CARRYING A CHAMBERED AUTO - OR NOT

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johnny blaze

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I have seen several threads on whether you should carry a auto with a round in the chamber, or should not carry a auto with a round in the chamber.
I have comne to a conclusion that I probably should not carry a auto with a round in the chamber. I used to think that I should, but there was a day that changed my mind.
In the military, I did not feel safe without a round in the chamber.
I attended a sale of state surplus property. I went there to buy a car. They had about 37 Crown Vics, plus other items. The Crown Vics were from the State Patrol.
We started looking at the cars, and in one of the first cars, I noticed that there was a hole through the seat on the drivers right hand side. I thought to myself, I have never noticed bullet holes in the seat of a car before.
I checked out every car, and found 3 with bullet holes through the right side, and one with a bullet hole through the left side.
I always wondered how many law officers have had accidental discharges of their firearms.
I know that the officers are trained very well, and this was just not acceptable. It went through my mind many times, and I made the decision that I am not going to carry a chambered auto in a in the pants holster, or probably any other type of holster.
I have started leaving the chamger empty. I can chamber a round fairly fast, and it is ready to go.
I figure that if the troopers are constantly carrying their 40 calibers, and I find that percentage of holes through the floor boards, that it could very well happen to me, and I really do not want that.
Just my observation and opinion.
 
If you follow the four rules and pay attention every time you holster your weapon, there is no reason not to carry with a round chambered.
 
I have started leaving the chamger <sic> empty
Click to expand...

If you do not feel you can safely carry a gun without accidentally firing it, then your decision to leave the chamber empty is the correct one.

If you think that the firearm is going to self-fire at random intervals, then you should consider not carrying at all.

Doing either on the basis of your observations of LEO cars would be a mistake. There are many fine LEOs on this board, and they'll be the first to tell you that some of their contemporaries are not firearm-savvy.

Put another way, don't make the decision on getting your pilot's license by observing folks who just crashed. There's a bit more to it than that.

FWIW
 
If you don't think you can carry with one in the chamber, then by all means do not do it. To each his own.

I have zero fear of doing so. Gun in holster + finger OFF of trigger = zero discharges.

I have a feeling some of those bullet holes could have been caused by officers re-holstering after a stressful situation, or who knows what else. Don't confuse civilian carry with LEO carry. The only time I'll be re-holstering is if I've just emptied the mag into COM and achieved slidelock, in which case there won't be a round in the chamber to discharge anyway.
 
What's the gaurantee you'll have use of your off hand? Could be broken, cut crushed, whatever. Do you really want to rack the slide with your teeth? Do you honestly think you'll have time to do so?

(okay, wish me luck on this next part:uhoh: )

Cops are not the end-all be-all omnipotent weapons masters they are made out to be. In some cases, they're not particularly well-trained, or even responsible. Cops screw up, just like "normal" folks. Do not confuse the irresponsible conduct of some unknown trooper as a measure of your own weapons skills.

Learn those four rules and keep them in your head. Repeat them to yourself until they fuse into your DNA. Even then, conduct yourself with a little humility. Know that you can screw up, and account for the possibillity by being damn careful, this time and every time. That's what'll keep your floorboards from getting holed. What are you going to do when a round somehow sneaks into your chamber and you haven't learned trigger discipline because you let yourself be lulled by an empty chamber safety net?

Just my opinions, of course.
 
It would be interesting to know what type of weapon the state police were issued. My guess is Glocks. There are times that LEO's draw and reholster their weapons while setting in the patrol car. With seat belt buckles and the other equipment that officers carry it would be easy to get an AD on a light trigger with no safety.
 
Also keep in mind that cops usually have a lot more to tend to than just their guns and cars. There's a radio, probably a cell phone, possibly a prisoner, and a whole lot of other things that they have to manage at any given time.

Tell ya what, try getting in or out of a Crown Vic in a hurry, with 30 pounds of crap on your duty belt some time, and see how tough it is. Then do it again, in the dark while it's raining and with somebody either shooting at you or screaming for help.

I think you'll come to the conclusion that it's a wonder ALL of the cars you looked at didn't have multiple bullet holes in their seats.


J.C.
 
I used to agree with not carrying one in the hole. But, I realized how little time I might have in the event that something were to happen. You might have enough time to rack it for most circumstances. But, what if you fumble going to grab for it. You hand gets caught on your shirt. Seat belt is in the way. Whatever it is, it might be a long enough hiccup so you don't have enough time to rack it. It's not something I want to be worrying about. I realized if you keep your finger off the trigger, and the safety on, you are not going to have a problem.
 
