Collapsible Batons

Status
Not open for further replies.
a small cutting tool that can be used instictivly is the way to go right after a can of pepper spray.
Click to expand...
Read: hooked slashing blade?

I like the boker subclaw, hide away knife, spyderco harpy and civilian. They will all inflict horrendous wounds with minimal training.
 
My mothers roomate and he is a former cop and he said they are only for the polive to carry but i bought one anyways.
 
Tell your moms former cop roommate he's full of crap , Ive carried an asp as a security officer for 5 yrs.
 
Why would you want to carry a collapsible baton when you can carry a stick/baton openly while running/walking? Carrying either, or a knife or chemical spray or whatever, should be coupled with some training. It doesn't have to be a lifetime pursuit of martial arts, but a day with a trainer and some periodic practice will enhance your tool use enormously.

Whether it is legal to do so depends upon your state/local laws and you need to know those for any defensive weapon choices regardless of whether you're considering carrying a stick, knife, gun, taser or chemical spray. Know the laws for your area.

For those giving advice on "the law" remember that YOUR state/local laws may not be the same as those for others living elsewhere. If you don't know what your laws are don't give advice. If you don't know what the law is in the person's state you're directing your advice to don't give any other than to look it up. AND, for heaven's sake don't repeat something you've been told by someone. Look it up first to make sure it's correct.
 
For those giving advice on "the law" remember that YOUR state/local laws may not be the same as those for others living elsewhere. If you don't know what your laws are don't give advice. If you don't know what the law is in the person's state you're directing your advice to don't give any other than to look it up. AND, for heaven's sake don't repeat something you've been told by someone. Look it up first to make sure it's correct.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that. Non-firearm weapons are almost always a matter of state law, not federal. The poster, for everyone else's info, is from North Carolina. I was going avoid the subject originally, but it seems some properly sourced remarks may be helpful. Please no one take the following as an endorsement of carry, nor as attorney's advice.

So are expandable batons legal in NC to carry? It's not very clear. NC does not name any sort of billy club weapon in its list of prohibited weapons under § 14‑269, (meaning they are not per se weapons) but includes the ominous "other deadly weapon of like kind."

A person caught and prosecuted for carrying a concealed deadly weapon is entitled to a defense:
(1) The weapon was not a firearm;
(2) The defendant was engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which he legitimately used the weapon;
(3) The defendant possessed the weapon for that legitimate use; and
(4) The defendant did not use or attempt to use the weapon for an illegal purpose.
The burden of proving this defense is on the defendant.
Click to expand...

Two things to note:
1. It says concealed is illegal, but there is nothing against open carry. This for example is what allows uniformed security officers to carry a baton on their belts. Similarly, a jogger running with a 8" cylinder in their hand usually does not attract much attention.
2. Note no special exception is made for pepper spray either, yet no one is ever prosecuted for it. Likely this is because OC is viewed as a Less-Lethal, not "deadly." Some defendants have been able to argue the baton is also intended as a Less-Lethal, and have avoided conviction this way, usually coupled with proof of proper training. You may note for example that the baton is legal in TN but only with certification of training. Note however that arguing with an arresting police officer who does not know the law in detail is a bad idea.

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.html
 
You'll find that in NC, the morass of State law (an odd combination of modern and common law) is often augmented by local/county level laws that prohibit certain things.
For example, what is a legal for carry pocket knife in one area may violate a blade length ordinance in another.
Local laws should be checked for baton/sap/etc regulations in addition to State General Statutes.
 
Personally, I do not feel a collapsible baton is a good option for them. Even when not under stress, many people have a hard time flicking it open. LEO included. You need to practice quite often to get the hang of flicking it open, especially under stress. They also lack in impact as some have stated, unless you hit with the ball of the baton.
I would rate a knife first and think pepper spray is quite useless. The up and down arm motion that joggers employ is good muscle memory for slashing and stabbing. It would be a lil more instinctive to employ if need be. Also,this would be a good starting point for some training.

