Chicago Gun Protests

[ChanceMcCall]

Remember the anti gun protests that closed the Dan Ryan and Michigan Avenue for a day? The Chicago police were ordered to do nothing. The Illinois State Police however took a dim view of the protest intended to clog the interstate leading to O'Hare Airport and arrested all the protesters before they could block traffic.

What you really might want to know is who was behind this protest:

Think Tio Hardiman. He led the other protests as head of CeaseFire. He didn't lead this one after his wife filed a complaint of spousal abuse with the police and promptly also filed for divorce. ( He has two prior arrests with two other wives on the same charges.) In 1999, his then-wife said he punched her and threw her to the ground, telling her, "When I get finished with you, nobody's gonna want you!"

Then there is his number two, Francisco “Smokey” Sanchez who also could not be at the third protest because he was just sentenced to 27 months. In explaining the short sentence, U.S. District Judge John Lee said prosecutors failed to prove Sanchez was a ranking member of the Gangster Two-Six Nation, even though some of Sanchez’s words and actions captured on undercover wiretaps were “extremely questionable.”

“Is it possible that Mr. Sanchez was a leader of the Two-Six? Yes, certainly,” Lee said. “But this court doesn’t deal in the realm of possibilities.”

Sanchez, 51, who spent 24 years in prison for the killing of a gang rival, was charged in 2017 with possession of a weapon by a felon after authorities raided his West Side home as part of a sprawling investigation into the Two-Six and found a .45-caliber pistol hidden in a false book on his bedside table.

In court Monday, Sanchez’s former CeaseFire boss, Dr. Gary Slutkin, testified Sanchez was a "gentle, humble and grateful man" who helped save hundreds of lives. Slutkin said he intends to rehire Sanchez when he is released but would suggest that he avoid working in the Two-Six gang's Little Village territory, where his actions could be "misconstrued."

Now for the good part:

CeaseFire is a group formerly funded by the State of Illinois (under Gov. Quinn- Gov. Rauner took away their funds) to the tune of $4.5 million per year with another $1 million from the City of Chicago in 2012. JB, if elected Governor has vowed to restore funds.

Only in Illinois.

 

[JONWILL]

What’s there to protest? Gun violence is down Only 365 have been killed in Chicago this year. Down 113 from the same time last year.

Can’t believe that they seem to be bragging that they only have 365 dead so far. But hey, still have a long way to New Year right?

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Remember the anti gun protests that closed the Dan Ryan and Michigan Avenue for a day? The Chicago police were ordered to do nothing. The Illinois State Police however took a dim view of the protest intended to clog the interstate leading to O'Hare Airport and arrested all the protesters before they could block traffic.

What you really might want to know is who was behind this protest:

Think Tio Hardiman. He led the other protests as head of CeaseFire. He didn't lead this one after his wife filed a complaint of spousal abuse with the police and promptly also filed for divorce. ( He has two prior arrests with two other wives on the same charges.) In 1999, his then-wife said he punched her and threw her to the ground, telling her, "When I get finished with you, nobody's gonna want you!"

Then there is his number two, Francisco “Smokey” Sanchez who also could not be at the third protest because he was just sentenced to 27 months. In explaining the short sentence, U.S. District Judge John Lee said prosecutors failed to prove Sanchez was a ranking member of the Gangster Two-Six Nation, even though some of Sanchez’s words and actions captured on undercover wiretaps were “extremely questionable.”

“Is it possible that Mr. Sanchez was a leader of the Two-Six? Yes, certainly,” Lee said. “But this court doesn’t deal in the realm of possibilities.”

Sanchez, 51, who spent 24 years in prison for the killing of a gang rival, was charged in 2017 with possession of a weapon by a felon after authorities raided his West Side home as part of a sprawling investigation into the Two-Six and found a .45-caliber pistol hidden in a false book on his bedside table.

In court Monday, Sanchez’s former CeaseFire boss, Dr. Gary Slutkin, testified Sanchez was a "gentle, humble and grateful man" who helped save hundreds of lives. Slutkin said he intends to rehire Sanchez when he is released but would suggest that he avoid working in the Two-Six gang's Little Village territory, where his actions could be "misconstrued."

Now for the good part:

CeaseFire is a group formerly funded by the State of Illinois (under Gov. Quinn- Gov. Rauner took away their funds) to the tune of $4.5 million per year with another $1 million from the City of Chicago in 2012. JB, if elected Governor has vowed to restore funds.

Only in Illinois.

What did we used to say? IBTL----But you're right---CeaseFire is ultimately nothing more than a state-funded career path for gang members who want a subsidized (and legitimized) revenue stream. Gang power is not dissipated but is enhanced and consolidated, and thug-life growth is encouraged. So-called "gun violence" may be quashed in the short term, but always rebounds as the over-all base of potential gang affiliates grows and different factions vie for revenue streams while all the while the illegitimate "business" activities of the gang remain.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Some things never change.
I've heard that Al Capone was "anti-gun", too.
It's hard to terrorize and dominate an armed populace.
Thus, the current Illinois gun laws.

