Captain America Returns. This Time, Packin' Heat!

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I just remembered that Batman used to carry a gun, but that was retconned out of continuity. Batman doesn't kill the bad guys, so batarangs became his long-ranged weapons.
When did Batman "used to" carry a gun? I'n not admitting to being old, but I have been a potential AARP member for longer than I care to think about. I read Batman and Superman comics religiously as a young sprout, and Batman never carried (or used) a gun.
 
Cable has used regular guns as well. He's been using telepathy and telekenisis the last few years. But still uses guns. Bishop, is from a wartorn future. Of course he uses guns...but theyve been of the raygun variety. He's now a cop (detective) in Mutanttown, NYC...I assume he carries a gun.

Cyclops, actually...in a big turn last year..started using a pistol (a 1911 IIRC) for his weapon of choice. He lost his optic blasts...and shot and killed a villian in the back. He started carrying it as a sidearm. He had a change of demeanor and became a certifiable badass. I dunno what has happened lately. Now, I'm all for Cyc using a sidearm (or even the new Cap for taht matter--he did so in WWII). BUt I tihkn the issue is making a gun as part of the uniform of CAp. Just doesn't fit and seems lame to make a cultural icon more "edgy." Cyclops isn't inhibited with being such an icon.
 
You have mentioned all things that are products of the suit...not the man. Cpt America has jumped out of planes and never uses chutes (or fancy energy shields and 25th century suits). Fall off a cliff in Halo...and MC dies. Reentry? Either 1) convenience of narrative flow or 2)the suit, the suit, the suit! Throw Cpt America in a Mjolnir MK VI. Or heck, we actually haven't seen MC do reentry without an ODST droppod onscreen in any of the games! He fell from a covenant ship onto IN AMber Clad in H2. We found him in a jungle in H3. We assume he fell from orbit...he could have fallen from much, ,much lower. Either way, we KNOW he dies if he falls down certain cliffs.

MC being American is all conjecture on your part. He was born off world. He's not even in the UNSC Marines...he's in the UNSC NAVY. And lineage is one thing...but CPT STeve Rogers is a commissioned officer in the US ARMY. The UNSC is a UNITED NATIONS military. I love Halo3, but at the end of the day you're playing a blue helmeted SAILOR. Cpt America fought Nazis fer crying out loud. Are you honestly tellng me that MC is "more AMerican" than Captain America? Seriously?

And his shield ain't razor. It's physics. It's a "simple" adamantium shield. If a brute can punch MC to death.... If a needler can kill MC... If MC can only engage targets out to 300 m or so with his "sniper rifle"...

Have I nerded out your screens?
MC is much more than his suit. Though it isn't shown in the games (that's because they'd be much too easy if it were), MC can fall from quite large heights. He re-entered in his suit, as there was no drop-pod onboard the forerunner craft that he came back to Earth on, and we saw him split off of the ship as it re-entered. MC has extremely hard bones and extremely enhanced muscle. He can lift a dump truck without his armor. He's probably on par with Captain America without the suit, so he'd kick the Captain's butt with it on. I'm not saying the Chief is more American than Captain America, because that's not true. But the Captain'd be a fool not to use firearms. Especially not big ones, considering he can carry them.
 
MC is much more than his suit. Though it isn't shown in the games (that's because they'd be much too easy if it were), MC can fall from quite large heights. He re-entered in his suit, as there was no drop-pod onboard the forerunner craft that he came back to Earth on, and we saw him split off of the ship as it re-entered. MC has extremely hard bones and extremely enhanced muscle. He can lift a dump truck without his armor. He's probably on par with Captain America without the suit, so he'd kick the Captain's butt with it on. I'm not saying the Chief is more American than Captain America, because that's not true. But the Captain'd be a fool not to use firearms. Especially not big ones, considering he can carry them.

No, he can die falling certain heights from the game not because it'd make it too easy...but for gameplay reasons...Edges of maps, etc.

Again, both can shrug off bullets with their shields. You've missed my Hulk and Giant Man and Colonel points. As I've said, Cap can and does use guns often. For superhuman enemies that can dodge, shrug off, or even be completely impervious to bullets, good ol' hand-to-superhuman-hand is what it ends up with. MC couldn't take on the Hulk. Cap America can.

