(CO) Shall-issue CCW bill

[Ian]

It seems that Colorado might finally get shall-issue CCW this year. I was speaking with Steve Schreiner (of the Firearms Coalition of Colorado), and it seems that we have enough votes to get this bill through both the House and Senate, AND it meets Gov. Owens' criteria. Let's get on the phones and harrass these congresscritters until it passes!

The specifics of the bill are:
* Shall-issue
* Qualifications: Colorado resident, age 21+, pass a background check, no mental health problems, complete a pistol class (pretty loose standards on classes, though)
* Allows Sheriffs to issue emergency permits to anyone in immediate danger
* Reciprocity: Colorado will recognize any state that recognizes Colorado
* Limitations: No carry in K-12 school, execpt by security personnel
* Public buildings may prohibit carry ONLY if they have a metal detector, security guard, and weapon storage at EVERY building entrance (something that TABOR will help keep from happening).

It's not Vermont carry, but it's a lot better than what we've got now. Let's make it pass!

 

[Morgan]

Not bad. What about sporting events, etc.?

 

[Rickstir]

AH.... but will the city of Denver go along?

 

[HS/LD]

Not being able to carry in schools sucks!

Thats the only bad part I can see.

I imagine the bill will change a lot as it jumps through all the hoops though.



Shall issue with the current rule regarding carry would be best.


HS/LD

 

[Gray Peterson]

Wait for the Schultheis bill

It's coming soon.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Find this bill:

SB63, by Senator Lamborn and Rep. Dave Schultheis.

Btw, can someone email me the full text of the bill? It's in a .pdf file and I can't read up on it from here.

 

[Billll]

There have been 3 gun bills introduced already. One covers uniformity, i.e.prevents Denver from declaring itself a gun-free zone. Find and read them all _carefully_ before jumping on any bandwagons. Remember last year when the NRA got behind a CCW bill that would have been worse than what we have now.

 

[El Tejon]

Good luck, Red.

Watch that "training requirement"!

 

[Shooter 2.5]

Well, gee Billl, what happened to that NRA bill that "was worse than what you have now"? Was it passed?

Wasn't there an election between then and now?

Could it be that the NRA and other gun groups changed the makeup of the Colorado legislature so that CCW bills like this could be passed?

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'm proud to live in a Colorado county whose sheriff respects the Second Amendment, but Colorado still needs a state shall issue law. This is a good year to make it happen.

 

[Sindawe]

????

Standing Wolf: Sheriff Masters? Or are you in Boulder County?

 

[KarlG]

Shall Issue State law would be nice.

I do not have a permit and do not carry, but have been considering applying. Anybody know specifics on Jefferson County?

Somebody noted that three bills have been introduced already. That is pretty amazing since the legisleaches have only been in session for four days. What are the bill numbers? I would like to look up the exact text so I can form an opinion and support (or not) one of the bills.

Thanks,

 

[Bob Locke]

Anything that includes a mandatory training class is a step backwards from where we are right now. Also, this bill would declare schools as free-shoot zones for the bad guys, which is another step backwards from current law.

From what I can see, this bill would only improve things in a handful of counties while making things worse in the rest of the state.

Not a winner, IMO.

 

[Billll]

The bills in all their glory, are at
http://www.leg.state.co.us/2003a/inetcbill.nsf/Frameset?ReadForm&viewname=2&resultformat=1
in PDF format. You need a copy of adobe reader, which is free.
Bill No's so far are -012, covering felonious use of a firearm, -024, which is the CCW, and -025, which is a statewide preemption bill.
-025 has the antis worried as it prohibits municipalities from enacting more restrictive laws than the State level ones.
-024 prohibits carry in K-12 schools, and allows private establishments to make their own rules. There's also a zoning clause in there that I'd like a legal opinion on, as it exempts local zoning from the part about local odinances not being more restrictive than the rest of the state. Does it allow a city to issue a zoning ordinance prohibiting firearms in commercial establishments? Or to Zone the whole town firearm-free? Inquireing minds want to know.
No gun laws were passed last year, and yes, we had an election and ran the Dems out of the Senate. We now have a Republican House and Senate, and a RINO Governor. Not Nirvana, but not bad. The Gov says he won't sign too loose a CCW bill, and I don't see enough votes to override him.

