CCW at a dinner party?

[rero360]

In my state, it's illegal to "carry" in someone else's residence.

I have LEO friends, who are required to carry even when off duty. I'd have no problem with them.

I have many friends who just like me have CCWs. If I invite one of them over, they leave their guns in the car. If I go to their house, I leave my gun in the car. I have no business with a loaded gun in their house, as they have none with one in mine.".

why do you make a difference between LEOs and non LEOs? honestly, because in my opinion there is absolutely no difference between a LEO and a non LEO, especially when the LEO is off duty. My one cousin is a CO, another is a sheriff, and another is a town cop, and I'm a Infantry/MP soldier, yet we don't make a big deal about it between us or our non LEO/military friends and family, those that can pack, do so and those who cannot don't, but we all will go outside and shoot and have a good time.

at a thanksgiving dinner a couple of years ago my cousin the town cop came over to the party while on duty, it was his uncles house, and we got talking about guns and he took his piece out and unloaded it and passed it around, even letting my 9 year old cousin check it out, after he got it back, got reloaded and reholstered, no big deal.

 

[kaferhaus]

Yours is a perfectly reasonable position, and is perfectly consistent with what I and others have been saying, because the man expressed his wishes and you, as a friend, then made a choice to comply or stay home.

NO the arguement is, is it okay to bring a concealed loaded gun into someone's home who doesn't know you have it!

The fellow's response follows what I've said should be done all along. YOU ASK and then you FOLLOW the wishes of the homeowner.

Most of the posters to this thread believe just the opposite is find and dandy.

 

[pete f]

Boy do you live in a deluded mindset. I carry everywhere. Unless they have metal detectors on hte doors I am carrying. PERIOD. I am not afraid in the peoples home. I am often afraid of the area in which they live.

I have been to several parties and get togethers of friends who have moved into poorer neighborhoods in a tentmakers mission attempt to improve an area by their presence. A local church has worked hard to convince people that moving into the blighted areas is a ministry. Not for my family but i understand the idea. I carry there and back because keeping the gun on me is safer than leaving it in the car. And i will not take my wife and or kids to a neighborhood like that without protection. You may say it is rude, but I say it is prudent. it is also legal.

I also have friends who have bought a new condo over looking the mississippi river in a very nice part of town that borders what has become the sex district. Quite often the area where visitors can park and walk to the condo's has become the place where hookers bring their johns for quickie. Am I going to be carrying there? Absolutely.

If I am going out for the evening I will dress in a such a way that no one will ever know that I am carrying. I expect most would assume that I carry as it is well know of my position on this issue. I believe it the God given responsiblity of myself as a father and husband to protect my wife and kids. I am no nonsense on this issue, I expect most would understand that is my conviction, and knowing my conviction they would be surprised if i did not carry all the time.

The criminal actor does not wait till it is a good time for you to be carrying before he strikes. In most cases, seeing a dressed up and seemingly affluent couple on the town would make me a greater target. That is my reasoning for defending my self at all times.

 

[Winzeler]

Absolutely I do. The LEO may get a call to respond too.

It's just not a polite thing to do.

You trust LEOs higher than your friends. You and I clearly have no common ground here. I trust LEOs less than my average friend. There is nothing about an LEO that makes him less likely to be a deviant, (or more honorable) than the average person I'd invite to my house. You have your opinion, and that's fine. Let me have mine.

 

[lawdogso]

If I were the host and a guest that I didn't know real well was packing I would assume he was going to do me harm. After proning him out and disarming him he would be assisted off the property. While doing so I would more than likely call the sheriff and make a report as well. To be invited to my house for a formal gathering and pack while doing so would set off some alarms with me! Great if we have history and knowledge of one anothers skills, but a person who I don't really know just shows up with a concealed gun... We have trouble!
lawdogso

 

[TexasRifleman]

Your mama drop you on your head when you were little?

It's just not a polite thing to do.

Maybe someones' bipolar is flaring up? Your argument just sank buddy.

