Concealed Cary Badges???

[Robert Wilson]

First, how likely is it that the gun is going to be seen by the hoplophobe AND a plastic toy badge is going to fix it?

Judging by the threads I have seen at THR, many CCW holders have accidentally flashed their concealed handguns. Is it such a stretch to assume that at least a few of those "flashes" were visible to bystanders? And is it such a stretch to imagine that at least some of those bystanders would be unconcerned about an armed LEO and more concerned about an armed "just some guy"? Not in my opinion.

Second, how about if you are stopped by LEO for anything... maybe even a traffic stop. LEO asks you if you have any weapons, because maybe he discovered your permit when checking your driver's license. You answer, yes, I have a concealed handgun. The cop desires to disarm you, "for officer safety" of course, and discovers this plastic toy badge next to your gun. Kind officer says to you, "And just what in the hell is this?!?"

"It's a CCW badge, officer. I'm not pretending to be anybody; I just don't want to set off a panic if someone accidentally sees my gun."

I think either scenario, the first or the second have about the same chances of happening.

The same argument could be used against the entire principal of CCW. The chances of actually needing a gun, of course, are quite slim. That does not mean that the chances are zero, however, which is why the wise man carries where practicable, despite any HCI foolishness about "wild west" and "shot with his own gun".

Like I said, just show the real permit that actually has authority behind it, if you want to show anything....

I have seen leather and plastic cases designed to hold the CCW permit. They look quite "official" and could well serve the same purpose as a badge. But it seems to me that they are subject to the same potential problems, as well. Is the general opinion that a man wearing his permit in an officious manner is trying to convince us that he is something he is not?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

and you can guarantee that a criminal (or an inept cop) at night won't?

But that's dodging the point. This is a "make yourself known" device. This assumes, you the carrier of such a device, want yourself to be seen by responding officers. There is nothing to be gained from trying to identify yourself to responding officers, but in a dark and poorly visible manner. If there's bad guys still around, you're a target shiny thing or not. If the cop is inept enough to shoot at the first shiny object he sees, you're a target shiny thing or not. My point being, if the circumstance add up to you being shot by a responding officer or still active bad guy, this little device is not going to be the thing that makes or breaks you.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am still going to stick with my opinion that flashing anything shiny at a cop at night during a shtf situation is a bad idea, when the cop was called out due to a shots fired situation already.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I am still going to stick with my opinion that flashing anything shiny at a cop at night during a shtf situation is a bad idea, when the cop was called out due to a shots fired situation already.

Roger that Sir.

 

[Skylerbone]

Wow! I can see someone REALLY WANTS ONE! Stupid things happen to stupid people. If I were ever involved in a shooting it would be because I could not safely flee and there was no other sensible alternative meaning I was being/about to be fired upon. Assuming the threat had been neutralized, I guarantee that my "carry piece" (I call it a pistol) would be back in its holster before I heard sirens. My hands would be more than visible, they would be laced behind my head when police arrived. But I'm one of those guys that doesn't want to be shot.

I'll repeat what I said before: if you "accidentally" "flash your carry piece" (again, I call it a pistol) you won't have that privlege for long. Once you're charged with a gun crime, they take them away. I don't make excuses for idiots and neither should anyone else. Maybe a nice tube sock over the "carry piece" would keep it hidden in case of "accidental flashes".

Even if you have the right to carry you must determine if you SHOULD. With laws changing everywhere there are bound to be multitudes "packing heat" that shouldn't be. Buy your badge, it won't help you.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Let me ask you this Robert Wilson,

Let's say a cop asks you why you have the plastic toy badge located next to your gun on your belt. What are you going to tell him? "So that if my gun is accidentally exposed, a person won't call 911 on me." The real cop then asks you, "Why wouldn't they call 911 if they saw your gun and your plastic badge?" and you reply, "Well, because they might think I am a law enforcement officer and therefore think it is OK for me to have the gun?" Then the real cop asks you, "So, you are wearing the badge to make someone think that you are a cop if they see your gun?"

How well do you think that is going to go for you? ESPECIALLY if someone does call 911 and says, "You know, I saw this guy, and he had a gun... he had a badge next to it, but something just didn't look right to me..."

 

[Robert Wilson]

In the exact scenario you have constructed I doubt it would go well at all. But that scenario is your own construct.

I suspect there is a better answer than "because they might think I am a law enforcement officer and therefore think it is OK for me to have the gun". In a similar situation I might try "If someone accidentally saw the badge along with the gun they might be more likely to assume I am legally carrying it".

Personally I think the main line against badges is the (quite reasonable) argument that many people inclined to wear badges are also trying to pretend they are "special" and are hoping to show off their "specialness" whenever possible. As prejudicial as that is, though, I don't see it as a good reason not to wear a badge for the reason I describe. I remain open to the possibility that there is a very good reason not to wear the badge. I just haven't yet seen it.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Wow! I can see someone REALLY WANTS ONE!

No call to be an ass about it, mate. It's just a discussion. I don't have a horse in the race, so to speak, as I can't carry in my jurisdiction.

Stupid things happen to stupid people. If I were ever involved in a shooting it would be because I could not safely flee and there was no other sensible alternative meaning I was being/about to be fired upon. Assuming the threat had been neutralized, I guarantee that my "carry piece" (I call it a pistol) would be back in its holster before I heard sirens. My hands would be more than visible, they would be laced behind my head when police arrived. But I'm one of those guys that doesn't want to be shot.

Again, I have seen posts by any number of folks on this site who have accidentally exposed their carry pieces -- which, by the way, was a term often used by Jeff Cooper, which would seem to lend it a certain validity. Regardless, all those folks may indeed be "stupid", but I'm glad I'm not the one who has to defend the accusation.

