daveit
Member
There are mountain lions where I hike here in Colorado...I like to think my Glock 17/26 with +p+ could stop one. From what I hear though, they can sneak up on you pretty easily.
close range coyotes with 9mm handgun?
- Thread starter butcherboy
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Boris bush
member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
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I was thinking, oh wait, I have seen more than alot drop to a 22rf. How on earth anyone thinks a 9mm will not take care of one.........
johnnylaw53
Member
Wasnt it in Texas that a mayor or govoner shot one with an LCP? I think if a .380 will do the job, a 9 mm will just do it a little better
It was in Texas our great Gov. Rick Perry was out running with his dog and the coyote was a danger to his small dog, so he shot him with his Ruger LCP with laser. Got to LOve Texas.
be safe
It was in Texas our great Gov. Rick Perry was out running with his dog and the coyote was a danger to his small dog, so he shot him with his Ruger LCP with laser. Got to LOve Texas.
be safe
Nushif
Member
HOLY COW! What do you hunt pigeons with?! A 12 Gauge slug?!
I understand that people want to put their prey down with one shot, but at some point you do have to look at realism. That is a *65 pound* ish, esque Coyote, not a massive charging elk about to wreck your car.
The 9mm round can kill 200 pound humans. WHY are we doubting its performance on something that is almost one quarter of its size.
Following that logic I could use nothing short of a .50 cal to pop at cans, just to be sure they actually move when I hit them.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Coyote are medium sized dogs. They are usually very shy dogs, and not known to be as savagely brutal as pitbulls when they DO attack. In all the cases of I have known of when coyotes were shot with anything bigger than a .22 rimfire, they wanted to get away, not turn on the person shooting them like a wounded bear. I think 9mm and such (9mm, .38 Super, .357, etc) in a handgun is just right for coyotes.
Your not shooting at 200 lbs of flab that needs a car to get cigs (I can drop that with one 9mm to the head). But 60 or 70 lbs of mussle with big sharp teeth and sharp claws and who's only thought is "What's for lunch". And they do not work alone.
But once your heart starts racing and blood starts pounding in your head (when you become the hunted instead of the hunter), lets see how good you can shoot. About 45 years ago I was squarel hunting with a 22 LR and a nice friendly copper head desided to make my aquantice, after making the longest long jump from a standing start I have ever made in my life, I emptied a full mag at it. I am not sure who was more scared, me or the snake. But ever since then I carry a side arm with snake shot in it when going hunting.
Unless you are hunting yotes, you are not going to see them untill they are 15 to 20 FEET away (or too far away to shot with a handgun). Get a 12 gauge, it works better than empting a 17 round 9mm mag at THEM.
Stay safe
Jim
By the way that's a nice picture of the Fox.
But once your heart starts racing and blood starts pounding in your head (when you become the hunted instead of the hunter), lets see how good you can shoot. About 45 years ago I was squarel hunting with a 22 LR and a nice friendly copper head desided to make my aquantice, after making the longest long jump from a standing start I have ever made in my life, I emptied a full mag at it. I am not sure who was more scared, me or the snake. But ever since then I carry a side arm with snake shot in it when going hunting.
Unless you are hunting yotes, you are not going to see them untill they are 15 to 20 FEET away (or too far away to shot with a handgun). Get a 12 gauge, it works better than empting a 17 round 9mm mag at THEM.
Stay safe
Jim
By the way that's a nice picture of the Fox.
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valorius
member
Not everyone crumbles under pressure jim.
I'm with jim243 on this. Fox, coyote big cats, good luck.
They are SO quick, if they are coming your chances of hitting them are REALLY not good.
The fox above was gone in a blink of an eye, from a feeding position, when I adjusted the camera against a tree to steady it, very slowly.
On the otherhand, once they latch on to you, you would have a stuff muzzle against, and pull trigger situation. For that, I'd like something bigger then 9mm, because I would not like having him on my arm for two shots, or more.
