CCW handgun sales for 2013 by caliber

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I was at the LGS/indoor range this morning and listening to another patron saying “well you know .45 ACP guns probably outsell the other calibers” and the CCW teacher chimed in and said flat out that almost half of the new Illinois concealed carry applicants coming to him for training were buying or shooting/owning .380 caliber guns and many who showed up with guns were trading/buying new guns in smaller sizes and more manageable calibers as they practiced to pass proficiency tests and began contemplating actually carrying guns.

The store owner said that .380 sales were “extremely brisk in 2013” and possible the top seller but we could not find an official statistic in a Google search. Apparently there is much disagreement as to what calibers are “the hottest/best sellers” in the US for CCW right now with many saying 9mm hands down and others saying .40 or .45 or .380 etc.

Can anyone point to an “official” or credible statistic that shows which calibers are presently selling in what order of magnitude in the US? Opinions aside please – Is there anything in Guns and Ammo or maybe an NRA publication that anyone has seen that can clarify this question and give accurate/credible sales of concealed carry handguns by number of total sales arranged by caliber? What is the "hottest" caliber/gun in terms of 2013 overall sales specifically for concealed carry?

Thanks in advance!

VooDoo
 
The 2012 AFMER data is due out this month. 2013 is due out next January.

www.atf.gov/statistics/index.html

"ATF compiles the submitted data and releases it here each January, with a one year delay to comply with the Trade Secrets Act. For example, data released in January 2010 was for calendar year 2008."
 
I don't believe that a data base exclusive to CCW carry choices exists.

Yeah, I agree but any data that can give me/us a yardstick for comparison is better than opinions or completely biased number based on preferences and perspective. I'm looking for round numbers or a basic comparison of sales by caliber to get a handle on this concept. There seems to be a lot of opinions as to what people are buying (by caliber) but we are interested in ascertaining information that may say something like "163,000 9mm handguns were sold as compared to 100,00 .45 ACP and 80,000 .380 ACP etc." kind of data.

VooDoo
 
keep in mind too that its manufacturing data. not sales, etc.


My anecdotal evidence is 99% of the time I walk into an LGS someone is buying a LCP. Its also been Buds #2 seller behind Mosins for the last few years.
 
The 2012 AFMER data is due out this month. 2013 is due out next January.

www.atf.gov/statistics/index.html

John, I can only find data on total handguns manufactured or recovered if stolen, etc. from that link - am I missing some more relevant stats in that?

Yes, my anecdotal and personal experience here locally (and the opinion of the LGS owner and counter Dudes and the CCW instructors) is that right now .380 sales are basically dwarfing almost everything else. But this might be a local phenomenon or the truth skewed via perspective and not the "big picture" which is what I'm after.

I have to be honest - I'm under the impression that what internet handgun aficionados and Gun Board Gurus currently feel is representative of the pulse of gun buyers in the US for CCW is way, way off base. I'm trying to get to the real story about what general, average, everyday folks interested in buying a gun for self defense are actually buying and in what quantities but I'm not sure data to come to that conclusion is available or accurate.

VooDoo
 
I have to be honest - I'm under the impression that what internet handgun aficionados and Gun Board Gurus currently feel is representative of the pulse of gun buyers in the US for CCW is way, way off base.

I agree, and in many ways and contexts.

So far as .380 pistols are concerned, take note of the number of manufacturers that are introducing new models, or revising older ones, that are aimed at the CCW and personal protection market.

Manufacturers go where the market is going, for the obvious reason that's where the money is.

As a side note: Taurus recently introduced a line of small, short-cylinder revolvers chambered for several cartridges running from .380 ACP (with moon clips) to .44 Special. Now in their 2014 catalog only the .380 remains.
 
I agree with Old Fuff on this. Look at the complaints folks have raised about the Glock 42. "It should have been a 9mm...." type comments.

Many of the folks I trained for shooting or go out with me don't want to shoot a 9mm. They are perfectly happy with a 380 or 38 special.

Most gun forum folks stuck up their noses at the 380/38 Special.
 
