Child killed by police shooting at snake.

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Obviously, it was the wrong thing to do. Why fire though the ROOF?? Still, the odds of hitting the kid out fishing were astronomically low. Yeah, a person should never fire into the air, but squirrel hunters do it all the time. Just a VERY sad situation.
Marty
 
Let's assume that the officer believed the snake to be a rattler. Was there any "immediate" danger that necessitated its immediate destruction? Or was there time to wait for "Animal Control"? What weapon or method would animal control have used?

There has to be someone here on THR who either works for, or has a family member/friend who works animal control.
 
Bad judgement and bad luck enough to go around here.

But you guys are assuming an upward shot from floor to ceiling. I doubt a bullet fired upward through drywall, rafters and roof would retain enough energy to arc upward and then downward and injure the boy. Seems more likely to me that it was a horizontal shot that overpenetrated the siding and struck the boy. i.e., direct fire.

TC
 
Did some searching: over 500 threads with "animal control" but only about 60 with "snake control".

I found this thread: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=201645&highlight=snake+control in which our good friend 84B20 stated that he "...tried to kill a rattler that was attempting to enter (his) house with 8 rounds of .45cal snake shot from about 5 feet away and it barely fased him. I'm a good shot and had pleanty of time to aim but all it did was open a small wound..."
 
Guess some folks ain't heard about shovels!!!:evil:

Snakes just ain't that danged dangerous if you respect them a little bit.

Now I ain't sayin' don't kill them, but you can pick you time and place. Sometimes a stick and some common sense is more appropriate than a gun....:rolleyes:
 
The discussion is how to handle such a situation safely. I did a search of "snake control" and have found several interesting takes. Some people believe that shotshells for pistol are effective others say they are not.
 
This subject has indeed been discussed and the thread closed.

It is extremely pertinent though. Rule Four. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

If this thread ends up a cop bashing thread, it will be closed again.

If this thread remains a venue to stress the importance of the Four Rules and a means of remembrance for the deceased, I see no reason why this thread should not remain open.

Regarding the apparent discrepancy: Judging from the photos, the snake was near or in a bird house underneath the corrugated fiberglass roof of a patio.

Yes, mistakes were made. Let's not beat our chests and claim it could never happen to us. Let's remember that a single lapse in judgement can transform any of us into the catalyst of a tragedy.

I pray for the boy, his parents, his grandfather, and also for the officer who fired that shot. May they all find comfort, or at least resolution, somehow.
 
This is truly a bizarre story.

Cop shoots at in ceiling of bird house, kills boy fishing at a pond.

IMHO, police officers should be issued birdshot to go with the squad car's shotgun. I can think of a whole lot of critters that could be dispatched with a load of 12g birdshot better than with a handgun.

has anyone here killed a snake before? I never have... when I saw them in the woods they were mainly going about their own business and i just stepped real clear.

I do remember one creepy incident several years ago when i was night hiking.. i was irritated by this reptitive rattling sound.. for a good 10 minutes... when i finally realized that it was a rattlesnake.

i stopped dead cold and the sound stopped. when i moved, it began again.

scared the bejeezus out of me since it was pitch black and the weeds were quite overgrown on that mountainside.

i tried real hard to keep going forward but then just gave up, turned aorund, and went home.


I am curious, though. where did you get your stats for only 12 snake bite deaths per hear?
 
I personally prefer the CCI .22LR shot shells and the CCI .22 Mag shotshells. But, again I ask, how much more equipment could LEOs be expected to carry before there is no more room in their car? In my case, I am not restricted to the area of a car...I have a whole house to store supplies that may be needed infrequently.

Another thought that comes to mind is location. In many areas, such as where I was born and raised, the LEOs were the animal control. That continued to be until fairly recent. I suspect that in many areas this is still the case.
 
Let's assume that the officer believed the snake to be a rattler. Was there any "immediate" danger that necessitated its immediate destruction? Or was there time to wait for "Animal Control"? What weapon or method would animal control have used?
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OH COME ON! I challenge you to come up with a situation where that would be even REMOTELY believable that requires as you put it "necessitated its immediate destruction?"

There are a multitude of better AND SAFER snake killin choices than a handgun.

Rakes
Hoes
Weedwakers
Lawmnowers
Cars
Machete
Rock
Stick
Boot
Oxy Acetylene torch
Cat

I've used them all they all work great even on poisonous species
 
"Then two officers came out of the brush over there,” he said. "They didn't tell us they were the ones who had been shooting or that they had shot him. They didn't admit a doggone thing.”

:mad:
 
"Then two officers came out of the brush over there,” he said. "They didn't tell us they were the ones who had been shooting or that they had shot him. They didn't admit a doggone thing.” :mad:
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Cannonball888, to expect the officers to "admit" to anything, to distraught family members no less, rather than staying quiet until they obtain legal counsel is asking a bit much, don't you think? I don't quite understand you "mad" smilie here.

Far better that the LEOs try to render whatever assistance they can, and alert and organize EMS.

Let's stay away from bashing, or this thread will be closed as well.

To expect the law enforcement officers to function as animal control is asking a bit much as well. Why not expect the homeowner to simply take a shovel, knock the snake down, and chop it in two? Why does law enforcement even need to be present to do this?
 
Days of old and no good snake shot loads to be found I made up a gun and load to do the job.

I had a 45 1917 model (used clips to hold the rounds in the revolver) I bought the gun from a guy who bulged the barrel and had it hacksawed off at 3".

I gave it to a gunsmith I knew, he cleaned it up and put a sight on the barrel and reamed the cylinders out to accept the 06 family of cases.
I used 308 most of all and 06 to cut down and put a load of shot in along with a 44 cal gas check, to hold the shot in, it was a real snake killer to the max.