Heck, even if it were a gunfight. Seriously, MC has never fired at anything more than 100m (maybe 200) away with his "sniper rifle" in the game. Imagine a gunfight...MC is too slow to dodge, but his shields would soak up anything and everything. Cap would dodge and deflect anything with his shield. It would be an impasse until Cap closed in, which he's used to doing--MC would continue firing his twin SMGs...always hitting where Cap was a fraction of a second earlier. Cap woud end up closing with and destroying the enemy as any good soldier would... Now, MC can melee him and if caught by surprise, Cap would certainly be hurting. But he'd be back sidestepping everything and landing a killing blow at a relatively unprotected neck.

Again, with the MC's games and Cap's comics as reference, Cap is faster, and much, much more agile. And he's a cultural icon. Not a mere videogame character. Geek fight! Geek fight! :)
 
In that bottom picture, the gun has no sights. And his finger is on the trigger in all of them. Cap had better work on gun safety.

Not if you are the badguy and he is the last thing you ever see...
 
Yeah, BUcky is most likely the next in line.

Oh, and I was just thinking re: MC vs. Captain America. The O-3 would just tell the E-9 to stand down. The MCPO would huff and puff and kick something...but eventually say "yes, sir." :) Actually, thats all out of character...MC would just do it without saying anything...Cortana, in his head, might try and egg on a fight...but MC would just stand at attn.

Or, as all comic versus fights are, the two get into a mtach under mistaken circumstances. Cap blocks gunfire with his shield, so MC throws sticky grenade on it. Cap throws shield at MC, grenade explodes, enegy shields down. If he's lucky, the caps shield sliced through MC's neck...if not...CAp kicks him in the head (he hasn't stopped running all this while). :)

ETA: I just rewatched the end of H2. THere is no indication at all of MC jumping from orbit. He's merely on the forerunner ship. Yes, it's implied by the beginning of H3....but we do not know how high he really jumped. Cap has jumped from relatively low paratrooper altitudes without a chute...hitting the ground running.
 
No, he can die falling certain heights from the game not because it'd make it too easy...but for gameplay reasons...Edges of maps, etc.
Sure, that's similar to what I was saying.
Again, both can shrug off bullets with their shields. You've missed my Hulk and Giant Man and Colonel points. As I've said, Cap can and does use guns often. For superhuman enemies that can dodge, shrug off, or even be completely impervious to bullets, good ol' hand-to-superhuman-hand is what it ends up with. MC couldn't take on the Hulk. Cap America can.
MC vs. Hulk = MC just BRs Hulk in the head. Game over. If you want to take it into fisticuffs, well then MC'd throw a Scorpion at him (which, I'd remind you, is heavier than a Bradley).
MC vs. Giant Man = Pretty much the same scenario as MC vs. a Scarab: he'd get on it and find some way to plant a bomb on the darn thing. If he couldn't find a sufficiently large enough bomb, well then he'd probably give him a lobotomy with an energy sword. Or, he'd just do what the Capt. did and shove a building onto him.
MC vs. Captain America (or the Colonel, your pick) = MC puts a 14.5mm bullet through his head at 1000 yards (which is the stated effective range of the SRS99D-S2 AM Sniper Rifle). By the way, this is the Russian 14.5x114mm HMG bullet only sniper grade and with a 9mm APFDS. True story. You don't want that perfectly legitimate scenario? Fine, MC and the Cap'n get into combat within 200 yards. The Cap'n charges at MC, maybe he picks up an Assault Rifle and fires at MC, MC either takes cover or just absorbs s bit of the burst, but then he uses the Energy Sword to slice through the Cap'n's shield and the Cap'n. Game over.
Heck, even if it were a gunfight. Seriously, MC has never fired at anything more than 100m (maybe 200) away with his "sniper rifle" in the game. Imagine a gunfight...MC is too slow to dodge, but his shields would soak up anything and everything. Cap would dodge and deflect anything with his shield. It would be an impasse until Cap closed in, which he's used to doing--MC would continue firing his twin SMGs...always hitting where Cap was a fraction of a second earlier. Cap woud end up closing with and destroying the enemy as any good soldier would... Now, MC can melee him and if caught by surprise, Cap would certainly be hurting. But he'd be back sidestepping everything and landing a killing blow at a relatively unprotected neck.
Who says MC never fired at anything over 100m? Sure, pretty much nobody has while playing him, but we also do stupid things like walk off the edge of maps. You can't measure MC's ability just by the people who play him.
I'd also like to say that MC can melee a tank to death.
Again, with the MC's games and Cap's comics as reference, Cap is faster, and much, much more agile. And he's a cultural icon. Not a mere videogame character. Geek fight! Geek fight!
Again, you can't judge MC's ability by the people who play him. He is distinctly better than what you see in game. Why? Because it'd be nigh impossible to program a game to do all the things he can do. Hell, it's hard to program a game to get him to jump properly, much less pull stunts. And, I don't know about you, but I've never seen the Cap'n on half the things in my peripheral. I mean, you couldn't go anywhere before the launch of Halo 3 without seeing the Chief. Sounds like a cultural icon to me.
 
