Dillon 550 - full length resizing issue

[Steve in Allentown]

I've been reloading for more than 30 years on a Dillon 550. I've been using Redding Type S resizing dies for .308 and 6.8 gas guns with great success.

Today I began the process of setting up another Redding Type S sizing die for reloading for a new AR chambered in .223. Followed my tried and true process for the set up. Bumped the shoulder back until the empty case would chamber, determined which neck bushing gave the appropriate amount of neck tension, trimmed the case length appropriately, and deburred the case mouth. Nothing special, nothing out of the ordinary.

The problem is that while the shoulder bump allowed the case to chamber, the bottom of the case was not being resized so the case would not freely chamber. I had to push it the rest of the way in. I'm using a small base Redding die. I even tried lowering the die until it was solidly in contact with the shell plate in the hope of it resizing the case head area. No luck.

Obviously, I need a die that will take care of the case head area.

If there's anyone here using a 550 to reload .223 in an AR, I'd appreciate your help in identifying the full length resizing die I should get.

 

[Walkalong]

Assuming it is a Full Length bushing style (Type S) sizer (you said small base), something is wrong. Bad brass or bad sizer (which Redding would make good). Where did the brass come from?

Redding FL bushing style sizer, Forster & Whidden seaters.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Yes, it's a full length sizing die with a neck sizing bushing at the top to set the neck diameter.

Maybe I'll contact Redding on Monday to see what they have to say.

 

[Soonerpesek]

If there's anyone here using a 550 to reload .223 in an AR, I'd appreciate your help in identifying the full length resizing die I should get.

I have been using the steel .223 dies from Dillon ( full length size die )...loaded and fired about 3,000 rounds without fail in 2 AR15's.
After the cases are fully prepped ( sizing done with the Dillon die in a Lyman turret ), I prime, fill, seat, and just kiss the taper crimp die, all on the Dillon press....

Just saying I have had no trouble using this die set...

 

[Soonerpesek]

Maybe I'll contact Redding on Monday to see what they have to say.

This is a good idea to do first----no matter what way you may end up going...

 

[Slamfire]

I've been reloading for more than 30 years on a Dillon 550. I've been using Redding Type S resizing dies for .308 and 6.8 gas guns with great success.

Today I began the process of setting up another Redding Type S sizing die for reloading for a new AR chambered in .223. Followed my tried and true process for the set up. Bumped the shoulder back until the empty case would chamber, determined which neck bushing gave the appropriate amount of neck tension, trimmed the case length appropriately, and deburred the case mouth. Nothing special, nothing out of the ordinary.

The problem is that while the shoulder bump allowed the case to chamber, the bottom of the case was not being resized so the case would not freely chamber. I had to push it the rest of the way in. I'm using a small base Redding die. I even tried lowering the die until it was solidly in contact with the shell plate in the hope of it resizing the case head area. No luck.

Obviously, I need a die that will take care of the case head area.

If there's anyone here using a 550 to reload .223 in an AR, I'd appreciate your help in identifying the full length resizing die I should get.

Steve: It is possible the barrel that your brass was fired in, was deliberately reamed with a reamer with an over sized case head section. I have been told by a gunsmith I respect, that Kreiger is/was doing this on their Garand barrels, so no customer would call and complain that their range pick ups would not chamber. If the chamber is over sized, there is very little you can do with a press and a sizing die that will restore the case head to factory dimensions.

That is when you have to spend $$$ on Roll Sizers:

This is one example:

http://www.casepro100.com/

 

[nick22]

I had some trouble getting mixed .308 brass to chamber easily in my AR10. I ended up doing the full length resize on my single stage hornady then taking them to the dillon for loading, it fixed my issue.

 

[243winxb]

Range brass? Does factory ammo/fired brass, from your rifle, size and chamber ok?

Shell plate /deck flex , not allowing full contact at top of stroke?

Or the shell plate was like my old one, different deck height at each station, different shoulder bumps.

 

[Jim Watson]

While waiting for office hours, screw said die into your single stage and see if more leverage and a conventional shell holder make a difference.

 

[AJC1]

The easiest path first is to check a few different brands or maybe a different rifle. This will tell you where your having your issue. If it's your chamber your kinda stuck, but if it's the brass that's just inconvenient. You can also add some dwell time inside the sizing die to see if that helps. Five to ten seconds sitting in the die may help.

 

[JJFitch]

After buying a new press (Hornady L-n-L) to dedicate to .223 I experienced a similar issue with standard sizing die and chambering. I purchased a RCBS S-Base sizing die. After carefully reading the instructions, the S- base die solved my problem. But it involved additional "turns in" to really put pressure on the shell platen! The additional pressure required turning in the size die in small increments until the sized case would drop into the .223 case gage and chamber and drop free!,

OK, what did I learn? The die had to "kiss" the platen and an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn to size the last .001-.005 so the case would "plunk"!

