cocked and locked carry advice

[walking arsenal]

so my new carry piece is a 1911.

ive never carried a gun cocked and locked before, what are some things i should watch out for?

how does one properly decock a 1911 while leaving it loaded? or is there no way to do this.

Edited note: ive been carrying for about 4 years, my first piece was a snub .38, the second a glock moved up to a 1911 and am still learning.

 

[capbuster]

As with any gun, loaded or unloaded always be muzzle conscience and dont let the muzzle move across your body or anothers body.Become very famliar with the operation of your autoloader, especially the loading and unloading of live ammo.Read the instructions. If you have a question,Ask.We all have had a learning curve to surmount.You pistol has several safeties but the most important one is your trigger finger. Dont place your finger on the trigger until you are on the target.When you come off target, take your finger off the trigger.Practice this with an empty pistol until it is automatic. No pun intended.Practice presenting your pistol from the holster using an unloaded handgun.You holster should be built in such a way that the the trigger is covered which is another saftey feature.As you present your pistol from the holster, work toward a smooth transition remembering to flick the safety off just as your aim at the target and place your finger on the trigger.Also practice reholstering with the unloaded pistol, remembering to take the finger off the trigger as you move from the target and flick the safety back on at the same time.Then reholster. There are some great books out there on procedure. Practice empty until you are confident with your skills then try them out at the range. Remember,safety is priority #1.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

C&L

ive never carried a gun cocked and locked before, what are some things i should watch out for?

Uh, not carrying it cocked and locked...



With the exposed hammer you can handle the gun with your thumb in front of the hammer and therefore eliminate most chances of ND.

You can easily look at the pistol before reholstering and see what postition the thumb safety is in, too.

Just carry it around the house empty but cocked and locked for a few days until you are comfortable with it and are sure it wont ND all by itself... <grin>

 

[OF]

A word of advice: do not, ever, 'de-cock' the pistol while it's loaded. I know of no pressing reason to attempt something like that.

Just don't do it.

Other than that, it's really not a big deal. The only thing to watch out for is if you have an ambi safety and carry on your right, (or carry on your left) you can swipe off the safety with your arm by accident some times, although it's rare and if you have a good holster and keep your finger off the trigger it's no big deal.

- Gabe

 

[OF]

PS:

Uh, not carrying it cocked and locked...

My suggestion would be: if you're not comfortable carrying the weapon in it's ready condition, get another weapon - one you are comfortable with. If you're going to carry a single-action auto, carry it the way it is meant to be carried.

If you are going to carry a single-action emtpy-chamber hammer-down, what's the point? Why not just carry a Glock or something DA? You're putting yourself at a pretty serious disadvantage with the single-action not carrying it condition 1.

- Gabe

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Please read it again....

PS:

quote:Uh, not carrying it cocked and locked...

My suggestion would be: if you're not comfortable carrying the weapon in it's ready condition, get another weapon - one you are comfortable with. If you're going to carry a single-action auto, carry it the way it is meant to be carried.

The originator of the thread and question asked:

what are some things i should watch out for?

To me that also meant, what shouldn't I do?

Of course, I responded: Uh, not carrying it cocked and locked...

IOW, it would be a mistake to not carry it in condition 1.

kapish?

 

[walking arsenal]

ok, so perhaps i need to clarify some things for a few people.

I AM new to single actions.

i've always up until now carried double actions or double action only pistols.

I dont like DAO pistols because of the ridiculously heavy trigger pulls most STOCK guns offer, the only exception is my steyr.

im not "uncomfortable" with the gun.

what i am concerned with is wear on the weapon by leaving it cocked all the time, i carry this weapon every day, every where, when it's not on me it's on my night stand, loaded, cocked and locked.

I guess what i should have asked was, how should i go about maintaining a gun thats cocked all the time, won't the springs wear out? is there a time limit on when i should replace them?

 

[Captain Bligh]

The first spring to wear out should be your recoil spring. Follow the manufacturer's recommendation as to when to replace this spring. Also, when you clean the pistol, check the firing pin spring. I found that I had broken coils off of the firing pin spring. after about 1,500 rounds.

I don't think you will cause any premature wear to speak of by leaving your gun cocked and locked, if that is your wish. I'm no metalurgist but I hear that tension left on a spring does not weaken it as quickly as repeating a cycle of tensioning and untensioning the spring.