Besides, if you are out in the woods, most places around here that have coyotes have bigger stuff, like mountain lions, feral pigs, etc., and I'm not real sure 9mm is ideal for those.
Quick cat story:
We went to the Honolulu zoo, my ex-wife and myself. We were looking at a female lioness, about 10 feet from us, through a chain link fence I KNOW she could jump if she wanted to.
As we are looking at her, a seagull lands, maybe 10 feet in front of her. She tucks, getting ready to pounce. From the time I saw the tuck, I wanted to get my camera up to take a picture.
She tucked, jumped, jaws snapped, and nothing but feathers left of the seagull. The cat and the canary.
I did not have time to move, period. I never got my hand moving to the camera in the time it took that lion to attack and kill the seagull. Now, imagine a pride of about 10, in close quarters, hunting
the same cape buffalo you are...
My ex threw her cookies up in a bush, right after that. I wanted to kiss the lioness.;-)
They are SO quick, if they are coming your chances of hitting them are REALLY not good.
The fox above was gone in a blink of an eye, from a feeding position, when I adjusted the camera against a tree to steady it, very slowly.
On the otherhand, once they latch on to you, you would have a stuff muzzle against, and pull trigger situation. For that, I'd like something bigger then 9mm, because I would not like having him on my arm for two shots, or more.
Besides, if you are out in the woods, most places around here that have coyotes have bigger stuff, like mountain lions, feral pigs, etc., and I'm not real sure 9mm is ideal for those.
Quick cat story:
We went to the Honolulu zoo, my ex-wife and myself. We were looking at a female lioness, about 10 feet from us, through a chain link fence I KNOW she could jump if she wanted to.
As we are looking at her, a seagull lands, maybe 10 feet in front of her. She tucks, getting ready to pounce. From the time I saw the tuck, I wanted to get my camera up to take a picture.
She tucked, jumped, jaws snapped, and nothing but feathers left of the seagull. The cat and the canary.
I did not have time to move, period. I never got my hand moving to the camera in the time it took that lion to attack and kill the seagull. Now, imagine a pride of about 10, in close quarters, hunting
the same cape buffalo you are...
My ex threw her cookies up in a bush, right after that. I wanted to kiss the lioness.;-)
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valorius
member
What makes you think i or others haven't?
Prosser if an animal is coming AT you, it is presenting a zero lead shot, and is in essence a stationary target if you drop immediately into a kneeling position for your shot(s).
Center mass becomes it's head.
A hard shot with all that adrenaline, yes. But certainly doable. Many, many, many men throughout history have made that exact shot in a time of crisis.
A 9mm doubletap will kill a pig or mountain lion or a 300lb felon. Many 9mm+P loads on the market are the ballistic equivalent of .357 magnum. There are some deep penetrating 9mm loads that will punch through 36-40"+ of gelatin too.
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I know others have one's my best friend, ok so what's your story? (you would make a terrable poker player.)
Jim
PS: Except for the LCP, I like your choice of weapons.
"Many 9mm+P loads on the market are the ballistic equivalent of .357 magnum."
No they are NOT, not even close and I have yet to see a 158 grain 9mm bullet, which is considered a light hunting load for the 357 Mag.
Jim
PS: Except for the LCP, I like your choice of weapons.
"Many 9mm+P loads on the market are the ballistic equivalent of .357 magnum."
No they are NOT, not even close and I have yet to see a 158 grain 9mm bullet, which is considered a light hunting load for the 357 Mag.
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valorius
member
I don't play poker.
Most people do not consider 158gr to be the preferred defensive round in .357 mag anyway, they consider it to be 125gr. Many also like the lighter 110gr hollowpoints. 9mm+P+ ammunition is very competitive in energy and velocity with those .357 magnum bullet weights, and is a dead ballistic clone to the defense oriented "reduced recoil" type .357 magnum loads on the market. So YES, they are.
And 9mm 147gr+P flat nose jacketed solids at 1150fps will punch through 40+" of gelatin.
Why don't you like the LCP? It's not perfect, but it's a slick little pistol for what it is.