I'm pleased with the solidarity and that others are of the opinion that maybe the consensus of Gun Board guys and handgun aficionados in general may be skewed from the buying habits and gun preferences of the general public.

I'm asking you guys to help me find credible sales statistics to either prove, one way or the other, what the general sales and carry trends really are. I love opinions and speculation and brain storming but I really would like to see some credible stats that reinforce or dispel my opinions and give me proper perspective.

There are a lot of friends and family living vicariously thru my handgun and CCW carry pistol research and asking me for advice and wanting to shoot the guns my Wife and I have purchased and selected towards that end. I don't wanna mislead people or influence them one way or the other...many family and friends see my choices/my Wifes choices and opinion as representative of what is right and what they should do...of what others should do and what mind sets we should be adopting. I owe it to them to get more information and facts.

VooDoo
 
You might check and see if the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) might have to offer, as they are the primary firearms industry lobbyists.

Understand that individual manufacturers don't make it a practice to put out detailed information about their sales because it might prove to be helpful to competitors who are making market studies.
 
That's a noble calling, VooDoo. It's nice to see someone searching for actual verifiable hard facts, as opposed to applying that label to their own opinions. Good luck, and let us know when you find it.
 
Understand that individual manufacturers don't make it a practice to put out detailed information about their sales because it might prove to be helpful to competitors who are making market studies.

I didn't think of that but it explains why I and several others looking for facts on sales by caliber in CCW sized guns are finding nothing really...usually I'm pretty good at finding stuff like this.

I'm starting to feel frustrated a bit. I think opinion and hype is the best we can do at this time. I'm gonnatry and get my LGS buddy to maybe ask around and get an idea...stopped at the local Scheels today and a couple of salesmen told me they didn't know what was the top selling gun or caliber but they did say the used gun case was getting full of 9mm and .45 and the Ruger LCP/LC380, The Sig 238 and other .380 pistols were hard to keep in stock and were selling surprisingly hot. Lots of newbie CCW candidates seem to be buying what a friend or The 'Net told them was the hot ticket and are finding the guns a little hard to conceal or a little hard on the hand when shot and found to be inaccurate past the first shot due to muzzle flip.

This last from the local NRA CCW instructor...people bring guns to class to work on their proficiency test and end up buying another gun to finish the class when they find out they are getting beat up or not "feeling the love" of larger caliber pistols or tiny .380s. He tells students/Illinois CCW candidates that if they are proficient and know their skill level to bring 200 - 250 rounds with them. Those with less confidence are being told to bring 300 -500 rounds...I can imagine that a newbie trying to get familiar and pass the proficiency by getting more confident/accurate is gonna be pretty sore if they purchased an XD-S .45 as the "Ultimate Concealed Manstopper" and tried to put 300 rounds down range in an 8 hour class. :what:

VooDoo
 
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Not really. It will only tell you what guys who post on forums carry. Not exactly representative of the general public. Not at all.
 
I looked at the poll, and noted what the site was.

What it is really indicating is what serious "really into it" people are buying and carrying, not the average newby who is worried, but has little or no experience and doesn't plan to burn up the ammunition that's necessary to change the circumstances.

Another indicator is the continued strong sale of .25 ACP, .32 ACP and .380 ammunition, although very few new guns have been produced in recent years that were chambered for the first two. Also the buyers are more likely to take it home and store it away rather then shoot it up.

The average (rather them more serious) buyers simply want to have an easy to shoot and carry if necessary handgun that will give them a more secure feeling that they are safe. In an earlier time that need was filled with .32 and .38 top-break pocket revolvers, and later by Colt’s .25, .32 and .380 pocket model pistols. I have a feeling that if one of the larger manufacturers offered a mid-size pistol in .32 ACP it might outsell the same one in .380 – while Internet experts sat in the corner and pouted in total outrage. :D
 
Even if we knew exactly how many of which calibers were purchased by people who hold a CCW permit (by various names) or live in a state where no such document is required, we could not know this answer. All our evidence will be anecdotal.

Where on the forms for purchasing a firearm is the question, "For what purpose are you purchasing this firearm?" or anything like that? It doesn't exist on the federal, Virginia or Kentucky form.