But, pay attention to what GRD said. Never try to easy a 1911 hammer down over a live round. To de-cock, make sure the magazine is out of the gun and the chamber is empty. Make sure again. One can't be too careful. Okay, make sure again. Then point the gun in a safe direction and pull the trigger. Dry firing is okay in a 1911.

Welcome to the world of 1911s. We love 'em!

Captain Bligh

 

[gigmike]

A good holster built to shield the safety is also a must, IMHO.

 

[WEPS]

im no 1911 expert but i do not believe you van carry the weapon condition 1 with the hammer down safely, as there is no firing pin block on it. as long as you remember the four golden rules when dealing with firearms you will be ok.

1. never point the weapon at anything you do not intend to destroy
2. always keep you finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
3. always assume the weapon is loaded
4.always be sure of your target and it's backstop

 

[Automatix]

GIG...........said a good holster.............YES.

What he said. Good holsters are safe carry and good sense.

I have a small box filled with crappy holsters that would swipe off the safety........

BeSafe;
Automatix

 

[OF]

To me that also meant, what shouldn't I do?

Roger.

im not "uncomfortable" with the gun.

I didn't mean to suggest that you were, specifically, only that if you were what my advice would be. It's very common for people to be uncomfortable with C&L carry of a single-action.

No big deal.

- Gabe

 

[walking arsenal]

oooooooooooooooh, ok

no big

i never knew not to ease the hammer down, one would think this to be common sense but ive been doing it on a break barrel shotty for years, guess it didnt register.

i was lucky on the holster, the gun came with one from galco. the thumb break goes between the hammer and the firing pin, kinda neat.

never knew you could dry fire either.

learnin new stuff, keep it comin.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

learnin new stuff, keep it comin.

learnin new stuff, keep it comin.

Okay...

Half cock is NOT a safe way to carry a 1911.

Do NOT drop the slide on an empty chamber, ease it forward. This practice can destroy a good trigger action.

You have, by now, realized that you need to flip the thumb safety off to rack the slide and clear the weapon. Of course, you've already removed the magazine...

With a little practice, you can do this with a great amount of safety by placing your left hand over the slide and rear sight and holding your left thumb between the hammer and slide. Flip the safety off with your right thumb, then rack the slide. Your left thumb position eliminates most all chances of ND. Again, remember to let the slide go back into battery easy. I know of two models of 1911 variants where the safety does not also lock the slide closed.

When doing the above, just let the round drop out of the chamber. Many think that catching the round with the fingers of your left hand is bad form. The reason for this is that you eliminate any chance of a live round still being partially in the action.

BTW, when loading, the slide is much easier to rack with the hammer back... Duh! After cleaning, or for whatever reason the pistol is empty, I cock the hammer, then pull the slide back, lock it back and then insert a magazine. Then pull the slide back (remember the thumb trick, it does work for this, too) run the slide forward and last flip the safety on.

Another thing not to do is place a round in the chamber through the slide/ejection port and then drop the slide on it. This may not be a problem with an external extractor, but it has a good chance of damaging an internal extractor which is the original design.

Oh, and regarding dry firing, do it regularly. Just make sure that every time you pick the pistol up, you pull the slide back enough to see there's not a round in the chamber. Even if you just set it down to answer the phone or something. You don't wanna shoot your TV. Please do avoid an "Oh ????" moment.

Welcome to 1911s. Carrying one will probably change a perception or two...

 

[SunBear]

Do NOT attempt to catch the round you are ejecting by placing your hand over the ejection port. The round can be fired by the slide and you lose a chunk of your hand.

You WILL fight as you've trained.

BABABOOM!!! CLEAR!

 

[pittspilot]

Is that true for all semi-autos? That the slide can discharge a round? How does the slide do that?

I had never heard that before and am curious.

 

[SunBear]

pittspilot: When the round is ejected and bounces off your hand back into the open receiver; the primer can strike any of several sharp points and detonate. There are pistol competitions that prohibit clearing the pistol in this way. Happy trails.

 

[M1911]

Is that true for all semi-autos? That the slide can discharge a round? How does the slide do that?

The primer can hit the ejector. If it hits it hard enough and you have a soft primer...

