Carrying in Church

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, I dont know about AR laws on worship. We had gone from a donated office space for the early services onto rented space inside a shopping mall and finally built the Church to design to fit the donated land with a bank financing.

Years ago I used to regularly go to what is called "Mobile Chapel" in various locations, usually Harrisburg at the 76 there long ago. Mobile Chapel were services held in a trailer converted to a small chapel open 24/7 for those who needed it.

I dont know if any still survive today, but would imagine so. It's the closest I see to smaller churches. Another small public worships were in Flying J's and they would call to worship on sundays in some places. It would be interesting because in one room there is a large screen playing a popular football game and in the other room worshipping and singing going on while in the third room a large group of travelers are eating and hydrating.
 
an armed private security guard named Jean Assam
Click to expand...

Jean Assam... was she the off-duty cop or armed guard they hired specifically because of threats or something?
Click to expand...

Jean Assam had previously worked (several years before the CO incident) in Minnesota as a police officer. She was canned over statements made after removing a person from a bus as part of her duties.

She was a member of the New Life church and a VOLUNTEER on their "security team". She was a CO CCW permit holder and was carrying her personal firearm.

She was not a paid or licensed security gaurd. She had never been an LEO in CO.

Many churches can hardly muster the funds to pay their staff and carry out their ministries, let alone hire security guards. And even a large church such as New Life, would rather put that kind of money toward ministry. As is often the case, churches turn to their members to help get things done. I've happily volunteered to clean, paint, and hang vinyl siding at my church over the years, as well as teach Sunday school.

I carry Every Sunday. Even when acting as an usher and serving Communion.

My pastor knows I carry at church and does himself on occasion.

Without running airport style security, you'll never be able to prevent the taking of a life in church. But you can prevent a massacre.
 
Last edited:
Absolutely always. If the same whackjob had walked into our little congregation of 80 this last Sunday, things would have gone down a lot differently. In a small congregation in the middle of the DFW metroplex we have a handful of people armed, and we all know who we are and what we are doing.
 
She was a member of the New Life church and a VOLUNTEER on their "security team". She was a CO CCW permit holder and was carrying her personal firearm.
Click to expand...

In Colorado she was considered to be a private security guard, and had operated as the personal bodyguard to the senior pastor. What she was NOT was some random civilian parishoner who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

She was not a paid or licensed security gaurd.
Click to expand...

She IS a paid licensed Security guard, I've spoken to her directly at the Colorado Springs City Administration building while she was wearing a security uniform.
 
Churches, like hospitals, can be dangerous places to be these days. If you aren't carrying in church, you are potentially leaving your fate in the hands of others ... and often these others do not have the best interests of you or your family in mind.

Legal issues aside, if the church folks tell you that packing is not allowed at any given congregation, my recommendation is to find another church and another congregation that does allow it.
 
I do not carry in church. Paul writes in Romans 13:1-7 that we are to obey the governing authorities over us. The Missouri CCW law states that it is illegal to carry in a place of worship. So I do not. If the punishment for your sins are paid by the blood of Christ, what is there to fear? If you don't think this makes sense, the "good person" test explains a lot more than I can write here.
 
"While I agree with you, please note that I DID say this "stunt" occured pre New Life. I'm fairly certain no church would do anything like this today."


Unfortunately, this was not the first time for this to have happened in the English speaking world.

Christian churches have been the victims of violence for hundreds of years. Same for other reigions.

With the development of radio, television, video recorders, and the internet, there really is no good reason for anyone in a developed country not to know that physical violence does happen inside and about churches.

Each person does however, choose how they plan ahead - to deal with this violence, should it ever happen to visit them.

Physical violence is nothing new. Some people choose to be sheep, some choose to be a sheepdog, and others choose to be the wolf.
 
I live in Missouri and my pastor wants me to be armed. He has gived his permission and has informed our church board that there are a couple of CCW holders in the congregation. There was no disapproval.

cougar1717, in Missouri you are allowed to carry in church with "the permission of the minister or person representing religious organization"

Here is a link to the Missouri CCW law and it's on page 4.
http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/Publications/Brochures/documents/SHP-863.pdf

BTW it's either a CZ P-01 or CZ 75BD.
 
Rockwell1:

Quote:
She was not a paid or licensed security gaurd.

She IS a paid licensed Security guard, I've spoken to her directly at the Colorado Springs City Administration building while she was wearing a security uniform.
__________________
Click to expand...

I can't say that you've never seen Jeanne Assam in a uniform, but I go to New Life and I have never seen her in a uniform. She wears plain clothes as do the other volunteer security guards. She works at a Christian ministry during the week and is not a professional security guard.

You are correct when you say she was not a random civilian who was in the right place at the right time. She was specifically stationed in center of the church as a result of the news of the shooting at the YWAM office in Denver.
 
Last edited:
So what do you consider yourself, Rockwell? The Goat or the Ewe?

As for church security, a few of us local LA cops were hired by a local Synagogue as plainclothes armed security because they were getting a lot of threats. Smart move.

The Rabbi and his church had no problems with having armed protection in the house of God against potential threats because they know the reality of the world.
 
can't say that you've never seen Jeanne Assam in a uniform
Click to expand...

When I saw her she was wearing a Securitas uniform

But I make no claim to know her personally

what do you consider yourself, Rockwell? The Goat or the Ewe?
Click to expand...

