Carbine for Home Defense??

[Guillermo]

Gotta love it. An 82 year old woman who loves a Beretta CX4 Storm.

God Bless America!

To answer your question, it is not only very good for home defense but it sounds like Momma handles it well. While I am not a huge fan of 9mm, you are maximizing its potential by shooting it out of a long barrel.

Load it with your favorite defense rounds and be sure to call before you drop in on Mom!

 

[Navy87Guy]

moved the charging handle over to the right side, so it runs closely enough like her favorite Marlin Model 60 that she doesn't have to worry about admin stuff. I got a half dozen 20-round 92 magazines with the spacers that fit them to the carbine's magazine well, so they can't be overinserted.

Thanks for the great report! Funny, the first thing I did was move the charging handle to the left. Even though I'm a righty, I found it awkward and difficult to operate on the right side (especially compared to my AKs).

I have five 17-rd MecGar mags, two 15-rd factory mags, four 15-rd factory mags with a +1 extension on them, and two 10-rd factory mags. If I make my 92G Vertec the "go to" gun, then they are all interchangeable with the CX4.

Now I just have to figure out the new mounting scheme in the bedroom!

Jim

 

[GSPKurt]

I have the Storm carbine in .40 cal. I love it, and use it for home defense with a Surefire light and a red dot.

 

[Navy87Guy]

I just got done installing the EOTech on the CX 4. I need to take it to the range to zero it, but it looks pretty close (maybe a little high). Next will be a light, then I need to figure out how I'm going to mount them in the closet.

Jim

 

[Fred Fuller]

I put the charging handle on the right because mom had trouble operating it with her left hand. On the right side she can manage it easier, bracing the butt against her body to give resistance. We tried the HiPoint 9mm carbine, she could run it but I wanted something with a bigger magazine. With the Kel Tek Sub2000, and she had trouble operating the charging handle. So we tried the Beretta, and it worked well for her.

Re. reliability of the 20-round Beretta magazines, I didn't find that a worry. Some friends at Ft. Bragg used hundreds of them in extensive training in years gone by and had few magazine related problems. I did make sure to get the spacers for all of the magazines I bought though, since it is possible to drive them into the magazine well past the magazine catch without spacers in place.

lpl/nc

 

[ctdonath]

I use an 11.5" AR with a suppressor. Seems the best balance of all factors: rifle caliber power in a pistol carbine sized package, exhibiting lowered "overpenetration".

The 5.7 could be ideal, but the design's effectiveness heavily relies on full-auto operation. The theory is to make lots of small armor-piercing holes instead of one big hole possibly stopped by soft armor. So long as 922(o) restricts us to semi-auto, 5.7 just isn't big/fast/energetic enough. It's designed for full-auto from the ground up.

 

[ozwyn]

Between low noise, little to no recoil and the biggest advantage (cheaper ammo), 9mm should do fine.

I would only detract on 5.7 mm is that there is no such thing as a cheap 5.77 weapon and ammo isn't much better.

the original poster could get cx4 storm, a m92fs pistol, extra magazines, all kinds of crazy accessories up to and including the BSG shroud, and a few thousand rounds of practice ammo and a thousand rounds of HD ammo and still be cheaper than the p90 firearm alone.

 

[Kindrox]

You will have to add me to the not getting the 5.7 for home defense crowd. It seems like there are a lot more pistols with the eternally useful combination of solidly reliable gun, good projectile ballistics, and inexpensive and widely available ammunition.

As pistols go, the 5.7 doesn’t seem to measure up in any of these categories.

I believe there is that funky looking FN carbine as well. But IIR it’s a $1.5k - $2k cheesy looking plastic toy that again seems to miss the trifecta of reliability, ballistics, and cost.

 

[30 cal slob]

i recently had the privilege of attending a multi-day (night) low-light shooting course taught by respected trainers.

night one included a brief introduction to defensive house clearing, and night two was a taste of offensive house clearing ... in a privately-owned shoothouse.

most of the participants opted to run the shoot house with pistols (5.56 carbines weren't allowed due to safety reasons). i ran the shoothouse with a pistol as well as a 9mm CAR (Rock River Arms).

anyways, based on my limited experience, I agree with Jeff White that carbines can be somewhat cumbersome to manipulate, especially around corners.

HOWEVER ...

i think a carbine has some (perhaps debatable) advantages over a pistol for low light home defense.

these are just my unbaked thoughts and impressions based on limited experience, take them with a bucket of salt:

first off, the carbine absolutely SHINES when it comes to the long shot versus a pistol. if you have to engage a target across a long room, it's much easier to place two rounds in a nice neat little hole on target than it is with a pistol, as pistols are inherently more difficult to shoot. remember, under conditions of stress (even training stress) your combat accuracy typically degrades to 50% of your range accuracy. so, i now wonder if my wife is better off using a carbine instead of a pistol.

secondly, i found the illuminated red dot sight (aimpoint comp series) a real asset under low light conditions. more comfortable on a carbine than a pistol.

thirdly, manipulating light was much easier on a carbine than a pistol. a carbine mounted white light manipulated by the support hand is MUCH easier to use under stress than using a pistol and a flashlight (where you are essentially shooting one-handed). i understand the technology is getting better with pistol lights (i.e., surefire x300) so perhaps this will change.

Just my $0.02.

p.s. you don't have to run position SUL with a carbine in a 12-man stack either.