 

[Billll]

Shooter 2.5:
You wrote
----------------------------------------
1)Well, gee Billl, what happened to that NRA bill that "was worse than what you have now"? Was it passed?

2)Wasn't there an election between then and now?

3)Could it be that the NRA and other gun groups changed the makeup of the Colorado legislature so that CCW bills like this could be passed?
---------------------------------------------
1) As I said above, it was not passed, but it caused a great deal of grumbling in the pro-gun community, and strained relationships that really didn't need straining.
2) see above
3) Writing legislation that does what was intended, and nothing else, seems to be a near impossibility. My observation is that, on average, if engineers built bridges the way legislators wrote laws, America would end at the first creek west of Plymouth Rock. Politics is the art of the possible, but at some point we need to recognise that what is possible may not be what we want. Yes, the political terrain has changed, thanks to the NRA and the various other gun groups, for which I am grateful. Now instead of being frustrated at what could not be, I'm aprehensive at what might be.

 

[Bob Locke]

Now instead of being frustrated at what could not be, I'm aprehensive at what might be.

THAT is a lot said in a few words.

Well done.

 

[Shooter 2.5]

Thanks for the reply Billl.

It's important that we get all the gun groups working together. We still have a big job in motivatiing the 95% of the gunowners who aren't part of the fight. I'm very sensitive toward any criticism toward the NRA in public print. If I have a problem with them, I e mail them.
It doesn't take much for a person sitting on the sidelines to do nothing because they will always find the excuses.

Again, thanks for your help.

 

[Morgan]

Well, I've yet to peruse the language of the bills, but I'm with Bob - you start making "criminal safe zones" and what we've got now is better. Unfortunately, I don't believe a bill will pass without at least a ban on carrying in schools. Maybe if the language includes mandatory metal detectors and storage lockers at all entrances (as noted above) I could go for it, but we all know such measures not only don't work, but they are simply wrong.

 

[Zundfolge]

Anything that includes a mandatory training class is a step backwards from where we are right now.

Is it? I live in El Paso county and mandatory training is part of our CCW isn't it?

 

[Morgan]

Mandatory training of some sort (NRA course, etc.) is a good thing, IMO. A copy of your training certificate with your CCW application should be all that is needed. Any new government mandated training course is a BAD thing, even without the new buraucracy it would create.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The county I live in requires either an honorable military discharge or a firearms familiarization course.

The course I took lasted two days. If I'd shopped around, I could have attended a one-day course, and perhaps even found one for less than the $50 I paid. It poved well worth the time and expense, especially to someone who'd never shot two-handed.

That saidâ„¢, I'm very skeptical of so-called "training courses." An upper limit needs to be defined into the shall issue law at the very outset, lest leftist extremists eventually require extremely expensive, extremely time-consuming courses and/or indoctrination in anti-Second Amendment bigotry and/or courses with so-called "final examinations" only one expert in a hundred could pass. I believe all the requirements need to be clearly defined, including fees, appeals processes, time periods, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, or representatives of the Democratic (sic) party will abuse the shall issue law in their endless quest to disarm law-abiding American citizens.

 

[justice4all]

The only bill I will support is one that changes "may" to "shall" in the current law. Anything else is a step back. Teachers should be allowed to defend themselves and their students. I'm the NRA, but I don't agree with them that any shall issue law is better than any may issue law. May issue works well in most Colorado counties, and I'm not willing to tolerate all sorts of restrictions so that a few people in Denver can get permits more easily. CO has some of the best/least laws on CCW with a permit, and that is largely because it's a may issue state. But it's not may issue like Cali or Mass or NY. Most people in CO who want to carry can.

 

[Bob Locke]

The real reason a mandated training course is being included is a bone tossed to the NRA. Their instructors would get almost all of the business generated by such a requirement. Their support of the bill has nothing do with additional public safety, but is basically a promo item for the organization.

A person's knowledge of the laws and their ability to effectively implement their weapon is THEIR responsibility, not the government's.

More food for thought: What happens if there's a segment of the population that can't pass the course? Are they less-worthy of being able to protect themselves with a firearm than a top-notch pistolero? Not in my book.