Again, you can't judge MC's ability by the people who play him. He is distinctly better than what you see in game.
So we're not basing his abilities on what we've seen? Does this contest not seem loaded to you? Maybe I can say Captain America can throw flames out of his rear end...sure you've never seen that in his books before, but trust me...he can.

And shooting Hulk in the head? That's not even the equivalent of a gnat in his eye. And the Bradley didn't stop him BTW...

And as for cultural icons. Again, I am bringin up America. Are you really gonna come in here and tell me because you see him on billboards that MC is more relevant to American culture than Captain America? Really? I thought you admitted to this already. Are we really arguing that the MC, a character from a first-person-shooter created in the 2000s is a "cultural icon" in the league of a WWII propaganda character with 60 years of history? I haven't seen Bugs Bunny on a billboard lately. hmm...MC ownz. HEck this thread alone....where was the thread that sprouted up when MC learned to dual wield? Where was the thread on THR that trumpeted the return of the Halo assault rifle? Uh...maybe because he's a flash-in-the pan video game character (admittedly one from a very, very well made series)? Outside of 8-30year old boys, can "Master CHief" really mean anything to anyone but a 40-something senior NCO who's bound to a desk?

Truthfully I'm not seeing which argument you're sticking to. First, it's MC can beat CAp. (I say no; I get news of superiority from the "fact" he's better outside of the medium he is known for: games) Then it's simply that Cap should use a gun. (I repeat ad naseum that he does) Now it's a combination of all of that AND that the MC is a bigger cultural icon. (ditto) All of these have been dropped and/or adhered to with varying degrees of interest. So which is it?

Plainly, I will reiterate: Cap can outshoot, outrun, and outclass MC. And he's true blue American Army. Take your UN sanctioned bullpup or raygun...I'll keep his official 1911 officers sidearm.

hehe. I am a nerd.


ETA: No, Hulk is not a hunter. A hunter is merely cannon fodder. Again, a hunter can be taken down with guns. Hulk cannot. :)
 
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Oh I forgot to add of course MC isn't American he isn't even from EARTH and may have never even been to America. After all the only times we see him on earth is in Africa.
 
Nolo: I take it you've read the books, as well? :neener:


The way MC was in the books was basically Captain America with MJOLNIR armor on. The guy was singled out as a kid for his warrior spirit, and he was trained from the age of four or five to be the perfect soldier. He was then medically enhanced. Without the suit, he and Captain America would be about equal. With it, and the edge goes to Master Chief.
 
The way MC was in the books was basically Captain America with MJOLNIR armor on. The guy was singled out as a kid for his warrior spirit, and he was trained from the age of four or five to be the perfect soldier. He was then medically enhanced. Without the suit, he and Captain America would be about equal. With it, and the edge goes to Master Chief.

I might agree with that. Debatable...but within acceptable argument.

I've read the books as well. My favorite was the FLood because of the ODST story away from the game. It also didn't endlessly bother me with officers saluting enlisted men or sailors being called marines (that's little "m" becasue they aren't US Marines) or anything like that. I loved the MAC guns in the books. I really liked Kurt's story in Onyx. I really like the Spartan-IIIs....scrappy lil guys.
 
