CCW holder in trouble at Pennsylvania College

[Whatsit]

Bravo to the college security and city police! Too bad about the CCW permit though

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnews/2007/06/194977-man_with_guns_arrested_at_hacc.html

Man with guns arrested at HACC
Posted by Tom Bowman/The Patriot-News June 20, 2007 12:57PM
Categories: Crime, Dauphin County, Education, Midstate
A man armed with a 9mm pistol who police said talked about Virginia Tech was arrested yesterday inside Cooper Student Center at Harrisburg Area Community College.

The man approached a student and said he had guns in his car, Harrisburg Police Chief Charles Kellar said.

"It would be worse than Virginia Tech if someone broke into my car. I have guns in the car," said First Assistant District Attorney Fran Chardo quoting the man.

John Sakkas of Lemoyne says that he heard about a man with a gun at Cooper Student Center on the HACC campus during his 8:00 a.m. speech class today.


Patriot-News photo, Sean Simmers
The student told an armed HACC security guard that the man had a pistol, and the guards called Harrisburg police then watched him until police arrived, said HACC spokeswoman Tracy Mendoza.

City police searched the man, found the 9mm loaded handgun in his backpack, then took him to the police station, Mendoza said.

Kellar said the man had a concealed weapons permit and was legally allowed to carry a pistol. Police searched his car and found a second pistol there and another firearm in his home.

Police talked with Chardo about charging the man. Chardo said what the man said would not qualify as a terroristic threat because there has to be an intent to terrorize another person.

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

Chardo said the law says a person cannot possess a firearm if they have been adjudicated incompetent or involuntarily committed for inpatient mental health care.

A source close to the police said the man lives in the 3700 block of Green Street, Susquehanna Twp. The Patriot-News is withholding the man's name because he has not been charged with any offense.

Neither HACC nor Harrisburg police released any information on the incident yesterday.

After the man was arrested, chief HACC spokesman Pat Early sent out an e-mail to the college staff explaining the incident. Early said he did not tell the students or the public about the incident.

"It was something that was handled quickly, quietly. There wasn't anything to tell," Early said. "Our (security) officers approached the man when the Harrisburg police arrived. They determined indeed he was carrying a weapon. He was taken into custody and removed from the campus."

 

[Correia]

Your title is misleading. There was no shooting averted.

 

[Whatsit]

Feel free to change it as you see appropriate, then. (I don't know how to or I would)

 

[jlbraun]

Wait a sec here. This isn't a "school shooting averted", this is "guy gets railroaded because of something he said". Mods, suggest a title change. Whatsit, you can change the title by hitting "edit", then "go advanced".

He only indirectly referenced VT:

"It would be worse than Virginia Tech if someone broke into my car. I have guns in the car,"

He didn't threaten anyone:

Police talked with Chardo about charging the man. Chardo said what the man said would not qualify as a terroristic threat because there has to be an intent to terrorize another person.

They're not even charging him:

The Patriot-News is withholding the man's name because he has not been charged with any offense.

 

[tenbase]

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

well doesn't that just give you the warm fuzzies.

 

[budney]

Yup, if the newspaper story is accurate, he was railroaded. He made a foolish remark, and lost his CCW over it.

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

This is the scariest bit. I never knew that the police were authorized to make mental health diagnoses and commit someone. Apparently the involuntary commitment was improper, however. According to a FAQ on section 302,

Section 302 is the part of the Act relating to treatment without consent for observed behavior constituting a clear and present danger to the individual and/or others. The behavior must have occurred in the past 30 days. Under Section 302(a) any responsible party can petition for an involuntary evaluation by stating that an individual may be severely mentally disabled.

The CCW in this case clearly did not pose a clear and present danger to anyone. He wasn't even charged with threatening.

--Len.

 

[Lashlarue]

For some reason I think there is a whole lot more to this story than what has been reported.

 

[Leatherneck]

So these bullies masquerading as LEOs can trample his constitutional rights under the US Constitution as well as that of PA without ever even consulting a court or doctor? ***?

TC

 

[NeoSpud]

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

Holy $%#*!!!
In no way did his statement imply that he would do a VT-style massacre... he just said that an individual with a Cho mindset *could* if that person were to break into his car... and yet he lost his RKBA?!?

That is terrifying! My stomach just dropped to my shoes... I had no idea anyone could do that so quickly without oversight.

 

[DKSuddeth]

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

Chardo said the law says a person cannot possess a firearm if they have been adjudicated incompetent or involuntarily committed for inpatient mental health care.

This should completely and totally scare the living crap out of each and every one of us.

 

[JLStorm]

and all of a sudden I feel as if I am living in Nazi Germany. He did nothing more than express his concern that HE had guns in HIS car. Thats like me saying that I carry a gun on my person because I leaving them in the car scares me, then being involuntarily committed to a mental institution. I would like to know if there is more to this story, otherwise I would like to see the police cheif and/or judge who signed off on this removed from office and made an example of.

 

[Noxx]

Anyone have a link to this from a more credible news source? Something isn't kosher here.

edit: (to clarify, I don't see cause for a search warrant here... the "police" can not have you commited, they can have you placed under observation, then you're off to court with the results... the wording of the article so closely mimics fears voiced about new legislation... arrested parties name not given even though it's a matter of public record, etc.)

