Check my thinking on carry options

[Quoheleth]

I'm getting closer to my Texas CHL arriving in the mail. I've been tossing around ideas in my head for several months on options for carry. While I have several large frame autos (full-size 1911, full-size M&P9) and the 3" SP101 revolver, I'm looking for something a little bit smaller for daily wear.

The LCP & P3AT are nice, sleek, sneaky pocket guns. Can't beat 'em for concealability, but they feel too small to me - like they will squirt out of my hands like a bar of soap. Plus, I haven't seen .380 ammo in so long, I am starting to think it's like the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny - only existing in people's minds. For now, the .380 pocket gun is out.

I like the Kel Tec PF9, a single-stack 9mm. I've held it and it's big brother, the P-11, and there is a noticable difference between them. The PF9 is more discreet and pocketable. It's noticable something is in the pocket, but it's not obvious it's a gun. It's 9mm cartridge is decent. The problem here, also, is ammo availability. I have a couple hundred rounds of 115 gr FMJ in my closet, and I've seen a little FMJ here and there around town but haven't seen any HPs or personal defense stuff in a while. If I were to carry a 9 at this point, all I have is FMJ ammo. Loading a 9mm with ball ammo is asking for through & through penetration, IMHO - probably not the best choice. The PF9 is still an option, but with ammo availability a problem...I wonder if there is something else that might be better for now.

Which brings me to option #3, a compact 1911 in .45ACP. It's definitely a step up in the size category from either the PF9 or the P11, so pocket carry is out. But, with it's smaller size (3.5" barrel, shorter grip - 6 round mag), it's a bit easier to IWB carry than it's full-size brother. Plus, if I can't find any hollow point ammo, I have in my closet several hundred rounds of 230grain ball. While HPs are preferable, a big, slow and heavy .45 FMJ offers more punch than the 9mm 115 FMJ.

As of right now, I'm starting to lean heavily on that Option #3, the compact 1911. Before I jump the shark completely, check my thinking. Am I making sense? Knowing ammo availability is a problem at this point, and not knowing when/if the problem will resolve any time in the future, is my thought - chosing a weapon based on ammo availability and the function of the available ammo - logical? Or am I so over-analyzing this thing that if I'm not careful, I'm going to be talking myself into a .45 Super?

Q

 

[searcher451]

Carry the gun in the most powerful caliber that best fits your hand and eye and that you can readily and easily conceal on your person at any given moment. To figure out which gun is right for you is a learning experience: sometimes through trial and (we would hope not too much) error, sometimes through hard-earned and meticulous range work, sometimes through the casual WallyWorld Walk, sometimes through combinations of all of the above.
Far be it from any of us to tell you what's best for you, given your own individuality and preferences and body shape, etc.

As Smokey the Bear once said, "Only you can prevent forest fires."

 

[markpcola]

I would try to get used to the P3AT in a smart carry. Try a Houge? or rubber grip on it and don't think of it as a range gun! I've had good luck "forgetting" that I'm carrying with this gun, and after all, you only need to find one box of ammo.

 

[moooose102]

I've had good luck "forgetting" that I'm carrying with this gun, and after all, you only need to find one box of ammo.

i am sorry, but i have to disagree with your statement markpcola. i have never forgotten i am carrying. i can't even phatom the idea. and i am sorry, but one box of ammo? how are you supposed to get any good at shooting with one box of ammo? let alone break in the gun so it is reliable?! imo, a minimum amount would be 300 rounds. both of my 380's needed a couple of hundred rounds to be reliable (no ftf, fte's). and a gun that quits on you in a firefight is certain death! anyway, back to the post. ammo avalability is probably going to be an issue for a while, so i dont think you are out of line thinking the way you do. what good is a gun if you can not shoot it? besides, there are situations where pocket carry is not all it is cracked up to be. try retreiving something from your pocket when you are buckled into your car seat. i have 2) 380's and almost always carry one of them. but, if i can, i carry my 45, that makes me feel much more comfortable. there is just something about knowing you can usually stop trouble with one shot, instead of 2-3-or 4!

 

[PT1911]

why not look at the Kahrs... available in 9, .40 and .45? cheaper than a 1911 (though definitely not my definition of cheap) and nearly as concealable as the PF9 and P11

 

[Quoheleth]

The Kahrs I've seen on websites are all above my price range.

KelTecs are - even on the high side - under $350, and I found a local shop that sells them in the $250 range, when they can get 'em.

Likewise, the Rock Island Compact (what I'm looking at) runs <$400 on GunBroker.