 

[carebear]

Hawkeye,

Yeah, I was just pointing out my take more than "arguing". Now, when it comes to businesses my internal consistency goes out the window.

For people who aren't friends and to whom I am not willing to expose my carrying, I tend to "not go" both to be legal and to remain internally consistent.

I'm like a CCW vampire, I have no power in their home unless I am invited.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

If I were the host and a guest that I didn't know real well was packing I would assume he was going to do me harm. After proning him out and disarming him he would be assisted off the property. While doing so I would more than likely call the sheriff and make a report as well. To be invited to my house for a formal gathering and pack while doing so would set off some alarms with me! Great if we have history and knowledge of one anothers skills, but a person who I don't really know just shows up with a concealed gun... We have trouble!
lawdogso

Kafer, that's a pretty good trick. No support, so you join THR a second time under a different name. I'll have to remember that.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

These really are an excellent set of responses. Thank you all! In the interest of keeping the discussion going, it's apparent that there are different schools of thought here:

1. Carry at all times
2. Use judgement to figure out whether your hosts would approve or not
3. Carry only when you feel you would be in danger
4. Ask your host
5. Survey the entire party when you get there and get waivers and disclaimers from all ("I, the undersigned, as of this date and time, am not offended, threatened, or otherwise intimidated by X carrying a concealed weapon in my presence...")

The problem is that #3 on the list (which I highlighted) always applies. It has already been pointed out that a party host probably can't guarantee that there won't be a home invasion during a party, so why should a guest feel safer at the party than in their own home?

I just reviewed my state's firearms laws, and there doesn't seem to be any mention of requiring permission of anyone to carry anywhere on private property ... except (oddly enough) for BB guns, of all things. I need my neighbor's permission to pack a BB gun onto their property, but not my carry piece. Go figure.

So for me, it comes down to: The law doesn't prohibit it, so I ain't asking permission to do what the law allows me to do. If a host sees the gun and doesn't like it ... I will gladly depart the premises peacefully, and permanently. If I lived in a state with a requirement like Alaska's, I would comply with the law and ask permission.

 

[kaferhaus]

Boy do you live in a deluded mindset. I carry everywhere. Unless they have metal detectors on hte doors I am carrying. PERIOD. I am not afraid in the peoples home. I am often afraid of the area in which they live.

I have been to several parties and get togethers of friends who have moved into poorer neighborhoods in a tentmakers mission attempt to improve an area by their presence. A local church has worked hard to convince people that moving into the blighted areas is a ministry. Not for my family but i understand the idea. I carry there and back because keeping the gun on me is safer than leaving it in the car. And i will not take my wife and or kids to a neighborhood like that without protection. You may say it is rude, but I say it is prudent. it is also legal.

I also have friends who have bought a new condo over looking the mississippi river in a very nice part of town that borders what has become the sex district. Quite often the area where visitors can park and walk to the condo's has become the place where hookers bring their johns for quickie. Am I going to be carrying there? Absolutely.

If I am going out for the evening I will dress in a such a way that no one will ever know that I am carrying. I expect most would assume that I carry as it is well know of my position on this issue. I believe it the God given responsiblity of myself as a father and husband to protect my wife and kids. I am no nonsense on this issue, I expect most would understand that is my conviction, and knowing my conviction they would be surprised if i did not carry all the time.

The criminal actor does not wait till it is a good time for you to be carrying before he strikes. In most cases, seeing a dressed up and seemingly affluent couple on the town would make me a greater target. That is my reasoning for defending my self at all times.

Your statement as do most of the others has nothing to do with the arguement at hand.

 

[TexasRifleman]

If I were the host and a guest that I didn't know real well was packing I would assume he was going to do me harm. After proning him out and disarming him he would be assisted off the property. While doing so I would more than likely call the sheriff and make a report as well. To be invited to my house for a formal gathering and pack while doing so would set off some alarms with me! Great if we have history and knowledge of one anothers skills, but a person who I don't really know just shows up with a concealed gun... We have trouble!
lawdogso

And in Texas you'd go to jail, if the other guy didn't shoot you first. Gonna have a hell of a hard time using the castle doctrine for drawing down on a CHL holder that you invited into your home who has done nothing to you, let alone even unholstered his weapon.

