CCW and dogs?

[Lex Luthier]

Apologies to the mods if this is not the right category.

Has anyone here ever been in an altercation with a pit bull or other attacking animal, and considered protecting themselves? I have been in a few memorable situations recently, notably one where I crossed a large pit bull with a seemingly aggressive owner (letting the lead loose so the the dog can get within a few feet of me, and pulling it back).

Would you draw on the dog? Or when does the owner need to know that you are not willing to participate in his immaturity? When would you cross the line of protecting yourself by taking an attacking animal down?

rg

 

[OARNGESI]

Are you a mailman

 

[The Sarge]

If I feel my life is threatened I will pull my gun. Two legged or four legged.
Our Governor shot a coyote who attacked his dog while they were jogging.
He is a CCW. Not the dog...the Governor

 

[ball3006]

I always carry a pistol when I go for my daily walk around the block, about 2 miles. There are alot of mean acting dogs on the several routes I take. If I get threatened, I will pull my pistol. I did once and the owner pleaded with me not to shoot his dog. chris3

 

[mgkdrgn]

Dogs are actually one of the reasons I got my CCW. Walking my (rather old) golden retriever we would cross the path of several rather nasty canines. (A pair of them got loose about a year ago and literally tore my neighbors cat to bits).

If they were out, or got out while we walked by I have no doubt it would be either them or my dog ... and it wasn't going to be my dog.

I would have drawn in the situation you described ... what my "point of aim" might have been is questionable ...

 

[dannyr3_8]

no i have not been in that situation but i would not hesitate to defend myself against any animal if it's him or me it's going to be him

 

[Mike1234567]

I walk my old pug every morning and night. So far we've only seen barking dogs just warning us to stay off their property and I'm not worried about those dogs because they're just doing their job. If either of us are attacked I'll definitely pull and shoot if I must. However, I also carry a three-foot-long piece of 1.5" PVC pipe to push, jab or hit with first. If it's a vicious attack then I'll not bother with the pipe.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Has anyone here ever been in an altercation with a pit bull or other attacking animal, and considered protecting themselves?

Yes

Would you draw on the dog?

I have. But he was off-leash and on my property (repeated incidents), and I had logged multiple complaints with animal control. It was regrettable. It was what it was, and I had very young children to think about at the time. It wasn't the dog's fault that he had a poor excuse for an owner.

That being said, 9.5 out of 10 times the problem can be solved without destroying the dog. But for an attacking dog, yeah...I'll shoot him. I've seen what a sizable dog can do to a small child.

 

[MtnCreek]

If you draw a weapon on a leashed dog, expect the owner to report you to law enforcement. Also expect their story to be embellished.

 

[Kingcreek]

I live rural. Had an incident with neighbors' 3 pit and mixed breed dogs attacking me while changing a tire on a trailer. I fought them back gladiator style with a tire iron and wood pallet until I could get in my truck. contacted dog owners who were renting a house about 1 mile away with a strong suggestion they control thier canines and got denials and "they wouldn't hurt anybody, etc". I started carrying everyday everwhere even when doing chores around the yard. about 10 days later I had a repeat attack while out repairing some fence that ended badly for 2 dogs. used the front-end loader on the tractor and buried them right there. When I talked to thier landlord a few days later I was told the renting neighbors moved out in the middle of the night and left a toxic meth lab behind. I did not enjoy shooting those dogs but I also don't regret it.

 

[ForumSurfer]

If you draw a weapon on a leashed dog, expect the owner to report you to law enforcement. Also expect their story to be embellished.

Yep.

You can also replace "embellished" with "an outright lie."

That's why I was glad to have multiple complaints logged with the local animal control.

 

[Hangingrock]

I do my fair share of walking 5-8 miles every other day. Your demeanor and a stout walking stick solve most problems. Out here where the sunshine is pumped in single dogs aren’t that problematic it’s the pack behavior and the alpha male pack leader that’s trouble. I’d have no problems shooting a dog if that course of action were necessary. As an owner of a dog I maintain control of it so that it is not a problem to others.

