy stuck with the 1851 model was because they didn't see any reason to buy new ones as long as the old ones worked, and given the service they saw most of them lasted for a long time. :D
 
PRM wrote "The quality of the steel in the Walker cylinders was the main culprit in their failure."

Steel?

Jim
 
"Mild Steel," "Wrought Iron," ... whatever. Bottom line it had more to do with inferior metallurgy than anything else.
 
Back in the 70s I packed
a 36 High Standard Griswold and Gunnison.
Loaded with FFF greased with gasoline.
Worked 100 percent for 3 to 4 months.
I picked up a M28 4inch when I became became 21
Being in the U.S.N. made no difference than.
 
wild bill stuck with cap and ball revolver because the early cartridges had problems with the priming compound .
 
I'm in complete agreement with Old Fuffs comments about the Colt SAA and carrying with the firing pin between the rims. I had never heard of it when I had mine, and thought I was pretty clever for figuring it out. After carrying my guns, (as in put it on in the morning with your clothes and wear it all day, day in and day out) I found the cylinder had turned and the firing pin was resting on a primer several times. The hammer had positively not been snagged by anything and allowed to turn, it was carried in a tightly fitted half flap holster. Nothing could have contacted the hammer. This was a 44 spl and a 45 Colt SAA. I found the cylinder turned several times before I wised up and stopped trying to be so clever.

The admonition to carry 5 rounds in a single action came long before Bill Ruger was even born, let alone built a gun.

The particular problem Elmer Keith mentioned was saddling a horse, and the stirrup falling off and hitting the hammer spur, shearing the sear and firing the gun. Keith wrote he knew of a couple or more people himself that had that happen. They ended up with a bullet in their leg.

I'm not sure where the idea came about that only the Navy used the "Navy" pistol. The term "Navy" was common because of the naval battle scene on the cylinder, not because the Navy was the only branch that used them. I don't recall the figures, but I'm sure the army bought far more of them than the Navy did. Fuff is again correct in this regard.
 
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How does a stirrup fall off a saddle ? I worked with horses for decades and never even heard of this happening . I guess if your not smart enough to check your gear after putting the horse away.
 
When cinching up, tossing the near side stirrup over the saddle to tighten the cinch. Not fall completely off the saddle, slip off from being tossed over.


BTW, I also know a guy that had an old model Ruger 22 that he was carrying loaded with 6 when doing fence work. It was in the "safety" notch, not resting directly on the round. He managed to hit the hammer somehow while working, it put a bullet in his leg, he was far enough out, and it took long enough to get in and get help that he lost the leg.
 
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One time in my life I felt the need to carry a handgun for my life protection .
About the only thing I had was my old Ruger 4 3/4 barrel Blackhawk in 45 Colt.
I practiced several weeks firing from the hip and trying to hit something. I was
re-loading at the time and wanted something I could control and could get fast
repete hits. Distance, about 5-7 yds. The best for me and the most accurate for
repete hits fast was , you guessed it, Black Powder. Back then, DuPont now
Goex was the only thing you could get. There were no subs. I used the Keith
255 gr SWC and 37 grs of DuPont FFF. This was far better than 8 grs Unique.
That it was, and I'm still here 43 years later.
 
are there any documented cases of cap and ball being used in a self defense situation in the last 20 years?
 
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