I know of at least one police shotgun where a cigar had been dropped down the barrel and left there for who knows how long.

I also know of an armored car guy who left a gun in a leather holster on his belt for 14 years and never once took it out of the holster. After a while a new armored courier asked to see it, the guy took it out and the gun was rusted solid, he tried to open the cylinder and it actually fell off of the gun. Last time I saw him he had replaced it with a .38 with half the grips torn off...still in the same holster probably.

I also know of an officer's gun that I inspected that was covered in a fine layer of rust. This guy claims to be a "gun guy" and also claims that CZ is a "saturday night special". The rust was on a "stainless" gun.

I know of another officer who swears his .38 special revolver is capable of handling .357 rounds "all day long".

I know of another officer who cannot qualify with her weapon without at least 2 tries, every single time.

I know of another officer who called what I believe was a mini-14 an AK-47.

Another officer who said to the cameras once that gang bangers like revolvers because they're HARDER to use, thus more manly....like he wouldn't trade for a Mak 10 in a second.

Another officer swears that his ballistic vest can stop a knife and bullet, but not a bullet from a .22lr....only 9mm or bigger.

Another officer who actually loaded his rounds backwards in the magazine and then couldn't figure out why the gun wouldn't chamber.

Another officer who had a negligent discharge because he decocks the hammer with his thumb instead of the decocker because "thats the way" he "was trained".

Another armored courier who shot the roof of his truck because he chambered and pulled the trigger on a 12ga. that he "thought" the safety was on.

Another armored courier who shot the ground while talking to a group of people while cradling the shotgun.

Another armored courier who shot himself in the leg by hanging his revolver on a clothes hook in a bathroom stall, then pulled on the barrel of the gun to get off the toilet.

Another armored courier who shot an armored truck in the garage practicing his quick draw.

Another officer who shot himself in the inner thigh cleaning his gun.

Another armored courier who shot through several walls of a retail office by playing with his gun while on the toilet.

Another armored courier who shot the kitchen floor to "prove" to his wife he wasn't leaving a loaded gun in the house.

Those are just a few off the top of my head. Moral...a professional who carries a gun is not necassarily a professional with a gun.
 
I watched Tony Stewart cut across a couple lanes of traffic and hit another car a couple of Sunday's ago. He's a professional driver, a lot better than I am I'm sure, but he did do something stupid and careless.

Should I stop driving because of what he did?
 
johnny, while i tend to disagree with you, i would like to commend you for two things:

  • you actually took the time to think the matter through and came to your own decision.
  • you presented it as your opinion.

it's somewhat refreshing. :)
 
It would be interesting to know what type of weapon the state police were issued. My guess is Glocks.
Click to expand...
Yep, some designs are more prone to operator error than others--a point to remember in your decision process.
 
just out of curiosity, what city is this? You'd think they'd at least want to duct tape over all those holes or SOMETHING before they sold them off to the public--how embarrassing!
 
I always carry with one in the chamber

But I only carry either DAO autos or uncocked revolvers. I owned a Glock for a while. It was a fine weapon, except I didn't feel comfortable pocket carrying it, so I sold it.

+1 on the idea you might not have a second hand free to work the slide. I could have already been injured by an attack before I draw, and only have the one hand in working order. Or the second hand is being used to fend off the attacker, or steer my car, or what have you.

Lou
 
A majority of LEO are not gun-folks. They look at it as a part of their job. Their experience doesn't make a good role model for gun handling.

Jamie C. made a lot of good points.
 
An analogy for you, might give you something to think about.


"I was at a government auction and I noticed a lot of cars had been damaged in wrecks. Because of that I have decided not to drive since if cops wreck cars I most likely will wreck mine as well"

If you don't feel comfy carrying with a loaded chamber then certainly that's no problem. But don't make that decision solely based on the fact that some people have had NDs doing that. I have no doubt we could find plenty of folks that had an ND trying to chamber a round when they needed one because they chose to carry an empty chamber. You can find a few stories to justify just about anything you want. There isn't necessarily a cause=effect relationship here.
 
Ah what the heck, I'll jump on the bandwagon. Don't base your carry methods on problems police officers have had. As has been amply demonstrated, they're not always the best examples of safe and responsible firearms handling.
 
