CC "badge"... Could you get in trouble with it
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Robert Hairless
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takhtakaal:
Yup, that was Jim Cirillo's point. It's possible that he hadn't considered how irritating it might be to some cops when they discovered to their extreme dismay that he was not a genuine policeman, but it's also possible that he trusted that the arriving officer would recognize that he had not claimed to be anything he wasn't. At least he would be alive.
What struck me was Cirillo's implication that a citzen who defended himself against a deadly attack then faced the possibility of a more successful deadly attack by arriving officers who are badly trained and skittish. That's the only possible reason for Cirillo's suggestion.
Because Cirillo had been a well respected, highly experienced police officer himself, he presumably knew the standard advice about what to do in this situation and his experience led him to have no confidence in them. By no stretch of the imagination could Jim Cirillo be thought anti-cop or out of touch with reality. So this advice did not come from a pseudonymous Internet guru but from a famous law enforcement officer with legendary accomplishments as well as a real name and a good one.
I'm still thinking about it. I suppose anyone who followed Jim Cirillo's advice might then have to deal with a responding officer whose feelings are hurt by some imagined betrayal of trust, but I can't see that a citizen's terms of employment require that he make the cops feel good. I suppose that a decent citizen, seeing hurt he caused to the officer's feelings, could give him a big hug and a wet sloppy kiss to reassure him that the love is still there. But I can't see why an officer would feel betrayed and need to reevaluate his responses to a man holding a badge in such a situation and I certainly hope that he wouldn't become cynical and shoot the next one he sees. That would be awkward.
Yup, that was Jim Cirillo's point. It's possible that he hadn't considered how irritating it might be to some cops when they discovered to their extreme dismay that he was not a genuine policeman, but it's also possible that he trusted that the arriving officer would recognize that he had not claimed to be anything he wasn't. At least he would be alive.
What struck me was Cirillo's implication that a citzen who defended himself against a deadly attack then faced the possibility of a more successful deadly attack by arriving officers who are badly trained and skittish. That's the only possible reason for Cirillo's suggestion.
Because Cirillo had been a well respected, highly experienced police officer himself, he presumably knew the standard advice about what to do in this situation and his experience led him to have no confidence in them. By no stretch of the imagination could Jim Cirillo be thought anti-cop or out of touch with reality. So this advice did not come from a pseudonymous Internet guru but from a famous law enforcement officer with legendary accomplishments as well as a real name and a good one.
I'm still thinking about it. I suppose anyone who followed Jim Cirillo's advice might then have to deal with a responding officer whose feelings are hurt by some imagined betrayal of trust, but I can't see that a citizen's terms of employment require that he make the cops feel good. I suppose that a decent citizen, seeing hurt he caused to the officer's feelings, could give him a big hug and a wet sloppy kiss to reassure him that the love is still there. But I can't see why an officer would feel betrayed and need to reevaluate his responses to a man holding a badge in such a situation and I certainly hope that he wouldn't become cynical and shoot the next one he sees. That would be awkward.
illEagle
Member
WOW W.E.G. wheredja git that cool wallet? 
Tribal
Member
Why not compromise? Many wallets come with an ID wallet. Put your laminated CHP and your Driver's License in there. If you never need it, great. If you somehow do, it's enough to demand a second look.
DC3-CVN-72
Member
I think that the C.C.W. badge is a bad idea for all the reasons listed so far, but also if I am fishing around for a badge I don't have both of my hands controling my wepon. with all the excitement already, I don't need another task that may cause me to neglegently discharge my wepon. When the good guys show up they have no idea who is the bad guy is. I would do what ever the police officer said to do. I expect to be treated like a bad guy before he/she figures out what's realy going on. They will see my C.C.W permit when it's time.
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Black Knight
Member
One other reason not to buy the badge that hasn't been mentioned and I believe most cops would tend to agree. Badges are bullet magnets. BG's use them to determine their first targets. To them badge = cop. Cop is someone trained to stop them. Their idea is to either go somewhere else or take out the cop first. That's why my badge stays in the wallet until needed.
gc70
Member
I have a totally different reason for believing a CCW "badge" is a BAD idea.
