Civilian Marksmanship Program

[7.62X25mm]

The CMP was created by the U.S. Congress. The original purpose was to provide civilians an opportunity to learn and practice marksmanship skills so they would be skilled marksmen if later called on to serve the U.S. military. Over the years the emphasis of the program shifted to focus on youth development through marksmanship. From 1916 until 1996 the CMP was administered by the U.S. Army. The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 (TITLE XVI) created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS) to take over administration and promotion of the CMP. The CPRPFS is a tax exempt not-for-profit 501(c)(3) organization that derives its mission from public law.

OK, so this is a National Defense Authorization Act program mandated by the US Congress. They sell semi-auto rifles (M1 Garand) in order to train -- in essence -- "a well regulated militia."

So you tell me how this is going to square with Obama's agenda to outlaw semi-auto firearms for civilian use?

I checked the site:

http://www.odcmp.com/

http://www.odcmp.com/faqs.htm

The FAQ states that they don't expect to distribute M-14's, and it's a flat out, "NO" that they don't sell 45 ACP handguns.

Somewhere in the federal system there are warehouses full of 1911's and M-14's. These belong to the citizens of the United States. Why are they not being provided through the CMP?

"A well regulated militia" needs to be able to use 1911's and M-14's.

I'm looking into a US 1903 "Springfield" . . .

 

[CU74]

IIRC, the CMP'S charter specifies that they get only rifles from the Army. That's why they don't offer the 1911. The Gubmint - BATFE - has designated the M14 as an "automatic" firearm, which removes it from the list of firearms we mere citizens are allowed to own, (without special permission and taxes):banghead:.

Take what you can get and write your congress-critters.......

 

[Howard Roark]

Congress could abolish the law that mandates the CMP at any time. I think people lose sight of the true purpose of the CMP.

The CMP's mission is not to sell guns to the public. It does this to fullfill it's mission which is stated in the OP. Military marksmanship, youth shooter development and firearm saftey.

These goals are fullfilled by their CMP Military Rifle Instructor program, holding the National Matches and supporting various youth and adult shooting programs. There are many civilian instructors helping train Army SDM through the CMP.

The CMP has about 60 million in the bank. When the supply of well used guns is gone they will still support their mission.

 

[7.62X25mm]

-- and a current search for the guns they're offering turns up a lot of well worn junk.

 

[sarge83]

I just received a piece of the worn junk last week. A 1903 springfield, stock in good condition and barrel bright and shiny with rifling as it should be.

In October I received an Enfield M1917 in nearly identical condition.

 

[Hoppy590]

and a current search for the guns they're offering turns up a lot of well worn junk.

thats because, as the CMP itself said, some of these were shot out a LONG time ago. given to VFW and other organizations as parade rifles not fit for any kind of service.


know what you buy.

as for the comment about M14's

they are machine guns in the eyes of the state, you will not be getting them.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Isn't the CMP sponsored in part by the U.S. army?

You could try and make it political suicide to try and close it down.

 

[Hoppy590]

Isn't the CMP sponsored in part by the U.S. army?

You could try and make it political suicide to try and close it down.

the CMP is now a private (NPO) entity i believe. (since 96)

as for "political suicide" the army wouldn't have a choice. they will do as their told by congress.

 

[donkee]

and a current search for the guns they're offering turns up a lot of well worn junk

I have 5 Garands, a 1903a3, and 3 carbines from the CMP. They sure aren't junk. I'd take any of them into the big hairy furball.......

 

[crushbup]

Couldn't they just convert the M14's to semi and sell them? I realize that unless they torch cut the receivers, the ATF will say they're still machineguns, but I bet an executive order could state that as long as the gubmint decommissions them as semi (without autosears, etc.) with different internals they could sell them.

Win win.

 

[Hoppy590]

Couldn't they just convert the M14's to semi and sell them? I realize that unless they torch cut the receivers, the ATF will say they're still machineguns, but I bet an executive order could state that as long as the gubmint decommissions them as semi (without autosears, etc.) with different internals they could sell them.

Win win.

i don't know the specifics on the abilities of an EO to do that. but who would issue that? obama? certainly not. besides we dont have any significant quantities of M14's. we've sold/gave/scraped the few we had.

 

[Howard Roark]

Instead of worring about what the latest beat up offerings the CMP has why not get out and participate in a CMP club or go shoot a match. And take a friend or two along.

 

[taliv]

Instead of worring about what the latest beat up offerings the CMP has why not get out and participate in a CMP club or go shoot a match. And take a friend or two along.

+1

that well-worn junk seems to be selling pretty well

 

[Trebor]

The ATF would have to change their "Once a MG, always a MG" for the CMP to sell modified M-14's.

That's not going to happen.

It really doesn't matter though. There aren't "warehouses full of M-14's" anymore anyway.

The majority of existing M-14's were given away as military aid to Estonia and other ex-Warsaw Pact countries in the 1990's.

Since the War on Terror started, the relatively few M-14's left in inventory have been in high demand to be built into Designated Marksmans rifles.

The thing is, there are absolutely ZERO spare parts for the M-14 in the inventory. In order to turn M-14's into DM rifles they first have to find enough M-14's in good enough shape to justify a rebuild. That's been hard. Then, once they get a rifle made, there are no parts. That means they have to strip *other* rifles for parts to keep the ones they are using up and running.

That's one of the real reasons for the push for an AR based 7.62 rifle for the DMR role. A new rifle would relieve the reliance on the M-14 and those could gradually be phased back out of service, or just all used up, and a new supply of parts for an AR based rifle would solve the parts problem.

At one point the army actually bought back M-14 mags and parts from the CMP.