As a last resort I read the directions for setting up the Hornady standard sizing die. Blasphemy, who reads instructions? Yup, turn the size die in additional incrementally until the entire case is sized!

This last statement contradicted the procedure I'd been using when setting up carbide pistol dies! Excessive pressure damages carbide dies!

I guess old dogs can learn new tricks after all! Especially when actually reading instructions, at least in my case!

Smiles,

P.S. I too have been using Dillons (5 dedicated to pistol only!) for over 35 years. I prefer the Hornady progressives for rifle because of the extra stations for "powder cop" and occasional crimp die.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Thanks to all who have replied. Before I head down to the reloading room I thought I'd address a few of your suggestions and questions.

That is when you have to spend $$$ on Roll Sizers:

I've often looked at those machines but Ouch! Money doesn't grow on tress for us old, retired guys.

I ended up doing the full length resize on my single stage hornady then taking them to the dillon for loading, it fixed my issue.

I really don't want to have to do this but my experience today may show this to be the least costly, most practical course of action going forward.

Range brass?

Nope. All factory ammo fired from my rifle. Factory ammo drops in and out of the chamber freely. Of course, most factory ammo has very generous headspace and short case length.

Shell plate /deck flex , not allowing full contact at top of stroke?

I'm getting full contact at the top of the stroke so no problem there.

If it's your chamber your kinda stuck, but if it's the brass that's just inconvenient.

The real issue is that there's no contact between the die and the lower portion of the case even with the case shoved as high in the die as it will go.

 

[jmorris]

Assuming it is a Full Length bushing style (Type S) sizer (you said small base), something is wrong. Bad brass or bad sizer (which Redding would make good). Where did the brass come from?

This is along my thinking.

I've been reloading for more than 30 years on a Dillon 550. I've been using Redding Type S resizing dies for .308 and 6.8 gas guns with great success.

Today I began the process of setting up another Redding Type S sizing die for reloading for a new AR chambered in .223.

That makes me suspect of the new barrel.

If you have other, 223’s that are fine with the equipment/loads you are making, I might fix the rifle vs your side of things.

 

[jmorris]

I had some trouble getting mixed .308 brass to chamber easily in my AR10. I ended up doing the full length resize on my single stage hornady then taking them to the dillon for loading, it fixed my issue.

I have had shell holder, plate/die interface in the past where I have turned a little off the face of a die for clearance. That said, if the round has the shoulder in the right spot for the rifle but the base is the problem, shoving the die lower might fix the base but then you are also pushing the shoulder back further than you want.

 

[AJC1]

Well I would loan you my rcbs sb die for testing purposes but your a few states away. Sounds like a call to Redding in the morning is your next step.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

A quick update on today's efforts to at least narrow down the diagnosis.

I pulled out another AR (everyone has more than one, right?) and went through the process of determining the correct amount of shoulder bump for its chamber. For me this involves running a piece of brass through the Redding Type S full length sizing die multiple times while incrementally screwing the die down each time until the case will easily seat in the chamber and freely fall out when I upend the barrel. To be clear, I strip the extractor and ejector from the bolt and after placing the case in the chamber by hand I push the bolt/bolt carrier group forward in an attempt to lock the bolt in place. I don't use an undue amount of strength while pushing the bolt forward. I want it to lock up with no resistance and I want it to unlock just as easily. The competing factor is that I don't want the shoulder to be pushed back excessively. Not a big deal. I've been doing this long enough that I have a good feel for it.

I had no issues with the other AR (BCM). After resizing a handful of cases to the specs I had determined and manually chambering each one in this rifle, there were no failures-to-chamber.

On the other hand, none of them would fully chamber in the original rifle (ARP barrel) that I described in the original post above. I sacrificed a piece of brass by bumping the shoulder way back, reducing the neck diameter to less than bullet diameter, and shortening the case OAL substantially through trimming of the case neck. No joy. Additional measuring shows the case head is the culprit here and the die doesn't touch that area of the case. Obviously, the chamber on this rifle is tighter than the one on the BCM.

My current plan is to brave the icy winter weather up here in PA tomorrow, shoot a handful of factory rounds through the ARP rifle, bring those cases back into the warmth of my reloading room, and run them through the resizing process to see if I can get them to fit the barrel. My guess is that they'll be fine which means I'll have to keep the brass for the two rifles separate from one another. Not the end of the world but it would have been nice to set up the dies one way for both rifles.

More to follow tomorrow.

 

[lordpaxman]

Tagging in as interested.