There are several members of law enforcement in my family. Since my brother-in-law is somewhat a police wannabe, my wife bought him a CCW "badge" as a joke. Of course, the doofus loved it and carries it everwhere, convincing me that anyone with reasonable intelligence should shun them like the plague.
There are several members of law enforcement in my family. Since my brother-in-law is somewhat a police wannabe, my wife bought him a CCW "badge" as a joke. Of course, the doofus loved it and carries it everwhere, convincing me that anyone with reasonable intelligence should shun them like the plague.
Mall Ninja
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stevelyn
Member
I think you have to remember that the enviroment that Cirillo came from is one where only the stasi have guns and are identified by a badge.
Perhaps in places like NY it may act as a talisman against getting shot by responding agencies.
Outside of places like NY and the People's Republic of the Northeast, where it's common for average folks to carry and have guns, you'll likely have an eyebrow or two raised at you if you show a badge.
Perhaps in places like NY it may act as a talisman against getting shot by responding agencies.
Outside of places like NY and the People's Republic of the Northeast, where it's common for average folks to carry and have guns, you'll likely have an eyebrow or two raised at you if you show a badge.
Uglyoldpoorman
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If you are using your CCW license correctly you don't need no stinkin badge.
Do what the law says you can do and forget the cowboy ****.
Do what the law says you can do and forget the cowboy ****.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Robert Hairless, the tackyness of CCW badges aside, not pissing off the cop minutes after the situation is secure and safe is about the last thing on the list of concerns. #1 is : don't get shot, especially by the cops. If a goofy CCW badge helps someone not get shot, the feelings of the cop after everything is over really don't mean squat.
IANAL, nor LEO, but I see it this way: Unless you are issued a "CCW badge" with your "CCW I.D." card, then you shouldn't have one. I think it would seriously hurt your credibility if you seem like a characature "gun-nut". It's hard to look like a logical, normal person if you're waving around a fake badge like a little kid playing cops and robbers... Just my $.02...
Treo
member
Do they make "Mall Ninja" badges?
Seriously I was in an ice cream shop here in the Springs and this Yo -Yo walked in W/ a "Licensed Security Officer" badge on his belt, I laughed so hard I couldn't orde. He just stood there FUMING.
badges (fake) are baaaaaad Ju-Ju
Seriously I was in an ice cream shop here in the Springs and this Yo -Yo walked in W/ a "Licensed Security Officer" badge on his belt, I laughed so hard I couldn't orde. He just stood there FUMING.
badges (fake) are baaaaaad Ju-Ju
Geronimo45
Member
Think you can get a custom job done... I haven't been able to find any yet.
HuntAndFish
Member
This always gets posted in threads on this subject, so I guess it's my turn.
CNYCacher
Member
CCW badges make me cringe.
If there was ever a way to make people who CCW appear to the general public as scary whackos, that is exactly it!
If there was ever a way to make people who CCW appear to the general public as scary whackos, that is exactly it!
CNYCacher
Member
Surely you meant to say NYC where you typed NY?
My county of roughly 80,000 people issues about 200 LIFETIME UNRESTRICTED CCW licenses each year, and is typical for NYS outside of NYC.
Comments about NY from people who don't live here get old quick.
You can get badges made custom. I have a couple of Sherrif's badges left over from a cookoff team I was on. They were great at the parties.
I won't wear a badge or have one for a couple reasons:
1) Instead of waving a badge, I would much rather be making sure I am behaving in a non-threatening manner, putting my hands up, or putting away the gun.
2) I do think that if you are ever in a shoot that looks questionable, a badge will paint you as a police wannabe. Could hurt you.
I won't wear a badge or have one for a couple reasons:
1) Instead of waving a badge, I would much rather be making sure I am behaving in a non-threatening manner, putting my hands up, or putting away the gun.
2) I do think that if you are ever in a shoot that looks questionable, a badge will paint you as a police wannabe. Could hurt you.
takhtakaal
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taurusowner said:
I'm not sure which lines you were reading between, because the ones I was reading pretty much said that Bald Bobby got that idea clearly. Me, in fact, too.