So, there really aren't that many M-14's left in inventory any more, and the ones that are left are being USED, so you can see why we won't be seeing any surplus M-14's come through the CMP, even if the ATF could be convinced.

We need 'em to serve our country and there won't be many left when they are done in service.

 

[moooose102]

, but I bet an executive order could state that as long as the gubmint decommissions them as semi (without autosears, etc.) with different internals they could sell them.

did you forget who our president is going to be??? lets see, obabma giving an executive order to sell semi auto weapons to the public...... i think you would have a better chance of buying a used mig 29 at your local airport!

 

[7.62X25mm]

Military issue M-14 is semi-auto w/o selective fire options.

There is a similar rifle in 7.62 NATO, pistol grip stock, full auto, which was called an AR -- "automatic rifle." It had selective fire options.

This circa 1966 - 70's, during the time the M-16 was replacing the M-14 in Viet Nam, but the M-14 was still used for training stateside.

 

[Oohrah]

Well, I think a step was lost as before CMP there was DCM before. A once
in a life time of each obsolete US weapon was offered under the Director of
Civilian Marksman I believe it was called. I was able to purchase one each
a 03A3 and 03A4 for $14.50. A 30 Carbine at $20 and a 1911A1 for the
same price. An M-1 Garand along with two family members who sold theirs
to me also for the sum of $158 each. All but the 45 Auto were in excellent
condition.
With the exception one one 30 Carbine (all were Service Grade) only
one in four was in the same condition as the DCM firearms. Yep, I do know
at one time 45 Autos in the early 60s were sold as surplus to civilians. In the
late 50s, M1 Garands were being sold new in the box for $98, and Match
grade $120. Not all of the M 14s had selector switches for semi/burst on
them. They are in demand by active duty troops that wish to extend the
200 meter range of the M16s.

 

[mgkdrgn]

-- and a current search for the guns they're offering turns up a lot of well worn junk.

I took delivery of some of their "junk" a few weeks ago.

Mossberg M44US 22 target rifle, produced in 1944, that look for all the world like it had never been fired.

If you have any other similar "junk" you feel the need to dispose of, please let me know.

 

[Trebor]

Military issue M-14 is semi-auto w/o selective fire options.

Well, kinda, but not exactly.

Yes, the military generally issued with M-14 with the full-auto capability inoperable.

The thing is though, that it was just a matter of installing or removing a set of "drop in" select fire parts.

When manufactured, every military M-14 had the capability of having those full-auto parts installed. It was one of the design requirements for the rifle and those parts were specified in the blue prints. In fact, I believe that those parts were actually standard issue when the rifle was manufactured and were only later removed by the military after the rifle was in service.

The fact that the military later chose to disable the full-auto function by removing the select fire parts does NOT change the fact that the M-14 was originally manufactgured as a MG. That's why the ATF "Once a MG, always a MG" rule kicks in.

That's also why the M-1A clone of the M-14 had to be redesigned so the receiver could not accept those drop in parts.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Somewhere in the federal system there are warehouses full of 1911's and M-14's. These belong to the citizens of the United States. Why are they not being provided through the CMP?

Actually there are not. Bill Clinton ordered the destruction or export of nearly every remaining M14 in inventory during his term as President.

 

[Blakenzy]

For the CMP to truly fulfill its intended mission, it would have to hash out M16s and M4s, perhaps even m249s... M1s although nice are a wee little outdated.

Seeing as that is not going to happen it seems that the CMP is arriving to the end of its life, its concept is outdated by today's standards and I guess it will be closed down within a generation or less. Growing distrust of the general citizenry and an overwhelmingly large professional army will prompt the Government to eliminate it eventually

 

[sublimaze41]

My junk CMP Garand that's over 50
years old, shooting 1968 junk Greek
surplus ammo gives me crappy 2 1/2
inch groups at 100 yards.

FWIW, I am not the best shooter with open sights.

 

[MAKster]

The purpose of the CMP is not to sell surplus rifles. Their mission is to promote marksmanship. At some point along the way the Army decided that letting them sell off surplus rifles was a way to fund the organization's operations without having to dip into the Army's budget.

 

[EOD Guy]

Military issue M-14 is semi-auto w/o selective fire options.

All M14s were manufactured as select fire rifles and were issued with the selector. A selector was issued with each rifle as a seperate part and it was up to the chain of command how many selectors would be installed. Installation of the selector was a five minute or less job.

When I was issued an M14, there was a selector switch in the arms room safe for each of my unit's rifles.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I've read on the jouster.com boards that ATF did approve, many years ago, a method of permanently converting an M-14 to semi-auto. It had to do with the way the full-auto system worked - apparently, there was a part of the receiver that could be ground away that made it permanently semi-auto. I have NO idea whether or not this is true.

That being said, the numbers of M-14s in inventory appears to be rather small, and the demand for them rather high.

If I had to bet, you might see M-14 parts kits, but not much else.

The 1911s? THOSE were shot out...and I would bet that what was not shot out was destroyed by the Clinton regime.

Other pistols? Probably destroyed as well...pity, as the USAF had S&W revolvers in nice condition.

Now, the real question is how many rifles and how much ammunition CMP has or can get. Remember that carbines were pure vaporware - until about 18 months ago. Now they are plentiful. Springfields and M1917s were unknown...but they turn up. Garands? After World War 2, the United States gave them away as foreign aid to just about anyone who was not in the Soviet bloc. I don't think they have all come back quite yet. And if they think the well is running dry, watch for cutbacks on the purchase ceilings. You'll know the warehouse is empty when they go back to one rifle per lifetime.

And kindly note that CMP is already selling new ammunition and parts.