 

[Whatsit]

While I understand everyone's comments, something tells me there is more to this story. I'll keep an ear to the ground and pass it on as it comes.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily.

Ah, now I see I've been wrong all along in defending the process of having one's 2A rights revoked. I was under the impression that it was an adversarial procedure, but it seems, by this article, that any DA can ASK the SHERIFF to commit ANYONE, and ppfffttt that person's rights are gone.

But I do have one slight correction....

He is now ineligible to legally possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily.

 

[ED21]

"Because of the statement I was greatly concerned about this fellow," Chardo said. "I contacted the sheriff and had his license to carry a firearm revoked. And I asked police to commit him under Section 302 of the mental health procedures act and that was done. He is now ineligible to possess firearms because he was committed involuntarily."

Chardo said the law says a person cannot possess a firearm if they have been adjudicated incompetent or involuntarily committed for inpatient mental health care.

On a whim she had his right to own firearms eliminated with no proof or charges. Just a provision in the law which we should all fear.

 

[Whatsit]

Another source for you all:

http://www.abc27.com/news/stories/0607/432902.html

Harrisburg, Dauphin County -

A woman had a conversation with a man about recent car break-in's on HACC's campus about a week ago. The man told her nobody better break into his car because he had a gun and ammo in there and it would be worse than Virginia Tech. The woman saw the man on HACC's campus Tuesday and told another woman, who then reported it to security.




HACC security officers found the man at the Cooper Student Union working on a laptop around 11:30 a.m. He is not a student at the school. Security officials watched the man and called Harrisburg police. When police officers arrived, they found the man with a loaded 9 mm handgun in his computer bag. Police say he has a permit to carry. They also found a ski mask and black gloves. When police searched his car, they found another loaded 9 millimeter handgun with a mask and a second pair of black gloves.

The man was taken to a mental hospital for an evaluation. According to police, the district attorney said the man will not be charged with making terroristic threats. HACC sent out a statement to faculty Tuesday alerting them to the situation. Guns are not allowed on HACC's campus, even if the owner has a permit.

 

[Noxx]

That sounds way more legit. Also sounds a lot more like a nutjob.

 

[Whatsit]

I imagine it was the skimask and gloves that brought on the 302. I still think there are details that we don't have.

 

[Frandy]

Here's another example of a story where some of you are ready to claim that our rights are being trampled before you even have the facts! And we still aren't sure of all the facts. If this guy did have the ski masks and gloves (yeah, yeah, nothing wrong with having a mask and gloves ), if it is not permissable to possess on those school grounds (doesn't matter if you disagree with this), if he wasn't a student, and if he did make that moronic comment to someone, then this is most likely far more than an innocent citizen with a carry permit having his rights trampled.

And, if he is "innocent," what he did and said is still stupid, given the context and circumstances.
What person who carries tells a stranger that he has firearms and ammunition in the trunk?

 

[JLStorm]

I imagine it was the skimask and gloves that brought on the 302. I still think there are details that we don't have.

I sure as hell hope so!

 

[Autolycus]

It is scary that they can ask to have him admitted and take away his right to bear arms. Even the fact he had a mask and black gloves does not make him a criminal. What if it was a paintball mask or a fencing mask? What about a ski mask? Does owning a ski mask or gloves make one a criminal?

Remember that eventually allowing these miscarriages of justice and giving up freedom because something looks a little suspicious will eventually cost us our rights. I am sorry but we do not have enough information. So far it sounds like he was the victim of someone who enjoys abusing their power.

Keep in mind that he did not break the law. The state of Pennsylvania allows guns on campuses. He could not be charged with breaking the law so they found a loophole and decided he is crazy.

We will need more information in the end because right now it sounds like he was railroaded by the system.

 

[JColdIron]

Ski Mask and gloves! This is Pennsylvania we are talking about. Everyone should have them in there car in case of break down in the winter. Along with a blankie and shovel

Geeeze. That tactic of involo commitment caught on fast. THAT is why we all should be concerned about the NRA's recent "compromise"

 

[JohnBT]

"Under Section 302(a) any responsible party can petition for an involuntary evaluation "

He had an evaluation, that's what you petition for, an evaluation. In most states it's for up to 48 or 72 hours the last time I looked.

The report does give the outcome of the hearing. The hearing is where the adjudication takes place. Possible outcomes include involuntarily committment, voluntary committment, or being released.

That report is soooo bad. I hope First Assistant District Attorney Fran Chardo was misquoted because she's not making much sense the way it's printed.

John

 

[Titan6]

Hmmm... Even the second story leaves a lot to ponder. Not really enough to go on here but I suppose when we live in a society where fear is what decides how things should be this is not to be unexpected. I suppose we will be seeing a lot more of this for a while.

 

[Glockman17366]

Well, I see a major lawsuit against the college, the police and ADA Chardo over this one. I expect this man will get his permit back too.

I read about this in the local news (I'm about 25 miles south of Harrisburg) but I didn't read about his permit. But I don't think we know the full story yet. I don't think he's a nutjob, but may have not been as discreet as he should have been (bragging, not threatening). Annd, we don't know if the person he talked to was a stranger or a casual acquaintance.

Now, since the Senate passed that bill concerning mental adjudication, if the law enforcement starts to abuse it (as it sounds like in this case), that bill will not make it through the House.