CC at Home- Paperwork?

[Jeff White]

How many died because they didn't have a gun since June 15th? I need the names, dates, case numbers and narratives so that we can judge if they really would have died if they had a gun. If you can't supply this information then your statement is just more empty rhetoric not based in fact at all but based on emotion...the same thing the antis are always accused of.

Time to put up or shut up......names, dates, case numbers and narrative reports or your statement isn't worth the electrons it took to light up the monitor.

Jeff

 

[Sam]

Sorry Mr. White,
It doesn't work that way.
When all of the people of Illinois have the same rights that you do, then you can get up on the high horse and make demands.

Keep backing into the corner.

Sam

 

[SomeKid]

Jeff, you are ignoring one of the fundamental points I am making to you: LE attitude is so pervasively abusive even with Heller we don't trust cops. A lot of things happened in New Orleans that was illegal under the current law, yet that didn't stop cops.

The problem you refuse to see is that to trust LE, is a dangerous move for most people due to a lack of trust. Look over this thread, where people say don't OC unless in a friendly place. Tell me, who is going to come for a man who open carries in an un-friendly to OC location? Stalin? The boogie-man? Or maybe government men in blue.

This thread starts out with a man asking if he needs to carry his identification papers on him on his own property to prevent police abuse. Doesn't the fact that the question is even asked tell you anything? The vast majority of posters here did not even blink, yet you did. Are we all wrong just so you can be right?

 

[Dustinthewind]

And what was it, two days ago that there was a thread about a guy getting arrested for carrying his gun in his yard? I think that there is something fundamentally wrong with the system when honest citizens are paranoid about exercising their rights on their own property.
The government should serve the people. The people should not be subservient to the government.

 

[Jeff White]

It doesn't work that way.

Yes, I am afraid it does work that way. You either have facts to back up what you are saying or at best you are so uneducated about the situation that you are repeating rhetoric you have heard before or at worst you are lying to make your point. No facts no argument.

Keep backing into the corner.

You're the one in the corner and only facts that back up what you say will get you out my friend. Rhetoric and lies mean nothing.

This thread starts out with a man asking if he needs to carry his identification papers on him on his own property to prevent police abuse. Doesn't the fact that the question is even asked tell you anything?

Yes it tells me that a certain segment of the gun culture is so beaten down, so brainwashed by the propaganda put out by our own side, so used to losing that they subconsciously think that owning a firearm is a criminal act.

Jeff

 

[Sam]

Yes it tells me that a certain segment of the gun culture is so beaten down, so brainwashed by the propaganda put out by our own side, so used to losing that they subconsciously think that owning a firearm is a criminal act

No it tells us that we are tired of the "multitude of abuses and usurpations" of the government. So tired that we have no confidence or trust in it, and that as an agent of that arm of government most often at fault, we place little or no credibility and have no faith in your statements.

Earn our trust, the citizenry were not he ones who broke the laws, violated the Constitution or were abusive of their fellow citizens and violated the trust. LEO's were. Admittedly not all of them, but damn sure enough to make a lasting impression.

Good bye!

Sam Damewood

 

[Craig_AR]

Mis-Intpretation of Thoughts

Jeff,
From your last post here:

Quote:

This thread starts out with a man asking if he needs to carry his identification papers on him on his own property to prevent police abuse. Doesn't the fact that the question is even asked tell you anything?

Yes it tells me that a certain segment of the gun culture is so beaten down, so brainwashed by the propaganda put out by our own side, so used to losing that they subconsciously think that owning a firearm is a criminal act.

As the guy who started this thread, I'd like to suggest that I am not reacting to "propaganda.' I am reacting to reports of

1. New Orleans police confiscating a legally held CC gun because the owner did not have a receipt for purchase with him during a traffic stop, and refusing to rerun it until he produced a receipt. (Note this is not the Katrina grab; it is a recent event.)