I haven't seen it myself, but my buddy saw it happen at an IPSC match. He says that he saw the shrapnel coming out of the guys hand. Not pretty.

 

[walking arsenal]

Is'nt letting the round fall to the ground equally as dangerous?

I could see the primer hitting a rock or somthing just as easy as a sharp edge on a slide.

On the other hand, i'd suppose a round would be nose heavy causing it to be less likley to fall on the primer but instead nose down onto the bullet, i wonder if somthing like that could push the bullet deaper into the casing.

If i drop a round i consider it unusable, at least for carry, maybe for practice, but i look it over good first.

 

[Smoke]

Get familier with the safeties.

Unload the gun. Double check to see that it is unloaded.
Configure the gun as you would carry it. (C&L)

Depress the grip safety and leave the thumb safety engaged. Try to press the trigger.

Flick off the thumb safety and try the trigger without depressing the grip safety.

Builds confidence in your platform...makes sure the safeties are working as designed.

You don't mention what type of 1911 you have but if it has the series 80 style firing pin safety there is one more there. It will not let the firing pin go unless the trigger is pressed.

All I've ever carried are 1911 style guns. No problems. I have even carried a 1911 cocked, locked and with the thumb safety off (due to crappy holster as others mentioned) all day with no problems. (I do not recommend this)

The hammer back is a psycholgical hangup for some people, it need not be. They just do not understand the weapon. That is how it is supposed to be.

Smoke

 

[TRLaye]

Cocked n locked?

I guess I'm a little confused. I understood you to say that you had carried a Glock for some period of time.

As I look at the mechanicals the Glock is carried cocked, but since it hasn't an external safety, can't be locked. Depress the trigger and it fires.

The 1911 when cocked and locked requires you to take off the mechanical safety AND depress the trigger to fire. And then there's the matter of the grip safety.

Congratulations on carrying a safer gun.

 

[walking arsenal]

Smoke:
The gun is a springfield mil-spec G.I. 1911 A-1. whats the 80 series trigger, where can i find out more about it?

TRlaye:

I dont think i'd call the 1911 any safer than the glock, both of the designs are plenty safe as long as one exceresises the proper procedures AND keeps ones booger hook off the bang switch.

the glock isn't carried cocked, the glock is carried in a state of readiness. the way it works is that the trigger system sort sort of like a slingshot, when you pull the trigger this in turn pulls back the firing pin until the proper time were it disengages and the pin slams forward.

 

[TRLaye]

walking arsenal

As it was explained to me the Glock is pre-cocked (half-cocked) and the trigger pressure (5.5#) finishes the cocking, and sear release action.

Whereas the 1911 is cocked and the trigger pressure (4#) simply releases the sear.

Any movement of the Glock trigger "safety", such as by debris in holster, pocket, etc will allow the gun to fire.

The same debris relative to a 1911, as long as the frame safety or grip safety is not disengaged, WILL NOT result in the gun firing.

Hence, to me, the 1911 is the safer pistol. All of my Glocks and 1911s function properly and when called upon. I have nothing against Glocks I just don't think they are as safe as some want to assume they are.

I will happily carry a Glock in a holster but will never stuff it in a pocket or use Mexican carry. I have comfortably done so with a 1911 pattern.

Just my $.02 worth.

 

[walking arsenal]

good call,

i agree that a glock shouldnt be carried without a proper holster, heck even with a proper holster ive heard of guys setting them off with the thumb snap, of course this could happen with a 1911 too.

 

[eldomatic]

C&L without grip safety?

I'm relatively new to the concept of cocked & locked having recently acquired a Colt Mustang II.

It seems the general concensus here is to always carry a 1911-pattern pistol cocked & locked and to "do not, ever, 'de-cock' the pistol while it's loaded. I know of no pressing reason to attempt something like that." The pistol cannot be fired without disengaging the thumb safety, depressing the grip safety and then pulling the trigger.

The question I have regards my Colt Mustang II, which does not have the grip safety but does have a light trigger. The safety is fairly easy to operate. I carry in a Desantis Nemesis nylon pocket holster usually in my back pocket.
Without the "additional" safety device of the grip safety, and the fact that the Colt Mustang is Series 80 with the firing pin lock, is there merit to carying in "condition 2" - A round is in the chamber and the hammer down?