My guess is that they'll be fine which means I'll have to keep the brass for the two rifles separate from one another. Not the end of the world but it would have been nice to set up the dies one way for both rifles.

And when the third rifle shows up?
I didn’t read where you have or used a case gauge? I know the chamber’s the ultimate resting place for a round, but I’ve found a case gauge sorts out some of these problems, perhaps a bit easier. Good luck, and stay warm (is -1 currently a bit north of you).

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Case gauges? Case gauges? I don't need no stinkin' case gauges!

I can see where a case gauge would have been easier to deal with than playing hide and seek in the rifle chamber but I just had to do it the hard way.

A quick mea culpa. I wrote that the cases were all fired from one rifle (ARP) but I was wrong. Many were but they were mixed in with more that were fired from the other rifle (BCM). Sorry about providing inaccurate info.

 

[Nature Boy]

I believe you have proven the fact that the die is out of spec.

 

[Catpop]

“I pulled out another AR (everyone has more than one, right?”
Wrong, I only have one.
Maybe should say everyone has at least one?
But I also have a mini 14.
Sorry attempt at my humor
I reload on 550 with regular base dies. RCBS, I think. Both my DPMS and mini 14 run flawlessly.
I hope you get problem ironed out.
I did have an issue a while back with a custom barreled 270 that wouldn’t use range brass, only factory new and ones fired in its only chamber- after resizing in 2 different FL sizing dies! Just info. I can offer more info there if interested.
Good luck.

 

[cfullgraf]

Case gauges? Case gauges? I don't need no stinkin' case gauges!

I can see where a case gauge would have been easier to deal with than playing hide and seek in the rifle chamber but I just had to do it the hard way.

A quick mea culpa. I wrote that the cases were all fired from one rifle (ARP) but I was wrong. Many were but they were mixed in with more that were fired from the other rifle (BCM). Sorry about providing inaccurate info.

Unless you get something like the the Sheridan case gauge, you will not learn anything about the body of the case. The Sheridan gauges are cut to SAAMI minimums.

A Wilson and Dillon case gauges only measure overall case length and shoulder position. They are cut generously in the body dimension.

Other case gauges, read the fine print on the gauge to see how they are made.

On sizing dies, I have a standard 223 Rem full length sizing die that is a bit out of spec. Cases fired in a chamber that is cut a bit generously will not chamber in a rifle with a tight chamber when sized in that die.

But, cases fired in the tight chamber rifle will chamber in the same rifle after resizing in the out of spec die.

Small base sizing fixed my interchangeable of ammo issue.

I'd have Redding check your die.

 

[jmorris]

I had no issues with the other AR (BCM). After resizing a handful of cases to the specs I had determined and manually chambering each one in this rifle, there were no failures-to-chamber.

On the other hand, none of them would fully chamber in the original rifle (ARP barrel) that I described in the original post above. I sacrificed a piece of brass by bumping the shoulder way back, reducing the neck diameter to less than bullet diameter, and shortening the case OAL substantially through trimming of the case neck. No joy. Additional measuring shows the case head is the culprit here and the die doesn't touch that area of the case. Obviously, the chamber on this rifle is tighter than the one on the BCM.

That was my suspicion in #13. Does factory ammunition function properly in the new rifle?

If not or either way, a chamber reamer would fix your problem.

 

[ManFromMontana]

This same problem is rearing it's ugly head in this thread as well (for .308):
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...trating-308-not-fitting-in-case-gauge.899492/

 

[243winxb]

Rounds will not chamber or fit case gauge-

Range Brass- The FL die does not size below this line. If brass is first fired in a gun with a LARGE chamber, with a MAXIMUM load, the brass may not fit a different rifles chamber that is SMALLER. Case gauges are not made all the same. Read the instructions for you gage. (gage is a waste of $$)

RCBS FL die used to size factory fired 223 brass.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

It was a tad chilly on the range today.

I put a whopping 6 factory rounds down range through the ARP barreled rifle and recovered all the cases. Deprimed the 6 cases and proceeded to full length resize them, trim OAL, and deburr the case mouths.

Results

• The cases from the ARP rifle sized correctly
• With minimum shoulder bump all cases chambered easily and fell out under their own weight when the bolt was retracted

I now have minimum head-to-datum measurements for both the ARP barreled rifle and the BCM rifle. The measurement is different for each rifle so I will use cases fired through the ARP barrel for handload development for only that rifle. Likewise, I will only use cases fired in the the BCM rifle for its handloads.

Not a perfect solution but the cost will be limited to my time setting up the full length resizing die to match whichever rifle I'm handloading for at the time.

I was pretty flustered when this all started. Many thanks to all who helped me through this.