Hell, I volunteer, I could use a good civil suit. Invite me over......

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I've sat down knowingly with a house full of people packing iron and thought nothing of it.

THR Colorado get-togethers are fun.

Exactly. I hosted the last three get togethers. The first one (and others) included Dr. Rob, Justin, Standing Wolf, Zundfolge, Labgrade and some I'm sure I'm leaving out.

I had never met any of these folks before, but we were sitting around my living room that evening and I not only suspected most were armed but I expected they were and would have been surprised if they weren't.

People of like minds.

kaferhaus, this statement by you:

Under alabama law you enter someone's home armed, the homeowner has the right to assume you intend to harm them and have every right to shoot you.

Colorado has probably the best castle doctrine law in the nation, the "Make My Day" law it's called. However it doesn't cover the situation you described. I think you need to check your laws closer.

In Colorado, if someone enters your home illegally, AND appears to committing another crime (such as being armed), you may be justified in using deadly force.

Good luck on your defense if you invite someone into your home and then shoot them for packing a concealed weapon.

 

[browningguy]

Well I guess I won't be visiting kaferhaus in his home. Even though I almost always advise "friends" and respect their wishes, I'm not going to be holed up with someone so out of control of their emotions without being armed.

Anyone that would murder another person, that is otherwise legally carrying, but didn't mention it to him is way out there in my book. I don't think my God would be too happy with how that went down.

The only time I don't advise "friends" is when I forget I'm carrying, but that's just me. If I know you well enough to invite you to my house, and you have a CHL, I figure you're probably ok.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Your statement as do most of the others has nothing to do with the arguement at hand.

No, the argument didn't begin until you asserted that you'd send a licensed CCW holder to his maker if you invited him to dinner and he mentioned in friendly conversation that he carries a handgun 24/7 for self defense.

 

[kaferhaus]

Kafer, that's a pretty good trick. No support, so you join THR a second time under a different name. I'll have to remember that.

Ha, you do have problems...

Now I'm faking posts?

get a life, I'm a big boy. I don't need any "support", it's just simply wrong to carry a gun into someone's home without their permission, Period!

 

[kaferhaus]

No, the argument didn't begin until you asserted that you'd send a licensed CCW holder to his maker if you invited him to dinner and he mentioned in friendly conversation that he carries a handgun 24/7 for self defense.

I said no such thing.

But in the right circumstance it could lead to that.

IF it came up in polite conversation, he'd be tossed out of my house and then arrested.

If it came up some other way, he may not be so lucky.

 

[Zundfolge]

If I were the host and a guest that I didn't know real well was packing I would assume he was going to do me harm. After proning him out and disarming him he would be assisted off the property. While doing so I would more than likely call the sheriff and make a report as well. To be invited to my house for a formal gathering and pack while doing so would set off some alarms with me! Great if we have history and knowledge of one anothers skills, but a person who I don't really know just shows up with a concealed gun... We have trouble!
lawdogso

I don't invite anyone into my home I wouldn't trust armed, maybe that policy would serve you better than "proning and disarming" your guests.

 

[Michael Courtney]

1st I'd never allow anyone to bring a firearm into my house unless they were INVITED WITH THE FIREARM.

I think your question is absurd.

Bringing a concealed weapon into someones home without their prior consent is begging to be shot or humiliated in front of everyone else there.

I've had a CWP for over 30yrs and I've never even considered carrying a gun into someone else's home.

WHY would you even consider such an action? Are you in fear of your life at this person's home? If so, why the hell are you going?

I don't leave my insurance card when I go to a dinner party, why should I leave my pistol? I don't anticipate needing my leatherman at a dinner party, but I always have it with me also.

The notion that certain items, privately carried, need to be left in one's vehicle or at home, for fear of offending the host, is absurd.