And even if there were such a question, what assurance would exist that the respondent's answer is truthful or accurate?

As far as polls go, who can vouch for their veracity? There must always be a variance factor to account for respondents who either don't know, don't want to be truthful, or simply err in their response. Of course, even that variance factor cannot be 100% accurate.

So if you want to know the answer, just stick with anecdotal evidence. It'll be accurate enough for all but purely academic studies, especially when the real answer is, "Nobody need care which is most commonly carried as long as more and more people carry something."
 
John, Thank You! More information for the pot.... :)

Old Fuff's post echos what I feel to a very high degree - there are a lot of "polls" available via The 'Net and the various gun boards etc. but I question the accuracy when we are trying to ascertain what "Joe and Jane America" and your average CCW (and upcoming CCW possibles) are actually carrying, buying, and hopefully training with. I moderate a Flight sim forum and have moderated several knife, martial arts, and flight sim forums over the last few years and have learned a lot about discussion boards, the people who frequent them, who posts, etc. One thing I can tell you that seems ubiquitous on every board, on any topic, is that 90%+ of the people who read and wander in/out will *never* post a lick. They may agree or disagree and they may gain perspective or reject it but literally the vastest majority of people who use discussion forums never post. Those who do are not "average" people in any stretch of the imagination....A poll of flight sim aficionados will get results from people who are passionate and involved to the "Nth" degree. They are into flight sim so deep that they have a perspective that is completely different than folks who do it as professional training, a game, mental discipline, or as a passing, peripheral fancy.

I think polls from a gun board about what is the best holster, best CCW caliber for an inexperienced 120 lb. 56 year old woman, or whatever is skewed/fatally flawed to some degree. I could be wrong - some of...maybe even most of the data and opinion may be applicable. But I do not feel it is likely to be representative of the average person involved.

Amongst the people I am regularly in contact with, train with, shoot with, work with, I have perhaps 20 or so people who have concealed carry permits. Less than half of them carry regularly and half of the ones who don't carry regularly have *never* carried and some of them have only fired the gun they have for personal protection 1 time. :what:

We have a small support group formed here. A group of people who want to protect themselves and carry concealed but they want to be able to hit what they shoot at, be proficient and accurate, and skilled as they can be. They want the right equipment *for them* and many in the group are finding that their internet research has led them in completely the wrong direction. They cannot handle the guns they have purchased at the range - they cannot safely draw from the holsters they have been told are "The Bomb" and when they go to the range and seek instruction to solve these issues they find that they are looking at a life altering commitment to make that Glock 19, 1911 platform .45, or even that Ruger LCP/LCR work for them in a time of SD or crisis. They are finding their existing skills and mindset completely inadequate. The equipment their Wife has decided to carry to make them feel safer while out and about or defending the home? When they actually start training/shooting and discussing it with their neighbors and friends their comfort level is waning as they realize they have the gun platforms and equipment that is touted as "The Bomb" and cannot comfortably carry/hide it nor hit the broadside of a barn with it. And practicing with it beats them up with recoil and self doubt. They are not finding that they have learned anything useful or applicable from Internet Experts and SD Aficionados, polls, statistics about what equipment will actually work for them. They have been sold or influenced to buy things that will never work for them unless they devote their lives to becoming "gunfighters" and immersing themselves into the culture of shooting sports etc.

They end up shooting my guns and guns I recommend at the range and end up part of the group we are forming. They are learning that we need to train and seek elsewhere for good, useful information for "average" folks who want to carry concealed and that Gun Boards and the like seem to be populated by opinions from aficionados and not average folks who understand their perspective and needs and desires/ability. I have a bunch of guns to loan to people and let them try at the range. Guns that my Wife and I have purchased as a result of an entire year of buying, shooting, and evaluating what works for each of us in a SD role.

My choice and go to guns are 9mm high cap polymer pistols - a Beretta Px4 sc and my Glock 26. We have .45...Colt Officers ACP, Revolvers like the LCR and larger revolvers and the range has anything you might imagine. My most asked for and coveted guns I have in my possession?