 

[barnetmill]

Dogs are one of the major reasons I CCW. If you run across an aggressive doberman or pitbull type my hand would definitely be on my gun, whether I would draw or not depends. The non-gun hand would be directed towards to threat with the fist closed. Give the dog something other than your gunhand to grab. Remember dogs can be hard to stop and they can be quite quick. When I run it is difficult to carry a gun and I carry piece of #5 rebar wrapped in a towel.

 

[Cousin Mike]

When I started carrying, years ago, I wasn't concerned much with dogs. I'm the parent of a toddler now, and that changes your perspective quite a bit. Dogs are one of my primary concerns now, and I don't think I ever fully realized how dangerous they were before. The last place I lived, there were quite a few irresponsible dog owners, kids, etc. that would allow their pets to get away from them and run up the street unattended. Luckily (for all involved), they all kept their distance and were very even-tempered animals. I like dogs, and grew up with them. I'm considering one for my family. That said, any dog I encounter that is aggressive toward me or my company, and closing distance is a lethal threat, and would be treated as such without hesitation. That goes double if said company includes my son. If the dog stayed at a distance, I don't think I would shoot it.

 

[Sav .250]

If you honestly "feel" threatened, I would certainly let the owner know that you will defend yourself if he lets his dangerous dog come at you.
That being said, be ready to back up your statement!
Those dogs(Pit-bulls) are a very dangerous breed. Prover many times over...

 

[Mike1234567]

^^^ One doesn't always know who the owner is. Also, if one feels threatened the time to act is now.

ETA #1: I was once stalked by three large pitbulls as I unloaded groceries from the trunk of my car. I filled both hands, turned around, and there they were creeping up behind me silently, heads lowered, and eyes fixed to mine. Stupid me... I didn't carry my pistol to the grocery store THAT time. I knew not to run so I raised the bags as high as I could and started yelling at them. They stopped but didn't run and kept their eyes fixed on me. The leader readied himself to jump so I began rattling the bags, yelled louder, and started walking towards them. They decided to let me go and moved on... walking, not running, and growling the whole time. I called the police and they responded but the dogs were long gone.

A few days later I heard what sounded like a woman screaming outside at about 3 AM. It was dark so all I could tell from across the street was that a dog was attacking something or someone and had it pinned to the ground. The screams kept coming. It no longer sounded like a person but I still wasn't sure. As I approached I could see that it was that very same leader pitbull (same color spots and same ratty leash) and it had its jaws locked on a neighbor dog's throat.

What went racing through my mind was that pitbull had stalked me and, I'm sure, would have attacked me a few nights earlier. I'd been worrying that it and the other two pitbulls would eventually mame or kill someone's child (MANY children in that neighborhood). Even so, I tried to pull the pitbull off but it clenched the other dog's throat tighter so it could no longer breathe. I pulled my 9mm, took extremely careful aim and shot it in the head.

I hate having to do that but I know I did the right thing.

ETA #2: This incident ocurred in my old neighborhood. I'm very happy to be away from there.

 

[Dr_B]

As long as both animals are on a leash, shouldn't you be able to walk away? I'd be more inclined to reach for a weapon if the dog is roaming without an owner nearby. I have used an oak pick handle on two dogs that threatened me while I was jogging. They were following me closely and behaving aggressively. One swat with the stick and they quit.

 

[Princi]

I was in my front yard when two dogs came charging down the street at me. We have a leash law, and not knowing if these were feral dogs, or what, I quickly pulled the S&W 360 and the laser came on. I don't know if it was the laser or gun, but they quickly changed course. I was relieved because I didn't really want to pull the trigger. (The recoil is really nasty).

 

[19-3Ben]

I don't know if it was the laser or gun, but they quickly changed course. I was relieved because I didn't really want to pull the trigger.

More likely that you put off an energy that says "I can defend myself and will not let you hurt me."

Dogs are really good at picking up vibes and body language.

 

[Hardware]

I laughed at the question posed by the OP. Because I've been there.

