Chicago Police to use M4 carbines (Chicago Tribune)

[Neo-Luddite]

Chicago Police to use M4 carbines
Associated Press
7:31 AM CDT, April 26, 2008

CHICAGO - Chicago Police Superintendent Jody Weis has plans to equip the department's officers with M4 carbines to match the firepower of the street gangs they have to face to stop the wave of shootings in the city.

Weis' decision to arm and train his 13,500 officers with more powerful weapons was disclosed Friday.

Chicago Police SWAT teams are already equipped with M4 carbines, but rank-and-file officers are currently only allowed to carry handguns.

The M4 is a short assault rifle used by the Marine Corps, and it fires more shots in less time than most handguns. The fully automatic version can fire up to 1,000 rounds a minute, although the magazines only hold from 20 to 30 shots.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-chicagoviolence-c,0,7343680.story

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Really just FYI. The recent increase in gang/youth murders has caused Mayor Daley to hold a 'private' meeting yesterday on whatever should be done. This may be the only sensible thing to come out of it (the rest was, well, the usual for Mayor Daley....). See how fast it gets implemented; I would not hold my breath.

 

[Onmilo]

"The M4 carbine is the short assault rifle used by the Marine Corps."
Uh, try again Associated Press,,,,,,,,

 

[FieroCDSP]

Hmm...regular cops walking(or driving) the beat with an M4 slung. Incapacitate the cop with an ambush and "Hey, kewl... an assault rifle!!!"

I'm all for the cops being sufficiently armed, but the next step on Dailey's list is Martial Law.

 

[45Guy]

They don't carry long guns slung, they're locked in a rack between the front seats. No cop walking a beat has a long gun, only patrol cars have them.

 

[Guitargod1985]

The Chicago police need to match firepower? What firepower? I thought handguns and dreaded "assault weapons" were banned.

 

[RLsnow]

I see what you did there xD ^

 

[Eightball]

the next step on Dailey's list is Martial Law.

That's not essentially already happening?

 

[FourTeeFive]

Know what is behind your target

I personally think this is pretty frightening considering they will be using these in a very heavily populated urban environment. How many times do we read about police situations where dozens of rounds are expended but the suspect was hit only a few times? That is with handguns; it should be interesting to see where all those rifle rounds end up during a firefight.

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

No way can the M-4 fire 1000 rounds/minute, even in full auto. Considering the heat build-up in the barrel, you get about 20 rounds/minute. 1000 rounds/minute and the barrel would be melted, lol. Idiots in the press.

 

[ilbob]

If you guys read secondcitycop's blog, you might well be a little frightened of this move considering the minimal level of ongoing training the average CPD officer now gets on his sidearm.

Although really, a refresher course twice a year on the 3 rules and basic shooting skills, and putting a few hundred rounds downrange is probably adequate for the average cop. I don't expect a high degree of shooting skill from the average cop, not much more than I would expect out of the average armed citizen. Its the same kind of defensive shooting.

Personally, for an urban area I would think a pump shotgun is a better choice.

 

[FourTeeFive]

No way can the M-4 fire 1000 rounds/minute, even in full auto.

Per Colt's specs the cyclic rate of fire is 700-950 rpm. That is just a rating of how fast it autoloads, not that it is necessarily capable of continuous fire at that rate. Unless there were belt-fed M4's the continuous fire capability isn't really an issue.

http://www.colt.com/mil/M4_2.asp

 

[FourTeeFive]

Personally, for an urban area I would think a pump shotgun is a better choice.

Or perhaps a carbine in the same caliber as their pistols? Seems a little more practical considering the level of training.

 

[2TransAms]

I may have missed your point,but why is that? Ammo interchangeability is not a huge priority for the average patrol officer.
The average cop is not going to be in a sustained firefight. One mag of .223 should be plenty in their carbines. I don't see the need for a .40 S&W carbine for the local PD.

That being said and now back on topic,I don't really have a problem with officers having M4's in the car,but it seems Chicago is really looking in all the wrong places to fix their crime problems. I wonder how many of the guns used in shootings the other night were obtained or carried legally? My money's on zero.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Considering the heat build-up in the barrel, you get about 20 rounds/minute. 1000 rounds/minute and the barrel would be melted, lol.

Umm... wrong.


The limiting factor of the m16 and variants is how fast you can change the mags, and how much ammo you can carry.


The Germans managed to field the belt fed MG-42 without melting barrels (they had to swap them periodically during high volume shooting.).