Most people do not consider 158gr to be the preferred defensive round in .357 mag anyway, they consider it to be 125gr. Many also like the lighter 110gr hollowpoints. 9mm+P+ ammunition is very competitive in energy and velocity with those .357 magnum bullet weights, and is a dead ballistic clone to the defense oriented "reduced recoil" type .357 magnum loads on the market. So YES, they are.
And 9mm 147gr+P flat nose jacketed solids at 1150fps will punch through 40+" of gelatin.
Why don't you like the LCP? It's not perfect, but it's a slick little pistol for what it is.
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Jim243:
Tim Sundles loads a Plus P 38 with a 158 grain bullet, at 1040 out of my snubby.
I use a 147 grain .357 Fioochi for SD, @ 1131 fps out of my snubby.
Out of that same gun, Corbon 125 grains do 1204 fps. THAT is about the only place
a 9mm comes close: 125 grain loads can be near the same velocity, provided the barrel on the .357 is less then 3" long.
Out of the PM9, I use 147 grain Federal HST. IIRC they go about 940 fps?
Seems to me some of the machinegun 9mm ball ammo is near .357, but out of a machine gun...
Tim Sundles loads a Plus P 38 with a 158 grain bullet, at 1040 out of my snubby.
I use a 147 grain .357 Fioochi for SD, @ 1131 fps out of my snubby.
Out of that same gun, Corbon 125 grains do 1204 fps. THAT is about the only place
a 9mm comes close: 125 grain loads can be near the same velocity, provided the barrel on the .357 is less then 3" long.
Out of the PM9, I use 147 grain Federal HST. IIRC they go about 940 fps?
Seems to me some of the machinegun 9mm ball ammo is near .357, but out of a machine gun...
valorius
member
Many 9mm+P+ 115gr loads outright out energy and out velocity lightweight 110gr .357 mag loads (the kinds preferred for defense), and the best 9mm+P+ loads are just ever so slightly slower (or lighter) than the legendary 125gr .357 magnum SJHP load.
Top energy performer in 9mm is the Doubletap 115gr+P JHP at 1415fps and 515fpe of energy. Both Buffalo Bore and Corbon also make 115gr/500fpe energy loads. The legendary 125gr Federal/Remington load is 125gr at 1450fps. Obviously, these are all very similar in both power and velocity.
500fpe of energy is .357 magnum energy levels, all day long.
No one is trying to say that 9mm is the equivalent to full house 180gr hunting loads in .357 magnum, but the defense loads are very close in energy and velocity levels.
Prosser try 100gr Corbon 9mm Powrball+P out of your PM-9, it'll be close to 1400fps even out of that short barrel. (and 1500fps out of 5" guns). The load you're using right now is going to give you about the lowest possible energy level in 9mm. Probably barely even 300fpe of energy. You basically turn your 9mm into a .38spl with that load.
Edit: i just did the math, that Fed HST load at the velocity you listed is only making 288fpe of energy. Assuming Powrball could turn 1400fps from your PM-9, you're looking at about 435fpe of energy- that's snubnosed .357 magnum level energy.
Top energy performer in 9mm is the Doubletap 115gr+P JHP at 1415fps and 515fpe of energy. Both Buffalo Bore and Corbon also make 115gr/500fpe energy loads. The legendary 125gr Federal/Remington load is 125gr at 1450fps. Obviously, these are all very similar in both power and velocity.
500fpe of energy is .357 magnum energy levels, all day long.
No one is trying to say that 9mm is the equivalent to full house 180gr hunting loads in .357 magnum, but the defense loads are very close in energy and velocity levels.
Prosser try 100gr Corbon 9mm Powrball+P out of your PM-9, it'll be close to 1400fps even out of that short barrel. (and 1500fps out of 5" guns). The load you're using right now is going to give you about the lowest possible energy level in 9mm. Probably barely even 300fpe of energy. You basically turn your 9mm into a .38spl with that load.