 

[hdwhit]

Chance McCall wrote/asked:
Remember the anti gun protests that closed the Dan Ryan and Michigan Avenue for a day?

Yeah. I was caught in them.

The Chicago police were ordered to do nothing.

Under the circumstances, this was probably a wise move on the part of the Chicago PD.

The Illinois State Police however took a dim view of the protest intended to clog the interstate leading to O'Hare Airport and arrested all the protesters before they could block traffic.

I doubt they arrested "all" of the protestors.

What you really might want to know is who was behind this protest:

Not really.

Frankly, your post, which seems directed towards generating a race war, rather than generating unity amongst American citizens, seems out place.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I love Liberal logic. Chicago the gun control is really working. Here is a very informative website of a taste of reality. They have the same from Balitmore etc. Check out the daily, monthy, yearly stats. Isn't if ironic that CNN does not report these statistics. Why?

https://heyjackass.com/

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Yeah. I was caught in them.



Under the circumstances, this was probably a wise move on the part of the Chicago PD.



I doubt they arrested "all" of the protestors.



Not really.

Frankly, your post, which seems directed towards generating a race war, rather than generating unity amongst American citizens, seems out place.

Funny how people perceive things differently

I didn’t get that
Instead I got several things from OPs post

One the frustration with these protests
And two a need for us to discusss them as those behind them have motives that impact all of us.
Three getting trapped on a highway while an angry mob is out of control is a dangerous thing for a multitude of reasons.

I understand that this site avoids politics, but those playing puppet master know our weaknesses. They exploit our kindness and our patience. They’re smart people and they play the uninformed and the less intelligent for their gain and amusement.

If we don’t at least start addressing what’s going on we have no chance of “winning”. This weeks Supreme Court hearings showed that things ahead may become very ugly. I hope not, and hope a pro Constitution justice protects our rights but as we’ve seen an election can change things fast.

So not to get into the politics but we do need to address what’s going own. One for our safety and two for our long term protection of our rights.

Having almost been killed in a gun free zone because I follow the law even when I feel it’s unConstitutional, I am very much concerned and I’ve become very outspoken. One to eliminate such zones and to get discussion going on how we fight back.

In my state we have a very anti 2nd Senator running for re-election whose son has been arrested multiple times as part of ANTIFA. Due to a large influx of people in the Northen part of the state he’s probably going to be re-elected and he’s going to continue to work against us.

So I’m very frustrated as I don’t want us to become like Chicago or California.I’m also very frustrated with our side. I don’t support protests that block roads nor illegal behavior. So I really think we need to discuss how to counter protests like what OP posted about. Let’s find ways to use them to help us get support and to get people into office who are on our side.

I’ve alwys joked that the fastest way to get me against your cause is to block a road I’m on and make me sit while you demonstrate. I don’t care what your cause is, it’s bad PR.

So how do we use this as a positive and how do we get people who are not informed to come to our side?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Frankly, your post, which seems directed towards generating a race war, rather than generating unity amongst American citizens, seems out place.

How so? Not once does the OP mention the race of the people behind Ceasefire. He is highlighting their criminal and abusive backgrounds and the corruption of Illinois politics.

Want to see the killing in Chicago stop? End the "war on drugs." It's not working and we can never win it without Orwellian-scale totalitarian controls on society. We've been through all this before with Prohibition. This is no different.

People will always want to get high (demand). Other people will sell them what they want (supply). There will be always be competition between the suppliers (gang war). It's not rocket science.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

How so? Not once does the OP mention the race of the people behind Ceasefire. He is highlighting their criminal and abusive backgrounds and the corruption of Illinois politics.

Want to see the killing in Chicago stop? End the "war on drugs." It's not working and we can never win it without Orwellian-scale totalitarian controls on society. We've been through all this before with Prohibition. This is no different.

People will always want to get high (demand). Other people will sell them what they want (supply). There will be always be competition between the suppliers (gang war). It's not rocket science.

The same can be said if we outlaw guns.

That said I’ve been torn on what we do. On one side we can’t condone the use of drugs. Doing so encourages kids to experiment and look at them as not dangerous. And hence more users and addicts.

But as you rightly point out if we outlaw them we have the prohibition problem.

Dangerously the antis have been waging a campaign that any and all guns are bad. No tollerance even for finger guns is the norm and we’re getting kids that don’t understand the Constitution and history. To me it’s frightening. Worse these kids are easy targets for those who fund these protests.

 

[Labguy47]

I say give everyone there one of those single shot .45s from WW1 I think it was called the liberator, and let them shoot each other. Problem solved.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

Yeah. I was caught in them.