<edit> Actually, there seems to be enough emotion on the topic - for reasons that escape me - that I'm deleting the rest and going to bed. A lot of folks seem to be quite angrily against the idea, for reasons they can't quite elucidate. I think perhaps in the morning I will ask some questions about a less contentious topic. Abortion, for instance.

Cheers, all.

 

[dec41971]

Dumbest idea that somehow keeps being thrown out there. If only people would stay away from it!

 

[NavyLCDR]

I suspect there is a better answer than "because they might think I am a law enforcement officer and therefore think it is OK for me to have the gun". In a similar situation I might try "If someone accidentally saw the badge along with the gun they might be more likely to assume I am legally carrying it".

I doubt there is a cop in the world who would not translate that into "by thinking you are a cop". If you want to cause someone to think you are legally carrying a gun, then show your dang permit - just don't do it in a reflective case at night to a cop in a shtf situation with shots already reported as being fired. The cop may just mistake that flash of the reflector as the flash off of a nickel plated gun...

 

[nwilliams]

CCW Badges are simply ridiculous and sad.

The whole point of having a CCL is to carry concealed, so why would you want to walk around with a badge advertising that you are carrying. Further the only reason I can see anyone wanting a CCW badge is if they wanted people to think they are LE and in that case you are not carrying concealed to protect yourself you are carrying with the intention of playing cop and as far as I'm concerned if you want to play cop then you need to become a cop.

 

[ChCx2744]

NOT a good idea.

 

[TexasBill]

Around here, we have a variety of badge-toters: dozens of various police, sheriff, constable agencies; assorted feds from U.S. Marshals to DHS, FBI and Secret Service, judges, firefighters, EMTs, school security and so forth. I was in a doughnut shop not long ago and there was a gentleman with a Glock on his belt and a badge clipped next to it in the accepted Hollywood/prime time TV fashion. He was a district attorney investigator.

In case of a shooting incident, the best way to show the responding officers that you're a good guy is open hands held away from your body. There's no point in either a badge or your license being on display at all: empty hands = no immediate threat to the officer. That should keep you alive long enough to show a license upon request. (Incidentally, despite the terrible grammar, the advice on that card is good: statements you don't make can't be used against you.)

If you want a badge, get a badge and go in peace. There must have been enough people who did buy them that reputable badge companies like Blackington and Smith & Warren require proof (a copy of the license or permit) before they will sell you a CCW badge, but there are any number of generic sources.

To be honest, I thought (briefly) about getting one because I open carry at home and figured it might forestall questions from the UPS man and others. But I wouldn't wear it in public for a couple of reasons: first, it might cause problems with the real police; second, it might make someone think I am a police officer and call on me to render aid or assistance that I couldn't provide. Either situation is bad.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

To be honest, I thought (briefly) about getting one because I open carry at home and figured it might forestall questions from the UPS man and others. But I wouldn't wear it in public for a couple of reasons: first, it might cause problems with the real police; second, it might make someone think I am a police officer and call on me to render aid or assistance that I couldn't provide. Either situation is bad.

True enough. I think a lot of the people who buy these badges secretly do want to be mistaken for a police officer. But it's kind of a "the grass is always greener" type situation. Once you become a cop, being known as an officer for 8-12 hours a day is quite enough thanks. When I'm at Walmart or Jimmy Johns getting a sub, or even just hanging out with non-cop friends, I don't want to be broadcasting that image all the time. You get odd looks, you get awkward questions, and you're always "the cop" whenever you're at a party or out with buddies. It's tiresome. I generally don't like being out in public and knowing a lot of eyes are on me, especially when most of the minds behind those eyes are probably thinking I'm a big meanie-head <edit-Sam> just because of what job I have. I think most of the guys who get those CCW badges have some sort of hero complex and think it's cool to be looked at as special or something with their shiny badge and gun. But once you're out every night getting sworn at, spit at, lied to, and every once and a while, kicked and punched, you realize that badge attracts a lot more hatred than admiration.

 

[Ramman911]

Just spit soda out my nose from laughing so hard on some of the comments here. I have a friend that likes to "play dress up" and sport a CCW badge. I just don't have it in me to tell him he looks like a tool. I wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of those silly things.

Those sashes would make pretty good gag gifts.

 

[evan price]

What it goes down to is this:

A CCW is NOT license to be Batman. If you are such a lousy CCW that your gun is being seen all the time, maybe your problem is not lack of a badge, but lack of basic sense and training in how to carry properly. If the idea of being seen "Zounds! I've been seen!" is so terrible to you, maybe you should not be carrying in the first place. I have never, ever met anyone who had a CCW badge that was not also a cop-wannabe. So far I am 100% in this. No bit of shiny tin is going to make a difference if you are "seen"... the conversation would then go to,
"Are you a cop?"
"No!"
"Then why do you have a badge and gun, AiieEEEE!"

Save your money, spend it on GOOD holsters and belts and training. There's more to being a CCW than carrying a gun. Mindset is much more important than tools!

ETA: I guess I'm spoiled because Ohio is an open-carry state, and if I am "seen" I just say Good Morning! and keep on walking.

 

[Jonah71]

My CCW instructor and EVERY LEO I know tell me it's a bad idea and I'd have to agree with them. I occasionally OC but I'm in a very small town where pretty much everybody knows everybody and it's highly unlikely I'd ever be mistaken for a police officer, nor would I want to be. The badge is a bad idea. And kinda childish imo.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

While some interesting points were brought up, it seems that no one is willing or able to address them fully. Maybe next month.

I'm going to close this one out.