I was visiting a friend in PA. I had come with my dog, a pit bull, on a leash. I was open carrying. We were sitting around on his patio when his neighbor let his Neopolitan Mastiff out into their unfenced back yard. His dog saw my dog and charged. I drew my dog back onto a short lead to control him while the dog ran across the lawn. Fortunately my dog is friendly with other dogs. But I had zero idea of the attitude of the Mastiff. At 120 pounds estimated, I also realized things could get deadly serious really fast. They sniffed around each other while I was trying to control my dog. I admit that a couple of times my hand strayed near my holster. What was restraining me was the fact that the Mastiff was not openly aggressive. Shortly, the owner of the Mastiff saw the situation and called his dog back. The dog didn't respond right away, but eventually recalled. I made sure to wave to the owner of the dog for being responsible enough to check on his dog.

I'd have hated to shoot his dog if something had happened, but I certainly would have. I'm sure it would have been a bad situation. But PA law says that an off leash dog attacking your animal can be destroyed. ((Section 501 et. seq.). Under the latter, any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal, including household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such a dog bears a required license tag. There is no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing.) I knew the law regarding leashed dogs in PA. Just like I know the law regarding OC in PA.

 

[sidheshooter]

Dogs, as most above seem to agree, are a concern anywhere outside of, say, an airport. I don't see use of force guidelines changing all that much from any lethal force encounter: AOJ. Incidentally, there is a guy local to me who spent into 6 figures defending himself in civil court for shooting a dog. He had the dough and wanted to stand his ground. He won, FWIW.

Sticks and dogs may be a bit more of a grey area than sticks and people. I'd love to hear from any attorneys on this as well. The one time I've had a problem with a dog that couldn't be solved by reasoning with them in doggy language, I used a stick-or more specifically-nunchakus. Now, THOSE, will stop a mean, charging dog, even a big one.

When I walk with our own aging pit/boxer mix (who actually is as sweet as all owners claim theirs to be; even the mailman likes him), I carry an ASP. It's not just for other dogs-I've read that anyone who owns a "lockjaw" breed should carry a breaker bar with them. I don't know; I just can't see it with our dog, but it makes for a good excuse.

 

[double bogey]

I had a similar situation as the OP. I was in my front yard adjusting a sprinkler, when a 17-19 year old kid walked by with a large pit. The dog was growling and trying to get to me. The kid laughed and acted like he would let the dog loose. I put my hand in my pocket on my 1911, and told him if he let the dog loose I would shoot it, and since he attacked I would shoot him also. He quickly got he dog on a short leash, and hurried away. That was 5 years ago and I have not seen either since. I walk my neighborhood with my dog a lot, always armed. Only problems I ever encountered were a gang of chihauhuas, and my brittany didn't know what to do. the owner came out and corralled them, it was pretty humerous, but I think back and wonder how it would have went down if they had been large dogs.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I had a stand-off with a Rottweiller a while back; collared, no leash, no owner in sight. Growling, baring teeth, sometimes barking. If I tried to back away, he closed distance, and I wasn't going to approach; so there we stood.

I was traveling, and so had only a knife. No cell phone. And was pushing a baby carriage containing my 1-year-old. Knife was locked open, in my hand, and not out of my jacket pocket yet. Me between dog and carriage. I calmly and loudly called for help, for maybe 5 minutes, as the dog kept right on growling and barking.

Eventually a neighbor came out, found the owner, and the owner called him off.

Some folks like to carry .25s, .32s, .380s for SD. That day was one reason I don't like to carry anything less than .38 158 gr. (If I'd had the gun that day, I don't think anything would have changed, except I'd have been holding it instead of the knife.)

Handsome dog, by the way.

 

[sidheshooter]

Handsome dog, by the way.

Spoken like a true gentleman.

Good point on ammo selection; though these things can always go either way, I personally give the average guard dog breed credit for more heart and fortitude than the average criminal. .380 out of a mini auto starts to look pretty bad once the deterrent factor is completely removed from the equation.

 

[JustinJ]

Pepper spray is by far the better choice against a dog for multiple reasons. Hitting a target moving as fast as a dog can be difficult with a handgun. Second, firing a gun puts others and their property at risk. Not to mention the unwanted attention and most cities have an ordinance against firing guns inside the city limits. If done so to protect one's self from a dog its highly unlikely charges would be filed but doing so to protect your own dog may be a different story. I'd also hate to shoot a dog just because he has a sorry owner.