If I'm careful, I might be able to even squeeze BOTH of these little jewels into my budget in the next couple months.

Q

 

[jocko]

take a few more

months and just put back some bucks each month and buy you a good gun. Good guns normally cost more, Good guns normally work better, longer and are more trustworth. Not taking anything away from the $350 andunder guns either but there normally is a reaosn why they are lower price.

If you buy a good name braned gun, normaly you willget your moneys worth to and not be on the look out again for something better.

My 2cents worth.

 

[Quoheleth]

What I would love to find is the Sig 250 set up in its compact package. That pistol has the smoothest DA pull I've ever used. Unfortunately, it's also in the $650 range.

Q

 

[PT1911]

a 450.00 Kahr cw9 is too steep but you are looking at the possiblity of getting

Option #3, the compact 1911.

, not putting down the compact 1911's but good luck finding a quality one at a price less than that of a new Kahr CW series it has the same cartrige and round capacity and even slimmer and lighter than a compact 1911...

 

[sohcgt2]

Man up, I conceal a full size auto 16 hours a day. Choose your carry based on what you shoot well, then find a rig that makes it comfortable to carry.

 

[chris in va]

Have you looked at a Kahr PM9? Small, thin, reliable...smaller than my KelTec P11. And still 9mm.

 

[Zerodefect]

Nothing wrong with getting the Pf9 and saving up for another gun later.

Remember to get a good pocket holster to cover the trigger. I've had better luck with the mini pistols in a holster on my belt inside waist band. Pocket carry seems to print too much even with the holster it looks unnatural. Even with my p32. Weird huh?

The PM9 and P11 are both much easier to shoot under pressure than the p32 and p3at.

You can use fmj for defense. Its a bad idea though, especially 9mm.

 

[Rexster]

I used one or more SP101 snubbies as 24/7 guns for several years, and only relegated them to occasional CC and backup status when I started carrying one or two P229s most of the time, last year. I am in the same environment as you, Houston and the surrounding area. Since the "guests" arrived from NOLA, especially, I don't like carrying the little stuff. An SP101 is plenty small for me.

 

[nelson133]

I switch off between various carry guns, but my first carry gun was an SP101 I bought when Michigan went to shall carry. Still carry it sometimes and don't feel undergunned when I do. P3-AT is one of my bugs and it will shoot amazingly well, I just want something more potent for a primary carry gun. I also have an RIA compact and really like that one. I don't carry it, but if I needed to, I would have no worries in relying on it.
The Taurus Millennium Pro is also in your price range and I have one in .40 that is also in the carry mix. Accurate and small with ample ammo capacity, the .45 might be something to look at also. The only problems I had with mine were getting used to the 2 dot sights and remembering to keep the firing pin channel clean. It is exposed and will gunk up after a time.

 

[benderx4]

We've got a used Kahr PM-9 in our local Gander Mt for $499. Awesome gun and this one would be broken in. Most importantly, you've got 9mm protecting yourself and your loved ones.

I've yet to hear a sterling report of ANY 3" 1911-like 45 (or 9mm) that functions reliably all the time. Otherwise, I'd own a SA EMP right now.

Another possibility is my favorite, the HK P7. Small, compact, 9mm, thin, reliable, accurate, and safe. Not a pocket gun for sure, but VERY comfortable in a nice leather IWB. (VM2 in my case)

Good luck!

 

[bgeddes]

I have an LCP and a compact RIA 1911. Both are carried at times. The LCP, like you said, is a lot tougher to shoot well. The 1911, even with a 3" can be a challenge to conceal, but you'll never feel under gunned, or have trouble putting rounds on target. The gun I carry the most is a snub nosed .38sp. In the 5 shot configuration they are small enough to hide well, weigh less than a pound, and pack enough bang to do some damage. Mine shoots great and is a very natural pointing piece. I would tell you to take a serious look at a small wheel gun. Many options in your price range too.

 

[philbo]

Q,

The PF9 is a decent option, just make sure to get a recent model with all the bugs worked out. If you keep an eye on the used market you can get a good deal on a used one. (bought one last month on texasguntrader.com for $225) The biggest dislike I had about the PF9 was the trigger, although the PF9 was vastly better than the P11.

The Kahr CW9 is about the same size as the PF9 and weighs a couple of ounces more, but for that you get a longer barrel and a better trigger. A used model in like new condition shouldn't run over $400 max and can often be had for less. I've owned 2 of these and both were ultra reliable for me and the people who are now carrying them. If you can afford it, this is a better option than the Keltec or a starter 1911 with a 3" barrel. I was so impressed with the first CW I bought, I replaced it with a PM9 which beats everything else hands down in my opinion when it comes to a pocket pistol. If you haven't tried a Kahr, you should try it before you rule it out. They're worth every penny.