So we're not basing his abilities on what we've seen? Does this contest not seem loaded to you? Maybe I can say Captain America can throw flames out of his rear end...sure you've never seen that in his books before, but trust me...he can.
No, there's an enormous amount of Bungie canon out there on what MC can and can't do, how he was enhanced and what the armor does to him.
Let's go into a little background:
John (Master Chief, Spartan-117, whatever you want to call him) was abducted by the Office of Naval Intelligence at age six, at which time, without any enhancements, he stood a foot taller than his classmates and could take on some adults in wrestling combat. He was also a master of the game "King of the Hill". He could conquer the best chess champions without much difficulty. His last name was replaced with a number, 117, and he was inducted into the SPARTAN-II program. There, John was further trained physically and mentally as a UNSC soldier. When he was fourteen, he began the physical augmentation program that would make him enormously strong and fast. These include:
Carbide ceramic ossification: advanced material: special metal and ceramic layers, grafting onto skeletal structure to make bones virtually unbreakable. Recommended coverage not to exceed 3 percent total bone mass because of significant white blood cell necrosis. Specific risk for pre- and near-post pubescent adolescents: skeletal growth spurts may cause irreparable bone pulverization.
Muscular enhancement injections: protein complex is injected intramuscularly to increase tissue density and decrease lactase recovery time. Risk: 5 percent of test subjects experience a fatal cardiac volume increase.
Catalytic thyroid implant: platinum pellet containing human growth hormone catalyst is implanted in the thyroid to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues, suppressed sexual drive. Risk: rare instances of elephantiasis.
Occipital capillary reversal: submergence and boosted blood vessel flow beneath the rods and cones of subject’s retina. Produces a marked visual perception increase. Risk: retinal rejection and detachment. Permanent blindness.
Superconducting fabrication of neural dendrites: alteration of bioelectrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. Three hundred percent increase in subject’s reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity. Risk: significant instances of Parkinson’s disease and Fletcher’s syndrome.
You out-nerded yet?
Basically, this is what John-117 can do without his armor:
-Capable of running at speeds exceeding 55 KPH (34.155 MPH). SPARTAN-087 was capable of running faster than the rest. Later on, SPARTAN-117 runs at around 105 KPH (65.205 MPH) during a MJOLNIR MARK V training exercise.
-Capable of lifting three times their body weight due to increased muscle density (John-117 weighs about 230lbs without the suit).
-Virtual night vision.
-Reaction times of 20 milliseconds. Significantly faster in combat situations.
-Capable of unprecedented teamwork that resembled "telepathy".
-No physiological or mental instabilities.
These current results were only a few months after augmentation, CPO Mendez himself said that the Spartans will only get better as they adjust to the augmentation. Therefore the only true one is that the Spartans can exceed speeds of 55 KPH (34.155 MPH). These abilities were completely independent of the MJOLNIR armor, which only further augmented the Spartans' unprecedented capabilities.
By the way, this is all from Halopedia (www.halo.wiki.com), the official source for Halo material.
So, yeah, he kicks butt even without his armor.
And shooting Hulk in the head? That's not even the equivalent of a gnat in his eye. And the Bradley didn't stop him BTW...
Ummm... if it can go through MC's helmet, it can go through the Hulk's head. I'm sorry, but MC's armor is like a tank. Literally.
And as for cultural icons. Again, I am bringin up America. Are you really gonna come in here and tell me because you see him on billboards that MC is more relevant to American culture than Captain America? Really? I thought you admitted to this already. Are we really arguing that the MC, a character from a first-person-shooter created in the 2000s is a "cultural icon" in the league of a WWII propaganda character with 60 years of history? I haven't seen Bugs Bunny on a billboard lately. hmm...MC ownz. HEck this thread alone....where was the thread that sprouted up when MC learned to dual wield? Where was the thread on THR that trumpeted the return of the Halo assault rifle? Uh...maybe because he's a flash-in-the pan video game character (admittedly one from a very, very well made series)? Outside of 8-30year old boys, can "Master CHief" really mean anything to anyone but a 40-something senior NCO who's bound to a desk?
I never said MC was an American icon, I said he was a cultural icon. Who's culture? The gamer culture. Which, I might remind you, makes up a significant percent of the population of the world.
Truthfully I'm not seeing which argument you're sticking to. First, it's MC can beat CAp. (I say no; I get news of superiority from the "fact" he's better outside of the medium he is known for: games) Then it's simply that Cap should use a gun. (I repeat ad naseum that he does) Now it's a combination of all of that AND that the MC is a bigger cultural icon. (ditto) All of these have been dropped and/or adhered to with varying degrees of interest. So which is it?
I never said MC was a bigger cultural icon, only that he was one. The argument that I'm sticking too is the one that came up directly after me wondering why Cap'n didn't use guns as standard. Which was that MC can beat the Cap'n. I mean, hell, the very fact that MC's armor is camouflaged (if a bit shiny, I've always wondered why...) is kind of a testament to his businesslike attitude when compared to Captain America.
Plainly, I will reiterate: Cap can outshoot, outrun, and outclass MC. And he's true blue American Army. Take your UN sanctioned bullpup or raygun...I'll keep his official 1911 officers sidearm.
Ray-gun? You do know that the MA5C Assault Rifle is chambered for 7.62x51 NATO, right? An American cartridge? By the way, the UNSC was only formed by the United Nations, it is now run by the UEG. And MC's second-favorite weapon is the Magnum, a .50-caliber pistol. I mean, forgive me if I don't exactly argue for 1911s in the 26th century. Plus the M6 pistol series has been in service with the UNSC for 116 years. So, yeah. You want legacy? Go with the M6.
Y'know what's really funny? I'm not a Halo buff. I haven't played through any of the games all the way. I don't own any of them. Weird.
 