Situational awareness is key for any female jogger and I would suggest running in an open area rather than narrow trails with bushes. There are two cases that made the media spotlight years ago. Both involved female joggers running through NYCs Central park. The M.O. was the same. Both females were blindsided and struck in the face with a rock, knocked unconscious and raped. One of the females was an off duty police officer who had here gun in her fanny pack. Needless to say the gun was gone when they found her. Its still remains a popular place for runners, though its cleaned up a lot, but this could happen anywhere.
 
PBear,

I don't think pepper spray lacks value, I just don't think its as useful and comes with more cons than pros for female joggers. Unless the attacker/s comes head on, pepper spray is not going to help. If the attacker comes from behind or side, it will not work because there is no point of aim. Or the very common "passes you by then attacks from behind" which was very common where I grew up. Also, say the attacker/s come head on, most of the pepper spray goes to waste because you have to use it in a sweeping fashion against a moving target to cover a wider area. This is the reason responding back up officers also get hit with friendly OC fire many times. Most of the pocket/palm size models only have a paltry 1/2 oz. or a lil more. Thats nothing if there are multiple attackers. If an attacker goes for a bear hug or a double wrist grab from behind, the victim will have a harder time getting it to face level, if possible at all. A knife in this situation would be much more useful as you could cut your way out whether it be a bear hug or wrist grab.This is just my opinion of course.

Carl, Box cutters are very common weapons here in NYC. You have to be 18 and show ID just to purchase one now. When I was in High school (a sh**y one at that), I remember reading an article on how many box cutters were confiscated in a year in city schools. It was something like 130,000. They were very commonly carried by females.
 
"Carl, Box cutters are very common weapons here in NYC. You have to be 18 and show ID just to purchase one now. When I was in High school (a sh**y one at that), I remember reading an article on how many box cutters were confiscated in a year in city schools. It was something like 130,000. They were very commonly carried by females. "



Hey chugo, sounds very similar to the Washinton D.C area. Lot's of box cutters out there in the hands of both male and female. It seems to have a recognized status amoung street types as an effective cutter. I can only wonder if this wide spread acceptance of them could have a good side benifit for a woman like the O.P.'s mom and girlfriend. If they had to pull a box cutter on some lowlife, I wonder if said lowlife would leave them be because he knows if he pushes it, he's going to be needing stitches.

Last year about this time, I was in a group therapy session down at the V.A. hospital in Washington, for a little problem with depression. I got to know some of my fellow group vets well, and it seemed like there was a kind of rule on personal weapons on the street. Now these are all people of some of D.C.'s not so good nieghborhoods. We talked about the subject of defense over some coffee out by the picnic tables one afternoon after our group session.

The men all carried some sort of very stout walking stick. It ranged from a rough piece of oak tree limb barely having any finishing touches, to nice sanded down and stainded, and carved with figures type of sticks. The two women in the group, both carried a disposable cutter. One, a plastic knock off of a Stanley, the other, a box cutter.

Something to think about.
 
In many jurisdictions, box cutters and utility knives are legally classified as razors, not knives. These are generally the same jurisdictions that prohibit carry of razors. Check your state and local laws before carrying one.
As an example, here in Pennsylvania, it is perfectly legal (in most places) for me to carry a 9 inch fixed blade. Razors, OTOH are prohibited under Commonwealth law. They're specifically labeled "Prohibited Offensive Weapons."
 
Chugo - good point, muggings and attacks were pretty rare around where I grew up. confrontations were a little more direct and face to face. Well then I say both then, small box cutter and some OC. do you mean the box cutters that have those snap off blades? or the small thin flat metal casings that basicly contain a razor?
 
Carl,

I think the OPs mom and girl would receive an automatic halt response from street thugs. A lot of average working people who live in not so nice neighborhoods carry them. If you "bust one out" most thugs will assume you grew up in a rough neighborhood. People from nicer neighborhoods wouldn't be the ones you'd find carrying them. A common phrase you hear a lot is " Whatever expletive... I'll cut you."

PBear, Most weren't picky, but, mostly the ones with snap off blades to answer your question.

Sorry to the OP if this has gotten of topic.
 
To get slightly back on topic. I've figured a knife would be best. Now I need a quality knife that fits my laws. So a folding knife with a blade less than 3.5 inches. Suggestions?
I carry a SOG Twitch II myself.
 