I have a Para Carry 3" 1911 in 45 as well. Reliable, accurate, easy to conceal IWB, but the extra weight of the 1911 officer size pistol cuts 2 ways. The extra weight aids in controlling the recoil, but the extra 10 to 15 ounces gets heavy real quick. Combine this with summer attire in Houston and you may discover as I did that it is difficult to carry concealed. The poly framed autos definitely have the advantage for concealed carry during Houston summers when a cover garment may look a little out of place.

I think you're letting the ammo thing figure too heavy right now.. Heck, I'll spot you a mag of self defense hollow points in any caliber if you really need it.

 

[Davionmaximus]

Sounds to me like you are over thinking. Carry the gun that is comfortable and capable of doing the job if it is ever called to do so. Comfortable is important or you will not carry it all the time.
I have found my full sized Ruger P345 is more comfortable to carry than my compact XD. But I tend to mix my carry styles from holsters to belly bands to a fanny pack.
I personally only use the best hollowpoints I can afford in my carry guns.

 

[AZ Desertrat]

Snub nose .38's make awful good carry weapons......

 

[Quoheleth]

Aw, heck. I'm overthinking it - you're right. Next thing you know, I'll be choosing guns based on the number of letters in the name or model! Yeesh...

And, while I'm on a budget, I'm not quite destitute Philbo. Unless an unhappy tax man cometh, that is, and as of now, I have no reason to suspect that. 'Preciate the offer.

Fact of the matter is, I want the Rock Island. Love 1911s. The previous Rock I had, I foolishly sold - it was a mixed blessing, though as the sale financed a SP101 which I also really love.

But, you're right - a 1911 is a lot of iron to pack in SE Texas in summer. I will probably be better served, functionally, by the PF9 or a smokin' hot deal on a gently used Kahr. The CW9 is taller than the PM9, right? What is it - about a finger width taller? I'll have to find someplace that sells 'em - check that: has them in stock to handle!

But I still want that compact 1911.
And a Smith Model 10.
And a Garand.
And a Smith 625.
And a Sig 250.
And...

Q

 

[philbo]

The CW is almost exactly the same size as the PF9, it is about a finger length longer in the mag and about an inch longer overall. Sent you a PM.

 

[shazaam42]

Good thread. I'm in Vermont, where cc is legal for everyone. I currently carry my xd9 pretty much everywhere, but since it's so bulky, I often have to leave it in my car. I'm looking for something in a 9mm that I can carry easily, but that is either DAO or has an external hammer so I can chamber a round and then decock it. I don't like carrying knowing that I would have to chamber a round (meaning I would have to have both hands free) to be able to use my sidearm.

I'm leaning toward the keltec pf9, which is DAO, but I'm not really excited about it. I liked the Walther PPS until I saw it was SA. Are there other options out there?

 

[MCgunner]

I've been pocketing a P11 for a dozen years. It is my number one carry. I don't care much for smart carry or thunderwear. I bought the thunderwear. It's hard to access unless you're on your feet and stiil, it's slow. I like walking along in a dark parking lot with my hand on the grip of the P11 in my pocket, discrete and plenty of gun if needed. It's accurate, reliable, and with the proper mags, holds 12+1 of 9x19+P.

Hey, IWB is NOT a real option in south Texas most of the year for me and I won't carry IWB anyway all day without pullin' the thing off. Pocket carry just works. I don't even notice it's there and it's always handy. It's also more discrete to disarm, too, when you have to go into a post office or federal building or something. That's sorta important to me since I ride a motorcycle a lot and don't have a car to hide in.

I could have spent a lot more money and gotten a much less effective firearm than the Kel Tec. It's good quality and backed for life by a good company.

 

[shazaam42]

Thanks, that's good info. I'm looking at the Kel Tec because I want to buy one for my wife as well, so I'd like something fairly inexpensive, since I'll be buying 2.

She's currently carrying a walther p22, which is a good small gun for her hand and easy to conceal, but c'mon, unless she has to protect herself from a rabid squirrel or something, what's a 22 going to do for her? She's also less than confident with it because of how often it misfires when we're plinking with it, and you want to be 100% sure of your carry piece... (FYI - Not a great gun, I wouldn't really recommend it, but that's a different thread entirely)