Nolo,
You know the halo wiki is not official right? As in not written by bungie. And you gloss over the fact it is a wiki....i.e. not official by the very nature of its ability to be edited by anyone. Or maybe you use wikipedia for your research papers? I can easily edit the MC page right now and add "Captain America ownz all"...ould that make it official?

You'd have been better off citing the books. Which are official.

AS for the stats you have gave. Sorry...I'm gonna have to use, I dunno, the GAMES as canon. Irrational, I know. He certainly isn''t running 100 kph.... Even the books, which have several other survivng Spartans (II's and IIIs which havent even been mentioned in the games)...if bungie can pick and choose, we have to stick with the games as canon.

I am a Halo nut. And a comic book one. You're not a comic book nerd. You admit to not being a Halo one even. So, why insist on the capabilities of fictional characters you haven't invested in? Bullets cant go through the Hulk's head. Even future ones. and "raygun"? Must I be literal? Ok, I meant Plasma Rifle...or Covenant Carbine. Are we throwing the caliber around in this fictional character measuring contest? Fine. MC can have .308, as you noted (but having 60..0r 32....308 rounds in that MA5 package is impossible, really)...Cap can use a Garand... .30-06.

My point is that the "winner" seems to be however you stack the deck. Wanna throw in plasma swords? Fine...but cap can certainly pick one up too, etc. I am ok with another poster's claim about them being roughly equal, the suit perhaps giving an edge.
 
Nolo,
You know the halo wiki is not official right? As in not written by bungie. And you gloss over the fact it is a wiki....i.e. not official by the very nature of its ability to be edited by anyone. Or maybe you use wikipedia for your research papers? I can easily edit the MC page right now and add "Captain America ownz all"...ould that make it official?
I apologize, that was a mis-statement, but it cites its sources and has official links. All of that info is from the books.
No, I do not use Wikipedia for my research papers, that was below the belt. I have never insulted your intelligence, and you would do well to not to insult mine.
As for you editing a page, a moderator (or someone like me) would quickly come on there and change it back. Such is the nature of the internet. For that matter, I can go on many websites and edit their layout by hacking them.
AS for the stats you have gave. Sorry...I'm gonna have to use, I dunno, the GAMES as canon. Irrational, I know. He certainly isn''t running 100 kph.... Even the books, which have several other survivng Spartans (II's and IIIs which havent even been mentioned in the games)...if bungie can pick and choose, we have to stick with the games as canon
Those are from the books. You know perfectly well why we can't use the games as canon, it's because of balance. If Bungie can pick and choose, so can Marvel. Tell me, which death is canon, Cap'n getting his head chopped off or him getting shot?
I am a Halo nut. And a comic book one. Bullets cant go through the Hulk's head. Even future ones. and "raygun"? Must I be literal? Ok, I meant Plasma Rifle...or Covenant Carbine. Are we throwing the caliber around in this fictional character measuring contest? Fine. MC can have .308, as you noted (but having 60..0r 32....308 rounds in that MA5 package is impossible, really)...Cap can use a Garand... .30-06.
Okay, if bullets won't go through the Hulk's head, MC can just shove a couple frags down his throat, how far do you want me to go with this?
Actually, I thought the same thing about the MA5 before, and I haven't figured out how to do 60 bullets yet, but the MA5C, the current rifle, has 32 and that's perfectly doable with a coffin magazine. And I have no idea why a Garand beats an MA5C. Same power, 8 bullets vs. 32. Who wins? (I would point out that the MA5C is much larger than current bullpups, about the size of a OICW)
My point is that the "winner" seems to be however you stack the deck. Wanna throw in plasma swords? Fine...but cap can certainly pick one up too, etc. I am ok with another poster's claim about them being roughly equal, the suit perhaps giving an edge.
Sure, that's how all superhero battles work. That's why they make such great debates, because they NEVER end. As for the suit, that has been my point the whole time. MC=Cap'n + Iron Man's suit + guns.
My final conclusion:
I think Cap'n should ditch the RW&B and get some camo and pick up an SR-25
 