2. Fairfax County police arresting a NC driver and charging him with two non-existent crimes because he had a CC gun with him and had brought it into VA across the state line from NC.

3. A report in a thread on THR of a man being arrested for open carry on his own property.

I am not saying LEO are bad, or that they are ignorant. I am saying that there are some individual LEO who seem to work at odds to the law.

My query to the crowd here was to find out if any members feel it a good idea to keep their ID and CWP/CCL/CHP with them when carrying at home, just in case they run into one of those out-lier non-representative cops.


I will repeat and emphasize my earlier assertion - I respect and trust LEOs in general. ALL of my numerous contacts with the FCPD have been very positive (including the two FCPD cops I used to attend church with.) I am also aware that a few of them may not belong in their positions of trust. Living my life to be prepared if I run into the 5% of misfits in uniform is a kind of insurance.
You know... we buy insurance to cover teh 15% or such odds an accident will happen. Buying that insurance does not mean we believe we are guaranteed of of getting in an accident.

craig

 

[MT GUNNY]

As a Montana resident I can CC on property W/O permit, Once I step off the property I would OC if I didn't have my permit. However if I lived outside city limits I could continue to CC .


To add to the other debate, My biggest fear is not a rouge Cop but a uninformed one!

 

[Kevin3824]

In some states gun ownership is illegal. I am not referring to assault weapons or full autos either.

Did you know that if you live in Massachusetts you cannot acquire ownership of any firearm manufactured by Colt. It sounds crazy however my dad tried to transfer an M1911 from himself to my cousin who lives in Massachusetts and was told by BAFT that it was not possible however he could loan it to my cousin indefinitely and my cousin could in fact register it without ever actually owning it.

In that case him having it in sight may end up getting it confiscated and only released to its registered owner like happened in the Dickson City, Pennsylvania OC dinner a few months back.

To me that does not seem like a fair trade off for answering the door or speaking to an officer who is on my property without an invite. Personally I think a property owner should be able to TELL anyone on their porch to leave the property or charge them with Criminal Trespass including LEO's without a warrant.

This whole knock and talk idea is a bit scairy to me as it could easily be twisted to apply to an automobile stop as well. they pull you over and while you are in your car it is an extension of your home. As soon as they have you step out of the car you are no longer in your home but on public property. Therefore, you have given up some of your rights if you comply and if you do not then they call that resisting arrest and forcibly remove you which in my opinion is assault as soon as they lay a hand on you.

Another question that could come up is if a person lives in a rental apartment they technically do not own the porch they rent so that could be seen as carry in public.

I realize this is not a posting backed by specific names and such however if you are a LEO then you know what I am saying does in fact happen on a regular basis out there.

 

[dalepres]

How many died because they didn't have a gun since June 15th? I need the names, dates, case numbers and narratives so that we can judge if they really would have died if they had a gun.

I give up; you're right. Since I can't (or won't) do research to support the idea, then no one has ever been killed that might have been saved if there were less restrictions on carrying weapons. There's no reason to even be discussing the refusal of the District of Columbia to allow its citizens to arm themselves.

I wonder if that should be a new "high road" rule. You could add the "case number" field to the posting page and make it a required field.

 

[cpaspr]

Since you asked

I don't generally have a dog in this fight either way, but Jeff did ask.
______________________

Jeff White, post 44:
There were laws passed at the federal and state level after Katrina to insure that those kinds of abuses never happen again. When and where has it happened since?

Rumor has it that they did it again after the tornado hit Greensburg, Kansas, May 4, 2007, going so far as to break in to locked gun safes in undamaged homes. Here: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=121607

 

[Dustinthewind]

Rumor has it that they did it again after the tornado hit Greensburg, Kansas, May 4, 2007, going so far as to break in to locked gun safes in undamaged homes.

Yes there were gun confiscations after the tornado. To what lengths they went to acquire the guns, I don't know. Most if not all have been returned from what I have heard.