Mall Ninja
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What truly astounds me is how well you folks populate the U.S. Senate.
TexasSkyhawk
Internet SEAL
Well, there's Utopia and there's Reality. Two totally different planets, but in the same universe and often much closer to each other in orbit than realized.
As a federal officer, whenever I arrived at a crime scene, I was there to do a job--not make friends. Any distractions, threats, implied threats, instigators, etc, were culled PDQ. Even all the moreso when firearms/shots fired were involved.
If you, as a citizen, have the attitude of "To hell with you, copper, I'm a citizen and you work for me and I don't give a damn WHAT you think," there are a couple of thoughts that might go with this.
One is, yeah, you're probably right. But you might also win the battle, but lose the war. After all, you called us--we didn't call you. I love these "I don't dial 9-1-1" bumper stickers and t-shirts and other chest-pounding crap I see. Who you gonna call right after you just discharged your weapon in defense of yourself or another? Ghostbusters?
Yep, you might call your lawyer, but ultimately you're gonna call the cops. Why piss them off with a tin toy badge even though it might be your by-God right to do so? Stupid move.
Second, go ahead--piss off the LE community. See how far it gets you and the "gun rights" movement. It's by acting and conducting yourself responsibly, legally and in harmony with the average flatfoot that will keep the average flatfoot in favor of citizens having permits to carry a weapon.
Start acting like mall ninjas and flashing badges and watch how fast the support from the flatfoots go away.
Right, wrong or indifferent, that's how it is. Your choice. Choose wisely as you are an ambassador to the gun rights bunch.
No one said he (the cop) would shoot the next one he sees. But try rolling on a call where the dispatchers advise "shots fired, proceed with caution," and then have some guy waving a badge. Your training says "Thank God, fellow cop--I can trust this guy." It completely changes your demanor and how you approach the situation.
Then you find out he isn't a cop.
I doubt you'd be real happy.
A badge, even moreso when in combination with a gun, represents training, experience and authority and implies that a non-badge toting individual can trust in the badge-toter. Why do you think cops despise fake badges so much?
And finally, I had a CCW permit holder save my bacon one night many years ago by using his firearm. I didn't have much difficulty in determining that he was "a good guy."
I know, realize and respect where Cirillo's point of view is coming from, but I stand by my contention that he missed the mark on this one.
Jeff
Low-Sci
Member
This one seems to come up a lot. I'd advise against it. When cops show up I'm not moving one millimeter more than they tell me to, and they're not going to tell me to reach inside any of my pockets if they show up and I've already had to shoot, or even may have to shoot in the near future.
They're going to tell me to put my gun down and hold perfectly still, and I'm not going to invite trouble by doing anything they didn't tell me to do. They're not seriously going to ask me to get my own ID out and show it to them, they're going to cuff me and search me, and in the course of their search get my ID. Cops can't be everywhere, but once they're there, they will sort it out.
And if you're showing a badge to someone to get them to refrain from attacking you, I wouldn't bet much on that gamble.
But lets say you still want to carry one, and none of that deterred you. Think about what you're already carrying on your person: wallet, keys, phone, gun. That's enough already without adding a cheesy fake badge.
They're going to tell me to put my gun down and hold perfectly still, and I'm not going to invite trouble by doing anything they didn't tell me to do. They're not seriously going to ask me to get my own ID out and show it to them, they're going to cuff me and search me, and in the course of their search get my ID. Cops can't be everywhere, but once they're there, they will sort it out.
And if you're showing a badge to someone to get them to refrain from attacking you, I wouldn't bet much on that gamble.
But lets say you still want to carry one, and none of that deterred you. Think about what you're already carrying on your person: wallet, keys, phone, gun. That's enough already without adding a cheesy fake badge.
Big Boomer
Member
To stay on topic as much as possible, would you get into "trouble"?
It is perfectly legal to wear one (in most states). Ill advised mind you but perfectly legal.
You may get "lectured" by an officer or three. They may get huffy and puffy but hey do what you want. You are trying to enter into their "superior" area and they don't like it.
As long as you do not EVER identify yourself as an officer of anything nor act on perceived authority of an LEO you will be ok.