Edit: i just did the math, that Fed HST load at the velocity you listed is only making 288fpe of energy. Assuming Powrball could turn 1400fps from your PM-9, you're looking at about 435fpe of energy- that's snubnosed .357 magnum level energy.
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http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/9mm US M882.jpg
How about 27"?
With lesser calibers, like 9mm, energy doesn't kill, because penetration is the real problem, and shot placement. The San Diego PD
have been using that 147 grain HST, and, they have had excellent results. Perhaps because I like
big game caliber guns, I'm always concerned about penetration with service caliber guns. I have one magazine
with American Eagle 147 grain Flatpoints at 940 fps.
Anyway, here is a link showing what kind of velocities you can get out of a PM 9:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_GUNS0710.html
Here is one with the Corbon: it goes 1151 fps, which is pretty good.
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ch0809.html
Off to the gun store.
How about 27"?
With lesser calibers, like 9mm, energy doesn't kill, because penetration is the real problem, and shot placement. The San Diego PD
have been using that 147 grain HST, and, they have had excellent results. Perhaps because I like
big game caliber guns, I'm always concerned about penetration with service caliber guns. I have one magazine
with American Eagle 147 grain Flatpoints at 940 fps.
Anyway, here is a link showing what kind of velocities you can get out of a PM 9:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_GUNS0710.html
Here is one with the Corbon: it goes 1151 fps, which is pretty good.
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ch0809.html
Off to the gun store.
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Thanks Prosser
I use both the 147 grain 9mm and the 158 grain 357. You had me going there for a min. trying to figure out how you were getting a .357 bullet out of a .355 gun untill I realize you were taking about a 38 spl.
How do you like the 158s out of you P 38, I have a SP-101 I would like to try the 158s in?
Thanks
Jim
I use both the 147 grain 9mm and the 158 grain 357. You had me going there for a min. trying to figure out how you were getting a .357 bullet out of a .355 gun untill I realize you were taking about a 38 spl.
How do you like the 158s out of you P 38, I have a SP-101 I would like to try the 158s in?
Thanks
Jim
valorius
member
That chart lists m882 NATO ball. A round like the Doubletap 147gr+P FMJ- flat nose at 1150fps and 420fpe of energy that was designed specifically for deep penetration in a trail defense scenario is going to punch much deeper. IIRC it was over 40"+ penetration gel in some test i saw some time back.
Valorius
You don't want your bullet to go through what you are shooting, You want it to expend all of it's energy within your target. Fast 9mm will go completely through whatever you are shooting at. Smaller wound channel and less damage. (that's not good) It has been the age old argument between 9mm vs 45 ACP which is better. Like you for 40 years I too was a 9mm fan and wanted a entry wound and a exit wound to cause a lung to calapse and creating a sucking wound. But un-fortunely real life is not like the movies. So today I want whatever I shoot to drop dead and stay dead. That is done by mass not speed. The largest trama I can impart on a target (yes a 50 Action Express would be better, but is too large a gun to carry around, ie Desert Eagle).
I can push a 125 grain JHP in 357 mag to 1,506 fps with 22 grains of Hodgdon H110 powder and a 110 grain JHP in 357 mag to 1,693 fps. But what's the point a 180 grain JHP in 357 at 1100 fps will do the job better and will result in the animal dropping on the spot.(I hate having to look for the kill).
The first rule of hunting (well maybe not the first) is shot placement, the second is hit it with a Mac truck not a Fiat.
By the way take up poker, you would like it.
Jim
You don't want your bullet to go through what you are shooting, You want it to expend all of it's energy within your target. Fast 9mm will go completely through whatever you are shooting at. Smaller wound channel and less damage. (that's not good) It has been the age old argument between 9mm vs 45 ACP which is better. Like you for 40 years I too was a 9mm fan and wanted a entry wound and a exit wound to cause a lung to calapse and creating a sucking wound. But un-fortunely real life is not like the movies. So today I want whatever I shoot to drop dead and stay dead. That is done by mass not speed. The largest trama I can impart on a target (yes a 50 Action Express would be better, but is too large a gun to carry around, ie Desert Eagle).