My Colt 1903's in .32 acp. I think gun makers releasing new .380 and even .22 or (Heaven forbid...) a pocket sized pistol in .22 and .32 acp are going to sell guns to tens of thousands of "Average Joe and Jane America" people here in the next 10 years. Lots of folks are gonna carry and a lot of them are gonna be casual, everyday people. They want something else than what the Gun Board folks and experts tell them is what they need. Average folks are looking for something else...something that Gun Board and SD Experts maybe are missing and not looking for/at. I feel and am of the opinion that if we stop dismissing things like the lowly .22, .32, and .380 and develop guns and ammunition (by making a demand for these guns and calibers by buying and using them) we can improve the situation for average folks...who are not, by and large, going to alter their lives and become Gun Aficionados or Gun Fighters.

I think.

VooDoo
 
Of the handguns I transfer each year, I can tell you that 9mm is by faaaaaaar the most popular caliber, followed by .40, .380, .45acp, .22LR, .38, .357......in that order. (The gap between .380 and .45 is substantial)

Almost all of the .380's are micro sized (LCP, P380, P3at,etc), with about one in seven being a large .380 like a Sig 238.

Very few of the .45acp are what I think of as small pistols. The overwhelming majority are Commander size or Government Model size. I can count the number of Officer size 1911's I've transferred in the last five years on one hand. Springfield XDs in .45 are far more popular than Officer sized 1911's.
 
Not exactly an answer to your question...

But relatively recently (maybe the last 18 months), a Shooting Times issue had an article on the most popular calibers for both factory ammunition and reloaders (I think it measured die sales). Of course, this did not pertain to CCW specifically, but you might have a look.
 
I'm an Illinois CCW Instructor and I spoke to a man today who has weakness in his left hand, he had an LCP and wanted to know if he had to qualify with both hands (you don't).

I have talked to a lot of students who don't have a firearm yet, and don't know a lot about firearms. I teach NRA BP for the first 8 hours of the 16 required Illinois hours.

I haven't had any students yet who had 40 S&W.

For me personally I look at a Bersa Thunder 380 and think "why would I lug that around when I can get a Rohrbaugh R9 or a Kahr PM9 that is smaller. lighter and shoots a more effective round. But snappy compact nines aren't for everyone, and what I think isn't so snappy may be too snappy for another person. There are some women shooters who love the Bersa Thunder 380. And I'm personally finding that elderly people or people with arthritis seem to have a likelihood of owning a 380.

There are a lot more 380s out there than we might think.
 
Excellent information - not really smoking guns but more anecdotal evidence already alluded to being possibly the best we can find. I have to agree we probably will not come to any conclusions but I think we are at least stumbling onto some evidence that many people are possibly not carrying the biggest, most powerful handgun and that possibly there is some room for folks wanting something less than optimal and perhaps more manageable and convenient.

Just came from the LGS where they have an indoor range, Illinois CCW instructors, sales and shooting classes/instruction. In talking to Illinois CCW students (on a break) and the guys at the range there are a lot of folks here who are seriously contemplating what they are gonna use to take their proficiency tests and what they are gonna carry/practice with and with the exception of the seasoned, skilled shooters many of them are looking at scaling down instead of scaling up in terms of caliber/handgun size.

I'm trying to get a feel for how many applicants for CCW here are "accomplished" handgunners and how many are basically inexperienced or novice and I'm getting the impression that it's almost 50/50...that maybe as many as half the folks wanting to carry right now are looking for answers and have not gained enough proficiency to ultimately make a personal choice (permanent choice) of carry guns and associated calibers.

C0untZer0, what's yer perspective? Are most of them really accomplished shooters or are many of them looking for a lot of guidance and searching for what's gonna work for them?

VooDoo
 
I have read more than once that S&W's 642 is their most popular model, and has been for 5+ years. I believe I have read that S&W sells more 642s than everything else they sell...put together.

Don't quote me on the last part, but if it were true, you could take S&W's annual sales, divide by two, and be assured that at least that number were 642s. And I'm betting that would yield a six-digit number that begins with a 2 or a 3.

As far as other manufacturers...not sure I can help there. But I would bet that .380, 9mm, .38Spl would be 1/2/3 (although not necessarily in that order).
 
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