There are some specifics, in some states using the state seal is forbidden, in some 5 pointed stars are illegal, each state has its own rules and regulations.
As a general rule, contrary to popular belief, LEO's do not open fire immediately while entering an area that was called in as "shots fired" or "man down" or "jihadist pink elephants smoking crack and wielding 50 cals"
If you don't point your weapon at them, they'll most likely not fire at you. IF something actually happened that you had to defend yourself, by the time they actually arrived on scene you would most likely have already holstered your weapon. You will be arrested most likely anyhow regardless if you had some silly badge or not.
You will NOT get paid administrative leave while in jail. Your badge will not get you out of jail quicker. I see them as no different than the "fugitive recovery badges" for those fools that are bounty hunters.
If by chance a LEO happens to see such a badge that is not being flashed in a self defense environment, general rule of thumb is they will ask you what it is for and what your intent is with it. Think of it as a fishing trip, they are determining intent. Just like having a baseball bat behind your seat is perfectly legal until they ask "what's the bat for" and your response is "self defense" now it is an illegal club and not a tool for a game.
A badge is a shiny piece of metal, unless you intend to use it differently than that it remains just a shiny piece of metal. Sorta like a belt buckle I guess.
You see many people out there that wear them. I bet less than 1/100th of 1% of the belt buckles out there have been won as a prize in a rodeo. Being a former bareback rider, it used to chap my hide to see someone with a fake prize buckle. But, you could tell it right away. This was usually because of the person wearing it.
The same thing goes with carrying a gun. Carrying a gun in a nice belt and holster (sharkskin for me) probably says volumes about the person that carries it. I would more worry about your wardrobe than a badge.
I would as likely be shot by an LEO arriving to a SD situation as mickey mouse at disneyland being arrested for suspicion as a child molester.
Act as if boys. Act like you are fine upstanding citizens and dress in the same manner and you will get positive reactions from society, period.
It is perfectly legal to wear one (in most states). Ill advised mind you but perfectly legal.
You may get "lectured" by an officer or three. They may get huffy and puffy but hey do what you want. You are trying to enter into their "superior" area and they don't like it.
As long as you do not EVER identify yourself as an officer of anything nor act on perceived authority of an LEO you will be ok.
There are some specifics, in some states using the state seal is forbidden, in some 5 pointed stars are illegal, each state has its own rules and regulations.
As a general rule, contrary to popular belief, LEO's do not open fire immediately while entering an area that was called in as "shots fired" or "man down" or "jihadist pink elephants smoking crack and wielding 50 cals"
If you don't point your weapon at them, they'll most likely not fire at you. IF something actually happened that you had to defend yourself, by the time they actually arrived on scene you would most likely have already holstered your weapon. You will be arrested most likely anyhow regardless if you had some silly badge or not.
You will NOT get paid administrative leave while in jail. Your badge will not get you out of jail quicker. I see them as no different than the "fugitive recovery badges" for those fools that are bounty hunters.
If by chance a LEO happens to see such a badge that is not being flashed in a self defense environment, general rule of thumb is they will ask you what it is for and what your intent is with it. Think of it as a fishing trip, they are determining intent. Just like having a baseball bat behind your seat is perfectly legal until they ask "what's the bat for" and your response is "self defense" now it is an illegal club and not a tool for a game.
A badge is a shiny piece of metal, unless you intend to use it differently than that it remains just a shiny piece of metal. Sorta like a belt buckle I guess.
You see many people out there that wear them. I bet less than 1/100th of 1% of the belt buckles out there have been won as a prize in a rodeo. Being a former bareback rider, it used to chap my hide to see someone with a fake prize buckle. But, you could tell it right away. This was usually because of the person wearing it.
The same thing goes with carrying a gun. Carrying a gun in a nice belt and holster (sharkskin for me) probably says volumes about the person that carries it. I would more worry about your wardrobe than a badge.
I would as likely be shot by an LEO arriving to a SD situation as mickey mouse at disneyland being arrested for suspicion as a child molester.
Act as if boys. Act like you are fine upstanding citizens and dress in the same manner and you will get positive reactions from society, period.
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