What next, should I leave my penis in the car for fear that the host might discover that I am circumcised and take offense?

Michael Courtney

 

[Zundfolge]

No, the argument didn't begin until you asserted that you'd send a licensed CCW holder to his maker if you invited him to dinner and he mentioned in friendly conversation that he carries a handgun 24/7 for self defense.

I said no such thing.

Okay, now I'm going to call you a liar.

From post #9

If I caught someone in my home with a concealed weapon, they'd be explaining to the lord that it was legal.

 

[Sistema1927]

Any friend of mine is perfectly welcome to carry concealed weapon into my home. Not that they have me to fear, but:

1) It would be nice to have someone else armed and ready to assist if we were to experience a home invasion, and
2) I would never expect my friend to leave his self defence in his car, and
3) I would never want my friend to travel to of from my home in a defenseless state.

My friends feel the same way, that is why they are my friends.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

If I were the host and a guest that I didn't know real well was packing I would assume he was going to do me harm. After proning him out and disarming him he would be assisted off the property. While doing so I would more than likely call the sheriff and make a report as well. To be invited to my house for a formal gathering and pack while doing so would set off some alarms with me! Great if we have history and knowledge of one anothers skills, but a person who I don't really know just shows up with a concealed gun... We have trouble!
lawdogso

I'm assuming that you mean you would draw on that person? If so, you'd not be within your rights, and if that person managed to draw and kill you with his CCW, he'd walk Scott free, because you are not within your legal rights to draw on people peaceably minding their own business, let alone invited guests who have behaved peaceably. If, however, you did manage to disarm the CCW holder, and "prone" him, you'd be arrested for assault and battery. You are not permitted under the law to make the first hostile contact, or to even touch someone without their consent. You must first ask an invited guest to leave before you may engage in "self-help."

 

[kaferhaus]

Okay, now I'm going to call you a liar.

From post #9

If I caught someone in my home with a concealed weapon, they'd be explaining to the lord that it was legal.
/QUOTE]

Show me the quote about it coming up in friendly conversation,,, then you can call me a liar.

It's not what I said

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I and the people I choose to associate with do not carry loaded guns into other folks houses.

It's just not a polite thing to do.

Opinion only ... not fact.

As an opinion, you are certainly entitled to hold it. I am equally entitled to hold an opposing opinion, and insulting me because I disagree with you isn't particularly "polite." (Nor is it in accordance with the High Road way of expressing differences of opinion.)

 

[Zundfolge]

Show me the quote about it coming up in friendly conversation,,, then you can call me a liar.

Okay, here's your post:

I don't give a damn if your CCW laws say it's okay or not... it's absolutely a stupid idea to carry a firearm into someone's home without first obtaining their permission..

If I caught someone in my home with a concealed weapon, they'd be explaining to the lord that it was legal.

Guaranteed there's no jury in the land that'd convict me for shooting your ass for bringing a loaded concealed weapon to a "dinner party" at my home.... and the fact that you did this without my knowledge will be enough for me to assume you intended to harm someone in my home.

At any dinner party at my home about all there is going on is eating and "friendly conversation" ... dunno what kind of shindigs you throw (but apparently you invite people you don't trust armed, so maybe your dinner parties are dangerous affairs).

I'll let people make up their own minds about your honesty or lack thereof.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Okay, now I'm going to call you a liar.

From post #9


Show me the quote about it coming up in friendly conversation,,, then you can call me a liar.

It's not what I said

Your logic is faulty. "Catching," in this context, refers to becoming aware. Becoming aware is a large category. You made no exceptions to it. One among many ways to become aware of something about someone is for them to mention that thing to you. This is inclusive within the concept of becoming aware. You used the term "catching" to imply that the thing you may become aware of was somehow morally tainted. This is a mere private value judgment (which you seem to share with few), and does not distinguish it from the category of becoming aware. Since mentioning something in conversation is a way for you to become aware, you have therefore asserted that you would in fact shoot someone for mentioning to you that he was carrying a CCW. You must be logically consistent.