Everyone that I knows carries a round in the chamber. It is more dangerous this way, but the amount of time that it takes to rack a slide back is all the time an adversary needs to blow you away. Plus, under pressure, you do not want to worry about chambering a round. You just want to jerk that pistol from the holster and squeeze the trigger. As long as you are safe and keep your finger off the trigger, you have nothing to worry about.
 
So I guess this eliminates carrying revolvers for you. I'm glad to see you thought this through,but most pistols are designed to be carried with a round chambered. That's what the safety is for.
 
when I got my 1911 (my first handgun) I got to the parking lot of the store and promply loaded it and topped the mag off, 7+1 cocked and locked. before this the experience I had with pistols was 15 rounds through a glock and 60 rounds or so through a M9 (beretta 92/96) which I carried for about a year and a half with a round in the tube decocked. I actually feel safer carrying my 1911 cocked and locked then the beretta as the army says so, the decocker/ safety on the M9 is just to small and weirdly placed for me to bring to bear quickly.

and yes I did on occasion practice my quick draw while I was at work, you get bored working the midnight shift. but I always unloaded it beforehand and played it safe. wouldn't have been good to put a hole through a F16.

my point, know the capabilities and limitations of your weapon, and yourself and then do what is safe and comfortable within those paramiters
 
know of at least one police shotgun where a cigar had been dropped down the barrel and left there for who knows how long.

I also know of an armored car guy who left a gun in a leather holster on his belt for 14 years and never once took it out of the holster. After a while a new armored courier asked to see it, the guy took it out and the gun was rusted solid, he tried to open the cylinder and it actually fell off of the gun. Last time I saw him he had replaced it with a .38 with half the grips torn off...still in the same holster probably.

I also know of an officer's gun that I inspected that was covered in a fine layer of rust. This guy claims to be a "gun guy" and also claims that CZ is a "saturday night special". The rust was on a "stainless" gun.

I know of another officer who swears his .38 special revolver is capable of handling .357 rounds "all day long".

I know of another officer who cannot qualify with her weapon without at least 2 tries, every single time.

I know of another officer who called what I believe was a mini-14 an AK-47.

Another officer who said to the cameras once that gang bangers like revolvers because they're HARDER to use, thus more manly....like he wouldn't trade for a Mak 10 in a second.

Another officer swears that his ballistic vest can stop a knife and bullet, but not a bullet from a .22lr....only 9mm or bigger.

Another officer who actually loaded his rounds backwards in the magazine and then couldn't figure out why the gun wouldn't chamber.

Another officer who had a negligent discharge because he decocks the hammer with his thumb instead of the decocker because "thats the way" he "was trained".

Another armored courier who shot the roof of his truck because he chambered and pulled the trigger on a 12ga. that he "thought" the safety was on.

Another armored courier who shot the ground while talking to a group of people while cradling the shotgun.

Another armored courier who shot himself in the leg by hanging his revolver on a clothes hook in a bathroom stall, then pulled on the barrel of the gun to get off the toilet.

Another armored courier who shot an armored truck in the garage practicing his quick draw.

Another officer who shot himself in the inner thigh cleaning his gun.

Another armored courier who shot through several walls of a retail office by playing with his gun while on the toilet.

Another armored courier who shot the kitchen floor to "prove" to his wife he wasn't leaving a loaded gun in the house.

Those are just a few off the top of my head. Moral...a professional who carries a gun is not necassarily a professional with a gun.
__________________
A Godly man and his rifle deprive sleep from the wicked. A Christian man who prays is the defeater of evil. A praying man who will fight is the conqueror of nations and the hope of the oppressed.
Click to expand...

You seem to know a lot of very careless people...
 
Alot of very good comments. I took everyone of them to mind.
I guess that maybe I was a little quick to jump to the conclusion, but it did put some doubts in my mind. I know that police officers are no different than any other person, but with as much training that they receive, things like this should not happen.
I remember going to a indoor gun range several years ago, and there were many, many holes in the ceiling about 10 feet out. I asked how all the holes got in the ceiling. The guy working there told me that they have alot of local police shooting there. I guess that I should have taken that into consideration.
I have carried revolvers with the cylinder full, and several times carried a auto with one in the chamber, and I never touch the trigger unless I am ready to shoot. I have never had a accidental discharge, even during a combat stint in the infantry. (that is when they still had a decent sidearm - 45acp)
I imagine that my 45 smith is safe to carry with one in the chamber, but I kind of have that fear of it happening.
A really good point that several people brought up is the time that it takes to load a round into the chamber. That is definately something to think about.
I am going to work on this and build my confidence up that I am not going to let this happen to me.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback.
 
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