The 308 die was perfect to set the gas check with the shoulder angle doing the work in the dies. I used #8 s and unique powder with a wad over the powder (between the powder and the shot). It was a killer on potato's at 15 feet:D If the gas check hit a snake (did numerous times) it would cut them almost in half.:what: I still have that revolver somewhere deep in the safe.:)
 
Let's keep the tone positive, and regarding how to do it right. If this thread goes negative, it too will simply get closed. No one benefits from closed threads.

I wonder, in the area that this happened, was there an Animal Control officer? If yes, was he or she available?

Another point that I would make is that while some weapons are more or less effective, if it is the only weapon that you have at the second the crisis happens, it is likely what one will use.

Ergo, we come back to foresight and planning. Should LEOs carry shotshells for their pistols, or say #8 shot for their shotguns? And if so, what other unforeseen situation might next arise requiring yet other ammo or weapons?

After-thought. I don't believe that anyone has yet contributed a thought of...what if the LEO had a snake phobia? It is possible.

Edit to add:

XavierBreath:

I agree, it is wrong to expect LEOs to function as animal control. It is an entire separate profession, and requires fully different tools, weapons and tactics. Thank-you for supporting that position.
 
After reading the article, what is to be learned is what was said above: Know what's behind your intended target. And that's the old, proverbial good-judgement thing.

I guess what this does indeed illustrate is how the sight of a snake can affect people's thinking and subsequent behavior. I've seen folks who normally are cool, calm and collected go absolutely bonkers at the sight of a snake.

Who said what to whom and when is pretty much irrelevant. The guy made a truly serious error in judgement. That it was a cop is pretty much beside the point. It could just as easily have been a neighbor, or the complainant's husband had he been home...

Art
 
That it was a cop is pretty much beside the point. It could just as easily have been a neighbor, or the complainant's husband had he been home.
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What he said. Any one can have a lapse in judgment now and then.

Although I have a hard time understanding shooting at a snake in a birdhouse with a handgun. It would seem really unlikely that you could kill a snake that way. The chances of hitting the snake in a way that would kill it seem remote.
 
I wonder, in the area that this happened, was there an Animal Control officer? If yes, was he or she available?
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According to one news story, animal control had been discontinued in Noble OK due to lack of funds.

Correction: The story states they "lost" the animal control officer. It could have been death, lack of funds, or a host of other reasons. At any rate, Animal Control was not an option.

The woman, who would not identify herself, told The Oklahoman she called the police station to see if animal control could respond and take care of the snake, which she believed to be a diamondback rattlesnake. She was told that the city, which lost its only animal control officer recently, would send a police officer over to help.
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Law officers, firemen, and other professionals are often asked to perform jobs that are technically outside their area of expertise. They are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I feel for all involved.
 
Art just reminded me of something...my Grandfather! I have never met a human being so fearful of snakes as he was. Even at 93 years of age, this retired farmer would take off in a "sprint" at the sight of any snake, even if 12" short! In his mind's eye, all snakes were deadly and evil! At all other times he was rationale, calm and cool...but even say the word snake, and he became visibly on edge. He would run to the house, grab his 16 gauge shotgun, a few shotshells and go "hunting". He never went to the fields without his loyal collie, "Lady". She hated snakes as-much-as he. If she didn't get the snake, he surely would.

XavierBreath:

Thanks for the info Re: Animal Control! Now, we have confirmed one fact of the what-went-wrong. Forcing LEOs to be animal control. It isn't right. The officers who apply to Animal Control are comfortable with animals. A road officer may or may not be so. Forcing LEOs to be Animal Control makes as-little sense-as asking a nurse to perform the surgery because they both have been in the operating room.
 
Well I am thinking...
Maybe a few snake shot loads would not be a bad idea in your briefcase (that area or any for that matter).
But the biggest objection I have to this is calling a LEO to do a simple thing as remove a snake???

Fear is a terrible thing so maybe that is the answer for all of them:uhoh:
As Doc mentions.
 
My next thought turns to the county commissioners. After cutting Animal Control, did they dedicate one or two officers for Animal Control training?! Even at least one day?! The equipment is not the same. That fact alone, in my eyes, is a huge short-coming, and not on the LEO's part.

Most unfortunately, I believe that I already now the answer to that question. I bet no one was trained up, and the equipment and supplies were simply stored away in some random a room.
 
I make my living as a Wildlife Control Operator.
First my condolences to the family of this boy and I also feel bad for the Officers involved. Very sad situation.
That said.
LEO's are not trained to deal with wildlife situations. We often have problems when homeowners call LE or attempt to do something themselves and basically screw things up. Often this is because a homeowner does not want to spend the money to have a professional solve the problem.
From what I've read here concerning this situation here are some of the ways I may have approached this.
The snake was seen sticking out of a birdhouse. This does not appear to be a threat to human health or safety so I would not even consider lethal control.
If the snake was a large diameter--I may have used a catchpole. Often called rabies pole. Mine is a 4' long pole with a wire loop on the end that can be tightened around the animal.
For smaller diameter snakes I would just use a snakepole. This is a pole with graspers on the end that is designed to safely catch the snake.
Using either of these methods the snake could then be put into one of my snakebags and released away from human habitat.
If the snake had retreated into the birdhouse, which is highly likely, I would have simply stapled a piece of wire mesh over the entry and taken the birdhouse to a safe release area then bring them back their birdhouse.
Unfortunately with the urbanization of our country,most folks now-a-days don't know how to handle wildlife situations due to their lack of knowledge about wildlife. People will often take drastic measures when those measures are not needed. That's what appears to have happened in this case and the drastic and fatal results are a sad thing indeed that could have been avoided if a professional had been involved.
 
murph50...now we're makin' hay!!! Thanks for the professional insights.
 
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