I can push a 125 grain JHP in 357 mag to 1,506 fps with 22 grains of Hodgdon H110 powder and a 110 grain JHP in 357 mag to 1,693 fps. But what's the point a 180 grain JHP in 357 at 1100 fps will do the job better and will result in the animal dropping on the spot.(I hate having to look for the kill).
The first rule of hunting (well maybe not the first) is shot placement, the second is hit it with a Mac truck not a Fiat.
By the way take up poker, you would like it.
Jim
valorius
member
The whole "expend its energy in the target" theory was debunked many years ago my friend. And honestly, with an exit wound, there are twice as many places for your target to bleed from.
Fast 9mm tends to penetrate less because it expands so violently, by the way. The fastest 9mm JHP on the market is the 100gr Corbon Powrball at 1475fps advertised. It averages 12+" penetration in gel in most if not all of the FBI barrier tests.
Maybe my favorite load in 9mm is Doubletap 124gr+P firing Gold Dot JHPs at 1310fps advertised (Browning Hi power).
That's good for about 490fpe of energy, and has tremendous results in the gel tests i've seen. 13.25" avg penetration and .70" average expansion.
Either of those rounds would jack a coyote up right there on the spot with decent placement.
The bigger 147gr+P FMJ Flat nose trail defense round is designed specifically for deep penetration against big nasty critters.
I like to play with the ladies, i guess that's a form of poker...
Fast 9mm tends to penetrate less because it expands so violently, by the way. The fastest 9mm JHP on the market is the 100gr Corbon Powrball at 1475fps advertised. It averages 12+" penetration in gel in most if not all of the FBI barrier tests.
Maybe my favorite load in 9mm is Doubletap 124gr+P firing Gold Dot JHPs at 1310fps advertised (Browning Hi power).
That's good for about 490fpe of energy, and has tremendous results in the gel tests i've seen. 13.25" avg penetration and .70" average expansion.
Either of those rounds would jack a coyote up right there on the spot with decent placement.
The bigger 147gr+P FMJ Flat nose trail defense round is designed specifically for deep penetration against big nasty critters.
I like to play with the ladies, i guess that's a form of poker...
rfwobbly
Member
Ahem.... This harmless coyote question is sounding remarkably like the Timothy Treadwell story. Mr Treadwell, a self appointed bear "expert", lived 13 seasons among the bears in Alaska. During the "off season" he worked a speaking tour and made quite a bit of money telling people how harmless brown bears were. One day, oddly enough while his video cameras were recording, his "pals" dropped over for lunch. Apparently Mr Treadwell and his girl friend were both on the menu.
Read it yourself at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Treadwell
All carnivorous animals, no matter how cute, are dangerous. They are just like stocks and bonds in that, "past activity is no indicator of future performance." If they do not attack it's because they have weighed the risks versus their hunger and have decided against it. As coyotes become more common in urban settings, and food sources start to dry up, we will surely hear about more and more attacks on humans. There can be no other course.
However, I'm a freedom loving, pro-2A, conservative and so of course I prefer to look at the brighter, more optimistic side. The reason the Founding Fathers didn't have trouble with liberals during the first 100 years was that all the "animal lovers" were eaten by bears, coyotes, or mountain lions. Personally, I'm praying for a big bear, coyote and mountain lion revival in California, New York and Massachusetts. What could be more "natural" ??
Read it yourself at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Treadwell
All carnivorous animals, no matter how cute, are dangerous. They are just like stocks and bonds in that, "past activity is no indicator of future performance." If they do not attack it's because they have weighed the risks versus their hunger and have decided against it. As coyotes become more common in urban settings, and food sources start to dry up, we will surely hear about more and more attacks on humans. There can be no other course.