Sorry, nolo, I didn't mean any disparaging remark on intelligence. I was talking about wikis in general and giving an example. I didn't mean it to be about you....it wasn't.

And grenades down the throat? two problems. He couldn't get that close. And I'm not sure that would do anything.

One more caveat. .308 =/= .30-'06.

I personally am a much bigger fan of the battle rifle.
 
Oh and I'm using games as canon becasue that's the MC's medium. Do we use the low budget Captain America movie as canon? It was after all put out by Marvel. How about The Star Wars Christmas Special? That was official. Is that canon? We can disregard much of the books because it's the fact of the matter that we already do. The books are contrary to many things in the games. Bungie itself distances itself from certain plot points, data, etc thats from the books. MC's medium is the games. As Captain America's is the comic books. Most everything else is apocryphal. It's upto the reader to retain or not. The books had one or two fleeting refernces to the UNSC Army...the games have it suspiciously missing. It's nice to make-believe that the Army is hunkering down in other cities outside of New MOmbasa...and has made valiant stands on other worlds...and the Ranger BNs are still functioning in the 26th century....but all of that is personal speculation and wishful thinking. True, those are quotes from teh books above. But so is Col Ackerson, Vice Admiral Witcomb, Spartan-IIIs, etc,etc...none appearing or mentioned in the game.
 
Sorry, nolo, I didn't mean any disparaging remark on intelligence. I was talking about wikis in general and giving an example. I didn't mean it to be about you....it wasn't.
Fair enough, no apology is needed if it wasn't meant that way. I trust Wiki as much as I trust any source. That is to say, not very much.
And grenades down the throat? two problems. He couldn't get that close. And I'm not sure that would do anything.
Well, then the Hulk is effectively invincible. So neither the Cap'n nor MC could kill him.
One more caveat. .308 =/= .30-'06.
Not at their maximums, no, but the Garand can't fire the maximum load that you can get with a .30-06. It fires a load nearly identical to .308 Winchester/7.62x51 NATO.
I personally am a much bigger fan of the battle rifle.
I usually don't need to zoom in, so AR for me. More power, more responsive, and a better CQC weapon. Which is what I try to get anyway.
Oh and I'm using games as canon becasue that's the MC's medium. Do we use the low budget Captain America movie as canon? It was after all put out by Marvel. How about The Star Wars Christmas Special? That was official. Is that canon? We can disregard much of the books because it's the fact of the matter that we already do. The books are contrary to many things in the games. Bungie itself distances itself from certain plot points, data, etc thats from the books. MC's medium is the games. As Captain America's is the comic books. Most everything else is apocryphal. It's upto the reader to retain or not. The books had one or two fleeting refernces to the UNSC Army...the games have it suspiciously missing. It's nice to make-believe that the Army is hunkering down in other cities outside of New MOmbasa...and has made valiant stands on other worlds...and the Ranger BNs are still functioning in the 26th century....but all of that is personal speculation and wishful thinking. True, those are quotes from teh books above. But so is Col Ackerson, Vice Admiral Witcomb, Spartan-IIIs, etc,etc...none appearing or mentioned in the game.
Which is fair enough, as long as you understand the limitations that are inherent in the game and prevent the "reality" (if you can call it that) of MC's power level to be reached.
But you know who could kick MC's butt?
Link. Because he has to win. He's the Hero of Time.;)
 
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