 

[chieftain]

first off, the carbine absolutely SHINES when it comes to the long shot versus a pistol. if you have to engage a target across a long room, it's much easier to place two rounds in a nice neat little hole on target than it is with a pistol, as pistols are inherently more difficult to shoot. remember, under conditions of stress (even training stress) your combat accuracy typically degrades to 50% of your range accuracy. so, i now wonder if my wife is better off using a carbine instead of a pistol.

secondly, i found the illuminated red dot sight (aimpoint comp series) a real asset under low light conditions. more comfortable on a carbine than a pistol.

thirdly, manipulating light was much easier on a carbine than a pistol. a carbine mounted white light manipulated by the support hand is MUCH easier to use under stress than using a pistol and a flashlight (where you are essentially shooting one-handed). i understand the technology is getting better with pistol lights (i.e., surefire x300) so perhaps this will change.

Pretty good analysis.

And those advantages were only with a pistol caliber carbine, which I do like. But for serious business, you have the rifle caliber carbines, or shotguns, and now you have a much "better" fight stopping weapon, on your side.

The problem with white lights on handguns, is to use them effectively, with exception, one must use two hands. Except for their size, all other apparent advantages disappear when two hands are used in house clearing.

One questions.....did the class advise against one man house clearing?

Go figure.

Fred

 

[30 cal slob]

One questions.....did the class advise against one man house clearing?

well, interestingly, the instructor (I can't mention K*n H*ck*th*rn by name LOL) said that "it's up to you." IIRC, he said he prefers to clear his own house. Of course, this guy trains FBI/SWAT and all manner of HSLD military types in low-light CQB, so maybe he's comfortable doing it.

on the other hand, I was discouraged by Mas Ayoob (LFI 1) from clearing my own house and was advised to wait for the police to show up to clear the house. Because if you are already barricaded in a place of relative safety, you are in an advantaged position and place yourself in unnecessary danger by going after a perp in your house.

i guess the situation will dictate what you will do. clearing a house is dangerous work.

from my notes (paraphrased):

"if you're in the boonies and the nearest help is 50 miles away and the bad guy is about to cut your child's head off - you're going after him."

p.s. practice clearing your house when the wife and kids aren't home, if you have the training.

 

[mljdeckard]

How about one chambered for a pistol cartridge that isn't a pistol cartridge. (30 Carbine.)

I have said for years that an M-1 Carbine is probably the ideal HD carbine. The one I have is an heirloom, I would very much like to get another one for general use. Think about it, power range approaching a .357 mag fired from a revolver, hi-cap, small size, Much less concern about being overpowered than an AR. (I don't care how big of a fan you are. If you don't use specialized ammo, the AR WILL shred your intruder and that which is behind it.)

There IS a distinct advantage to firing a pistol round from a longer barrel. More velocity.

 

[30 cal slob]

tough to answer that question without actually training with the .30 carbine in a shoothouse setting.

house clearing involves a combination of a lot of skills that most gun owners don't have right off the bat ... including prudent use of white light, shooting on the move, and basic defensive houseclearing tactics.

w/r/t to the .30 carbine, your choice of ammo and the muzzle blast it creates could have an impact on your night vision.

i'm not sure it's as cut and dry as "well, i can shoot this thing good at the range under daytime practice conditions."

which is bitterly ironic, since crime tends to happen at night and possibly in one's own home.

 

[mljdeckard]

House clearing skills, ammo choice, flash, etc, are concerns for ALL firearms.

 

[Jeff White]

When you are faced with the actual situation where you have to clear a structure, you will find yourself in a come as you are war. You're going to fight, win or lose with the tools, both hardware and software you have at your disposal right now, not what you wish you had.

If you know a little about how to manipulate your long gun in an indoors environment, it is the more effective weapon then the handgun. If you have no training or if the environment is so restrictive to preclude the use of the long gun, obviously a hand gun is the best choice. I have had to search attics, crawl spaces, and pipe chases where it was impossible to use a long gun.

I don't recommend that anyone try to clear a structure alone. I have done it while working alone when an alarm went off and backup was unavailable, but I was being paid to do that.

I also don't recommend any ad hoc group of untrained people who have never attempted to work as team attempt to clear a structure.

Mas Ayoob has it right, the average homeowner has no business attempting to clear his own or a neighbors home. The safest option is to hole up and defend the ground you hold. If you are defending your ground, the carbine is the best weapon for just about everyone.

Jeff

 

[30 cal slob]

I also don't recommend any ad hoc group of untrained people who have never attempted to work as team attempt to clear a structure.

As an aside, I have to say ...

Watching (and being part of) a 12 man stack clear a very dark 5 room shoothouse with a long kill funnel hallway ... is just a BEAUTIFUL THING to watch and do. At 2 in the morning.

If you get the technique down right, and remember to tie all the skills together ...including avoiding the "el snatcho" trigger pull and getting shots on target ... it's like a well-choreographed ballet with a lot of bullets flying.

Not for the faint of heart, however.

And woe to the bad guys inside. The average untrained clueless bad guy is gonna get HOSED, bigtime.

SWAT knocks on my door for a raid ... I think I'll just greet them with a tray of donuts and beer (and politely ask for the warrant).

 

[strat81]

Specifically the Beretta CX4 Storm? It's what i bought my mother (in 9mm) when she began complaining of the recoil from her sawed off (18.5" barrels, 12" LOP) 20-gauge SxS that had been the 'house gun' for a couple of decades. She's only 82, of course, but still feisty. And she really likes the Storm.

Let's see pics of mom at the range! Good on your mom for refusing to be a victim!