However, I'm a freedom loving, pro-2A, conservative and so of course I prefer to look at the brighter, more optimistic side. The reason the Founding Fathers didn't have trouble with liberals during the first 100 years was that all the "animal lovers" were eaten by bears, coyotes, or mountain lions. Personally, I'm praying for a big bear, coyote and mountain lion revival in California, New York and Massachusetts. What could be more "natural" ??
MYREDTAIL
Member
Coyotes ?
Let me say this about Coyote's, Here in NY State the coyote population has exploded within the last 10 yr's, the DEC had footage of a few coyote den's where camera's were place to keep tab's on their population & they found that at every Den there were skelton remains of apx 100 fawn & full grown Deer bones etc, What does this tell us hunters of why we are not seeing the good heard's of buck's & doe's anymore ? Sure the Coyote's have to eat to & they are natures predator's, but they are also Glutton's not only eating the deer they attack you, your cat's or dog's etc whatever? the DEC told us even though there is a hunting season on Coyotes here in NYS from Oct 1st to March 31 st if you see them shoot them even out of season to try to control their population, that was good enough for me, I love calling. baiting & hunting ol'e wiley, to cut down on their numbers,It's a great hunting pastime, & as coyote hunter's will tell you their not easy to hunt, they are sharp, & have keen sences, & are smart thinker's that can see far better & read the wind current's better than any human that I know.That's it on Coyote's in the nutshell, If anyone has photo's of their coyote kill's please post them for all to see & enjoy, & tell us what equiptment that you used to hunt them with. ?
P.S. Our state here does not allow, Any handgun's to be carried on you during the Bow hunting season here, This is the time when the coyote's are most active, So what are you going to do with an arrow & a pack of coyote's lurking near by, When you are bow hunting,A stupid law about no handguns during the bow season. after all I am not dumb enough to shoot a deer with a gun during the Bow season, & loose my hunting privilige's for life. ?
Let me say this about Coyote's, Here in NY State the coyote population has exploded within the last 10 yr's, the DEC had footage of a few coyote den's where camera's were place to keep tab's on their population & they found that at every Den there were skelton remains of apx 100 fawn & full grown Deer bones etc, What does this tell us hunters of why we are not seeing the good heard's of buck's & doe's anymore ? Sure the Coyote's have to eat to & they are natures predator's, but they are also Glutton's not only eating the deer they attack you, your cat's or dog's etc whatever? the DEC told us even though there is a hunting season on Coyotes here in NYS from Oct 1st to March 31 st if you see them shoot them even out of season to try to control their population, that was good enough for me, I love calling. baiting & hunting ol'e wiley, to cut down on their numbers,It's a great hunting pastime, & as coyote hunter's will tell you their not easy to hunt, they are sharp, & have keen sences, & are smart thinker's that can see far better & read the wind current's better than any human that I know.That's it on Coyote's in the nutshell, If anyone has photo's of their coyote kill's please post them for all to see & enjoy, & tell us what equiptment that you used to hunt them with. ?
P.S. Our state here does not allow, Any handgun's to be carried on you during the Bow hunting season here, This is the time when the coyote's are most active, So what are you going to do with an arrow & a pack of coyote's lurking near by, When you are bow hunting,A stupid law about no handguns during the bow season. after all I am not dumb enough to shoot a deer with a gun during the Bow season, & loose my hunting privilige's for life. ?
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The funny thing about snake shot to me, and which is highlighted by this incident, is this:
That snake was just passing by. Once you made your standing long jump, you were safe. After that, your best option if'n you still felt like you were in danger woulda been to... jump again! Distance = safety. There's no venomous snake in North America that will chase after you.
If you're out to eradicate snakes from your property/campsite/etc, then yeah, buy shot shells. But for defense against snakes? I don't get it. If the thing sits still, I'll shoot it with a regular bullet by aiming. If it's moving, it'll be going the other direction.