Under the circumstances, this was probably a wise move on the part of the Chicago PD.



I doubt they arrested "all" of the protestors.



Not really.

Frankly, your post, which seems directed towards generating a race war, rather than generating unity amongst American citizens, seems out place.

Gadzooks! Others have already addressed this so my only comment is that you might benefit from reading a book Black Rednecks and White Liberals. It might give you a greater insight into the real problems of racism and why we are where we are regarding race. As another respondent wrote, my content was not racist, but it was intended to point out the fact that there are some very dubious people making a living out of leading anti gun movements and are receiving taxpayer money to do it.

 

[sparkyv]

.
Frankly, your post, which seems directed towards generating a race war, rather than generating unity amongst American citizens, seems out place.

Not true.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

That said I’ve been torn on what we do. On one side we can’t condone the use of drugs. Doing so encourages kids to experiment and look at them as not dangerous. And hence more users and addicts.

Condone, no. Educate, yes- but we have to face reality as to what is effective and what is a waste of time and money. Money which could be much better spent helping those who want to get clean. If someone doesn't want to quit, nothing will deter them from getting their fix. Not scolding, not fear of losing their job, not jail, not even looming death.

We make weed expensive and tough to get, users switch to kratom or K2. We cut off the supply of cocaine, they start cooking meth. We shut down Oxy Pill Mills, they switch to Phentynol......

By legalizing most classes of drugs, the Govt. can regulate their purity and concentration, track usage, tax them and use the proceeds for treatment, and deter users from seeking even more dangerous homemade expedients.

We've done it with liquor and tobacco. Everyone knows they are dangerous. In a free society people will have to make life choices. All that society can do is give them the education to make the right choice, accept that many people won't, and be prepared to help them if they change their minds later.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

The same can be said if we outlaw guns.

That said I’ve been torn on what we do. On one side we can’t condone the use of drugs. Doing so encourages kids to experiment and look at them as not dangerous. And hence more users and addicts.

But as you rightly point out if we outlaw them we have the prohibition problem.

Dangerously the antis have been waging a campaign that any and all guns are bad. No tollerance even for finger guns is the norm and we’re getting kids that don’t understand the Constitution and history. To me it’s frightening. Worse these kids are easy targets for those who fund these protests.

The whole drug thing is off topic to this thread but there is a corollary regarding gun control. The prohibition of alcohol proved the point. When people want something and the government doesn't want you to have it and makes laws regulating it, the only real result is that you create a disrespect for the laws and a new criminal enterprise is created.

This is certainly true with drugs, and if the anti gunners "win", the same will be true with guns. True some people will lose their guns because they are not willing to risk breaking the law, just as some people do not do drugs because of the legal risks. The irony is that as our population demographics change, fewer gun owners are being created and more drug users are emerging. Drugs will become more legal while guns will become less legal.

 

[CapnMac]

By legalizing most classes of drugs, the Govt. can regulate their purity and concentration, track usage, tax them and use the proceeds for treatment, and deter users from seeking even more dangerous homemade expedients.

But, that really requires an "all capable" government--which does not exist. Even the places that have tried have not achieved that ideal.
Mostly because, with scores of years, generations of experience in delivering material at extremely low cost, there's not much incentive to just "fade away" when government moves in offering mediocre service of mediocre product at government-mandated prices.

To swerve this back to closer on topic, let's consider if the politics had been a bit different in 1933, and NFA had, in fact, banned all concealable guns. Well, there's not really a whit's difference, in manufacturing, a hand gun than a rifle. Any shop that could turn out a legal shotgun or a legal rifle could just as easily turn out hand weapons. Even in the presence of over-bearing government inspectors, it would be impossible to stop all manufacture (or for the shops to move "out of jurisdiction"). Remember, too, that federal licensing of dealers was three decades in the future.

People would still need handguns, for the variety of reasons to own them. It would be extremely difficult to prevent them from satisfying those needs. So, a market would exist. The vaster international supply would exist as well.

Let's imagine rolling forwards some number of decades. Government decides the cure is to "legalize" handguns. So, you can get a .22 revolver, a 32-20 revolver, and a .38spl all leaga, with your ID card and all, and with the taxes and prices set by the government, not the market, and with whatever waiting periods and rigamarole they decide. So, you could wait weeks to get the "legal" .38spl, or, you go to "the guy" and you give him cash and he hands you a .38suoper or a .455, or whatever floats your boat.

We, in fact, do not have to go far afield into mental imaginings. Consider if Chicago "legalized" handguns tomorrow. First off, there's no shop in Chicagoland to supply the product. By the time there is, there will be all sorts of regulations and government rice bowls to be filled first (it is, after all, Chicago). All of those "dealers" supplying the criminals in chicagoland are not going to evaporate. They are serving a paying community and using proven practice to get product to market.