The M16 barrel heat is barely an issue. Assuming you fired and swapped mags as fast as you could for one minute straight on full auto. It might be hot as all get out, but if would function just fine.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

If they order from IL based Armalite like the ISP did--it's good for the economy; imagine dollars going FROM Chicago to a GUN MAKER in RURAL ILLINOIS! I love it, I LOVE IT!!!

Maybe a commemorative edition can be sold off, too--just like with the ISP-spec guns. Maybe Daley's picture on the stock...or giving you a smile and thumbs up on the zero target???!!!


Practical? Worth trying out.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Per Colt's specs the cyclic rate of fire is 700-950 rpm
This has always bugged me about the published cyclic rate of
full auto combat arms, given that typical magazine capacity is
20 or 30 rounds (yes, M4s in the movies can fire continuously
for several minutes but thats propanr driven prop guns ).

The cyclic rate of fire is 11 to 15 rounds per second is
actually a more useful way of expressing the cyclic rate of fire of
box magzine fed full autos.

 

[S4Lee]

How about we all write letters urging all the AR manufacturers to not sell to Chicago at all? That would make an interesting headline - "Chicago PD, like all other Chicago residents, can't obtain weapons to protect themselves from gangs!"

 

[RustyShackelford]

6.8mm SPC round- urban LE use

If I were a metro police chief or Sheriff(in a urban area), I'd issue an M-4 type rifle in the new 6.8mm SPC load. This round was developed for spec ops but clearly shows it can carry over to US law enforcement.
Many US Spec ops units prefer 7.62mmNATO or 6.8 SPC rifles to the 5.56mmNATO. The larger rounds offer more power and the rifles are the same size with the same features.
One of the US Army Delta Force members who won the MOH(medal of honor) always had an older model custom M-14 in 7.62mm over the M-4/CAR-15 style 5.56mm weapon other Delta/SEAL operators would carry on missions. SFC Shugart was reported to at least 25 confirmed kills in the incident where he was finally killed in Restore Hope(1993).

 

[k_dawg]

Of course.. what he is NOT saying is.. only one of the recent gun murders, were from an "assault weapon", which was semi-auto..

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Considering the heat build-up in the barrel, you get about 20 rounds/minute

20 round a minute? Where on earth did you get this number?

 

[Sage of Seattle]

CHICAGO - Chicago Police Superintendent Jody Weis has plans to equip the department's officers with M4 carbines to match the firepower of the street gangs they have to face to stop the wave of shootings in the city.

Weis' decision to arm and train his 13,500 officers with more powerful weapons was disclosed Friday.

Chicago Police SWAT teams are already equipped with M4 carbines, but rank-and-file officers are currently only allowed to carry handguns.

The M4 is a short assault rifle used by the Marine Corps, and it fires more shots in less time than most handguns. The fully automatic version can fire up to 1,000 rounds a minute, although the magazines only hold from 20 to 30 shots.

Hahaha!

The Idaho Statesman had a story almost exactly like this one a few weeks back -- drove me through the roof. There was even a chart with FULLY AUTOMATIC ASSAULT RIFLES next to the little tiny mention that these rifles for the police were semi auto.

And, the kicker is that the Statesman article also mentioned that the local fuzz were getting their fancy new AR-15's because some police commissioners somewhere said that police are losing the arms race to criminals too! OMGLOLWTF!!!!!!11111!!11 OHMYGODWEVEGOTTOGETOUROWNSEMIAUTOMATICASSAULTWEAPONSTOOOTHERWISETHEBADGUYS WILLTAKEOVERTHEWORLD!!!!!!



*wipes a tear from his eye*

Oh, lord. I do hate these so-called journalists...

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Give them Mp5's, or UMP's in .40 if you want stopping power.

 

[glockman19]

How about we all write letters urging all the AR manufacturers to not sell to Chicago at all?

I agree.

"Chicago PD, like all other Chicago residents, can't obtain weapons to protect themselves from gangs!"

LOL

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Have there been indicents recently where the Chicago PD was undergunned like in the N. Hollywood shootout, or did the superindendent just have a bad dream about one?

Obviously if there is an issue of bad guys having some sort of superior firepower, their ban is ineffective and should be lifted because like all others, they are restricting the wrong people.

One thing that concerns me (besides the fact that this is exactly what the 2a sought to avoid, a one sided concentration of weapons), is everytime the LE uses these guns, or possibly everytime they are even on scene, you can bet it'll go into the brady bunch's stats about "assault rifle involved shootings", even though the good guys were using them. Joe Public won't know any better.