I consider myself to be a citizen who chooses to carry a handgun for the protection of myself and my family. As another poster commented my CHP did not come with a bat cape & a utility belt.
 
So you are a sheepdog... who selectively guards a subset of sheep.
Click to expand...

Read the article Sheep, Sheepdogs & Wolves the author makes it clear he's refering to military personel.

Falling into the "Sheepdog" mythology is (IMO) a mistake for anyone who holds a CHP
 
Hm. I dont do sheep. I dont chase sheep. I dont eat sheep either. So.. sheep, no; sheepdog; nope. Wolf... maybe but no.

That makes me a Mountain Cat. I think. Whatever that adds up to LOL.
 
Jean Assam... was she the off-duty cop or armed guard they hired specifically because of threats or something?
Click to expand...
NEITHER.

She was not an off-duty cop although she had previous law-enforcement experience. She was part of a volunteer (unpaid) group of church members who provided security for the church. Although they were alerted by the previous incident at another location belonging to the church, the group was already in place, it was not created specifically as a result of the prior shooting incident.
She IS a paid licensed Security guard, I've spoken to her directly at the Colorado Springs City Administration building while she was wearing a security uniform.
Click to expand...
She may be a security guard now, but as I recall she was not employed in security or LE work at the time of the incident.
You are correct when you say she was not a random civilian who was in the right place at the right time. She was specifically stationed in center of the church as a result of the news of the shooting at the YWAM office in Denver.
Click to expand...
While the volunteer security group was taking special precautions as a result of the prior shooting, they were not formed as a result of the shooting. The group was in place before the earlier shooting and was composed of volunteer church members. It was formed as a result of much earlier (unrelated) threats against the pastor of the church.

Assam was head of the team due to her previous LE experience.

On the one hand, it's accurate to say that she wasn't simply a church member with a gun & a carry permit since she had an official position as head of the church security team. On the other hand it's not accurate to imply that she was a professional security guard at the time. She was an unpaid volunteer, a member of the church just like the other volunteers on the team.
 
Read the article Sheep, Sheepdogs & Wolves the author makes it clear he's refering to military personel.

Falling into the "Sheepdog" mythology is (IMO) a mistake for anyone who holds a CHP
Click to expand...

Got it. I don't adhere to the strict definitions of the book as we expanded it here to include cops and people who take care of themselves and family as sheepdog. The sheep are the ones who succumb to crime because they can't or won't fight or expect the government to take care of them, which is just nuts.
 
sheepdogs

As I understand, the good Col. works primarily military and that is a primary audience for him. But that is not his only audience, and he has made this quite clear in his appearances and so on.

If you are willing to fight the goblin, then that makes you a sheepdog. The analogy is a simple one, because this is a simple situation. Either we fight, or we do not.

There are thugs who only respond to, and respect, physical force.

Some people choose to ignore this fact of life; they plan to be victims.

The Christian Bible, and other religious works, allow for the defense of life.

It really is a simple thing.
 
Last edited:
sheepdogs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I understand, the good Col. works primarily military and that is a primary audience for him. But that is not his only audience, and he has made this quite clear in his appearances and so on.

If you are willing to fight the goblin, than that makes you a sheepdog. The analogy is a simple one, because this is a simple situation. Either we fight, or we do not.

There are thugs who only respond to, and respect, physical force.

Some people choose to ignore this fact of life; they plan to be victims.

The Christian Bible, and other religious works, allow for the defense of life.

It really is a simple thing.
Click to expand...

That is pretty much our understanding of it too.

SHEEP = victims/passive citizens

SHEEPDOG = self-reliant citizens who refuse to be victims
 
I think that the true test is......In your absence, your wife or child was being molested. What would you want a passerby to do? In my opinion, the answer is very clear. I'd pray that the world's best sheepdog that was part wolf would suddenly make his presence and take whatever action, possibly plus a little more than necessary, to subdue the attacker, hopefully with a .45 caliber hollowpoint extremely well placed. I would also pray that he would make it very clear to the attacker what was about to happen just prior to squeezing the trigger.
 
you are willing to fight the goblin, then that makes you a sheepdog. The analogy is a simple one, because this is a simple situation. Either we fight, or we do not.
Click to expand...

I see entirely too many people (mainly posting here) that take the sheep dog analogy too far. I'm talking about the types that buy "CCW Badges" or the little sheep dog pins that I've seen advertised here. The type that somehow think their CCW imputes JR. police authority to them. Therefore, I get neverous when I see the word used, as do the majority of posters here (feel free to search the term)

I think that the true test is......In your absence, your wife or child was being molested. What would you want a passerby to do
Click to expand...

I would pray that they would duck and give my wife a clear field of fire because niether one of us is willing to trust our safety to the kindness of passersby.
 
I honestly can't recall a 7+ page thread where not a single THR staff member stopped by to chime in with at least one little post.:confused:
This might be the only one.:scrutiny:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Carry Question
2
Replies
35
Views
1K
Treefrog23
T
K
  • Locked
Carry at church
2 3
Replies
59
Views
2K
Stress_Test
S
S
  • Locked
Comfort...or....comfort?
Replies
23
Views
1K
helz_mcfugly
H
F
  • Locked
Carry in church?
2 3 4
Replies
76
Views
2K
Rebeldon
R
P
  • Locked
Carry Position/holster
Replies
17
Views
1K
Guitargod1985
G
Back
Top