But, I will admit to being both jaded and cynical.
And lived in the 'burbs from '68 to '70 (The '68 Democrat National Convention riots happened the second week we lived in Glen Ellyn--ah to see His Highness Emperor Dailley in action )

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Frankly, your post, which seems directed towards generating a race war, rather than generating unity amongst American citizens, seems out place.

I read ChanceMcCall's post, and I still do not know the races of Sanchez and Hardiman. I wonder which races he is trying to pit against each other.

Crying "racist" is one of the lowest tactics one can use in an argument. It's impossible to disprove that you're a racist, and Mr. McCall's supposed racist animus isn't the topic of discussion anyway. The race card is just a weapon people reach for in order to avoid real debate.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

As another respondent wrote, my content was not racist, but it was intended to point out the fact that there are some very dubious people making a living out of leading anti gun movements and are receiving taxpayer money to do it.

I don't think you should waste time trying to defend yourself, since you didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Want to see the killing in Chicago stop? End the "war on drugs." It's not working and we can never win it without Orwellian-scale totalitarian controls on society. We've been through all this before with Prohibition. This is no different.

People will always want to get high (demand). Other people will sell them what they want (supply). There will be always be competition between the suppliers (gang war). It's not rocket science.

The older I get, the less confidence I have in the war on drugs. Right now, I can get in the car and buy any drug I want with very little risk of legal problems. Drugs are already available to anyone who wants them, so I don't think selling them over the counter at CVS would make things any worse. Perhaps I am wrong.

My sister is a hopeless painkiller junkie. It's impossible to describe how resourceful she is at getting drugs, and she is far from exceptional. You could put a bottle of Vicodin on the moon, and she would have it in her purse in an hour. She can get all the drugs she wants. Laws just make her drugs more expensive.

There was a time when you could walk into drugstores and buy heroin and morphine, and it sure seems like our drug problem is worse now than it was then.

 

[JeffG]

Still nothing on combating criminal gangs and drug cartels that have been ignored by the local government, and thrive on drug sales and prostitution. The demand for these things must be staggering, as large parts of the city are immersed in criminality; it's where the turf war shootouts happen.

 

[JeffG]

Legalizing drugs would expand the number of people dependent of the state for existence and addiction related medical care exponentially. The working population is at a breaking point; 5 generations of welfare since the Civil War, populations growing annually. More and more unskilled generations unable to produce in the workplace, and you want to add populations of drug addicts? Most of them don't even pay for their own funerals, the taxpayers do... Nobody works, and everybody racks up bills for the taxpayer, where do you think this is headed...? Not a gun problem.

 

[theotherwaldo]

What's all this "race war" nonsense?

I thought that we were all members of the HUMAN race!

It's the racists that try to divide us up into a bunch of "races" based on minor ethnic differences.

Divide and conquer is their motto.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Legalizing drugs would expand the number of people dependent of the state for existence and addiction related medical care exponentially.

Drugs used to be legal, and these things didn't happen. On the other hand, there were no drug cartels or violent drug gangs.

 

[Dibbs]

You can't think these things up. Truth is literally stranger than fiction. In a city whose violence rivals
Beirut, the very model of the failure of Gun Control in America, the leaders of the GC movement are
a wife beater and a 51 year-old felon street gang member.

FWIW, they call us "racist", because they adamantly refuse to acknowledge what we really are:

idiot-ist...

 

[Demi-human]

Isn't it strange how they force their experience with firearms, and their inability to be trusted with them, onto a population that did not need to learn from experience that shooting humans is wrong?

And yet they know not that breaking things and impeding a human's freedom of movement to get their way is wrong as well...

Very curious.(Not really.)

 

[Tommygunn]

Drugs used to be legal, and these things didn't happen. On the other hand, there were no drug cartels or violent drug gangs.

Real-politic; we're not going back to 1918 again, cartels exist, drug abuse exists, the opioid epidemic is real, and wishing to go back to the jurisprudence of centuries ago is not going to help.

I'm not saying we need to continue onward with blinders, refusing to re-evaluate our laws or policies, and jailing everyone who sticks some goo in their body we don't like....
...but we do need to be realistic. Were we to legalize drugs, while we might do much to help the addicted, those cartels are not going to dry up and blow away. Maybe you're not one who thinks they will, but there ARE those who think they WILL.
They will not.
These cartels are already involved in sex trade and sex slavery, plus, other reports I've heard indicate that some Mexican cartels are harboring and training ISIS and HEZBULLAH members. That bodes very much evil for us down the road.

Let's look at our archaic drug laws, yes! But let's also keep our heads on straight, our eyes open, and our powder dry.
Evil has always been around in one form or another. It changes form, not quality, or, necessarily, quantity.