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jim243:
The 158's go 1040 out of my 360PD. They recoil at least as much as the .357 Magnum Fioochi, 147's at 1131 fps. I'd feel pretty good about either one out of my snub.
valorius:
You have a point. I should order some double tap ammo. HST is actually one of the better SD 9mm ammos out there, according to a number of sources. Pretty quick, good expansion, and hard to get. I got a bunch, cheap.
jim243: I don't buy the bullet in target stuff. My theory is you want a bullet that is heavy enough to expand, and, not slow down as it blows through the entire intended target. I believe the heavy calibers, .454, .475, .500, and .500 Max Linebaughs are REALLY devastating with cast LFN's because not only do they blow two holes in the target, they don't slow down much as they go through, and turn bone into projectiles as well.
That said, I've got a .475 Linebaugh 275 grain bullet that, when it expands, expands to 1.35", or 2 bore rifle size:
This is my new woods gun:
The top gun is my .475 Linebaugh, the lil girl is new, in .500 JRH, 440 grains @ 950 fps, or, 425's at 1350 fps.
I'm looking forward to working up some Hawk HP loads for the .500. Anyway, in the short term, most have said the .500 JRH, with cast bullets, hits like a .375 rifle, or, actually better. Thing is, with these guns, the bullets are already .475 or bigger. The low pressure 275 grain linebaugh speer bullet averages about 1550 fps out of my gun.
Wonder what that would do to a coyote?
The 158's go 1040 out of my 360PD. They recoil at least as much as the .357 Magnum Fioochi, 147's at 1131 fps. I'd feel pretty good about either one out of my snub.
valorius:
You have a point. I should order some double tap ammo. HST is actually one of the better SD 9mm ammos out there, according to a number of sources. Pretty quick, good expansion, and hard to get. I got a bunch, cheap.
jim243: I don't buy the bullet in target stuff. My theory is you want a bullet that is heavy enough to expand, and, not slow down as it blows through the entire intended target. I believe the heavy calibers, .454, .475, .500, and .500 Max Linebaughs are REALLY devastating with cast LFN's because not only do they blow two holes in the target, they don't slow down much as they go through, and turn bone into projectiles as well.
That said, I've got a .475 Linebaugh 275 grain bullet that, when it expands, expands to 1.35", or 2 bore rifle size:
This is my new woods gun:
The top gun is my .475 Linebaugh, the lil girl is new, in .500 JRH, 440 grains @ 950 fps, or, 425's at 1350 fps.
I'm looking forward to working up some Hawk HP loads for the .500. Anyway, in the short term, most have said the .500 JRH, with cast bullets, hits like a .375 rifle, or, actually better. Thing is, with these guns, the bullets are already .475 or bigger. The low pressure 275 grain linebaugh speer bullet averages about 1550 fps out of my gun.
Wonder what that would do to a coyote?
Boris bush
member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Messages
- 296
The deepest penetrating 9x19mm load I have ever used is the Fiocchi 158 grain ball at 940fps.
Got close enough to some medium sized critters to know you can end to end one with them. Thats in the front and out the back. It is the ONLY 9x19mm load I have NEVER recoverd a bullet after a shot. I aint talking wetpack, gello or water filled milk jugs either.
The privi 158 ball is alot slower. Stick with the Fiocchi 158 ball if you want real penetration from a 9mm. M882 is good but it will yaw after a bit of penetration. The 158 Fiocchi punches straight and deep. And yes it kills coyotes just fine..
Some of you guys need to go do a little nature watching while guarding your chickens waiting for robbers looking for a free meal. Lots can be learned about what works against what one thinks.
Got close enough to some medium sized critters to know you can end to end one with them. Thats in the front and out the back. It is the ONLY 9x19mm load I have NEVER recoverd a bullet after a shot. I aint talking wetpack, gello or water filled milk jugs either.
The privi 158 ball is alot slower. Stick with the Fiocchi 158 ball if you want real penetration from a 9mm. M882 is good but it will yaw after a bit of penetration. The 158 Fiocchi punches straight and deep. And yes it kills coyotes just fine..
Some of you guys need to go do a little nature watching while guarding your chickens waiting for robbers looking for a free meal. Lots can be learned about what works against what one thinks.
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