To get slightly back on topic. I've figured a knife would be best. Now I need a quality knife that fits my laws. So a folding knife with a blade less than 3.5 inches. Suggestions?
I carry a SOG Twitch II myself.
Click to expand...

Something I learned the hard way that I will pass on: You will need to let them test various knives in their hands. No one design is going to fit everyone. For example, I really cannot get used to Spydercos with the holes, they just don't work for me. As another example, when I was choosing a knife for my wife, she tried nearly 30 in my collection but had a hard time operating most of them. The SOG Trident (an Assisted Opener) nearly jumped out of her hand and made her nervous. With a few thumbstuds, her fingers were simply too short to open them comfortably. She finally settled on a serrated hawkbill-style with a thumbstud. (a cheap unknown brand, but still sturdy)

Find a cutlery or Army/Navy place in town and have them try a few out until they find one they are comfortable with. The look is unimportant; they should be able to use it, and ideally operate one-handed.
 
glistam said:
Something I learned the hard way that I will pass on: You will need to let them test various knives in their hands. No one design is going to fit everyone. For example, I really cannot get used to Spydercos with the holes, they just don't work for me. As another example, when I was choosing a knife for my wife, she tried nearly 30 in my collection but had a hard time operating most of them. The SOG Trident (an Assisted Opener) nearly jumped out of her hand and made her nervous. With a few thumbstuds, her fingers were simply too short to open them comfortably. She finally settled on a serrated hawkbill-style with a thumbstud. (a cheap unknown brand, but still sturdy)

Find a cutlery or Army/Navy place in town and have them try a few out until they find one they are comfortable with. The look is unimportant; they should be able to use it, and ideally operate one-handed.
Click to expand...
Great advice I asked my mom what she thought about my Twitch and she was too scared to open it. I forgot to talk to my girlfriend about it today, silly classes. It's on my list for tomorrow.
 
Paint it pink, that way it looks less scary to her and more "hers." When she feels like it's "hers", that she owns it and has sole possession over it her confidence will shoot up and make her a bit more comfortable, no more "Can I borrow YOUR knife?" More like "This one's MINE" Kinda like that Hello Kitty AR.
pink.jpg


And maybe someday she can be as sexy cool as this chick (knife skills are HOTTT)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OINmRPyyTSY
 
JShirley,

Would you care to share your reasons why you disagree? I've already shared my reasons why I believe so when PandaBearBG asked me. Again, I was only referring to OC being not being as effective in this particular application for female joggers.
 
JShirley said:
And I would disagree with both your points.
Click to expand...
I'd love to hear why.

Slightly off-topic I decided to ask here instead of make a new thread. My SOG is nice but I hate the way I have to hold it to open it and that I can't close it one-handed. Is there a knife that is similar to the CRKT M16? I have one I bought about 2 years ago and I love how it fits in my hand to be opened and how I can close it with one hand. I have heard bad things about the M16 and mine has become loose, the blade and the clip. Suggestions?
 
I know tons of women who carry knives, more for comfort than real practical defense, and with their mindset/attitude, would either never pull it or would get laughed right into the back seat of some abductor's car.

Not trying to be a jerk, but a knife requires a ton of aggression and IMO even a sort of brutality to use. This can be trained into someone, but it's not a pretty thing. It's certainly not a matter of "Here honey, take this pink knife and you're safe."

Another problem with knives, especially folders, is the question of "when?" Even for a small female, you can't just whip a knife out at the first sign of a threat. Remember, you can't draw it unless you can use it. A man can easily go up and harass a woman verbally without giving her justification to pull her knife. He can also cross the line so quickly, i.e. grab ahold of her, that she never had a chance to pull it before he subdued her. With a folding knife, good luck drawing it when you're being choked or dragged!

I'm not trying to put anyone down here, just offer what I see as reality. If your girl has decent training with a knife it's different, but again - most women don't really relish the thought of extensive sparring, etc, and certainly wouldn't do so just because their boyfriend/husband thought it was a good idea.
 
I was required to be certified with an ASP and with OC for work. We were trained on a handful of strikes in various regions, the point of which was usually to break a joint, or disable a limb through swelling. I say again, the objective was to break something. In other words, you wouldn't use this weapon defensively without knowing that your actions would lead to the likely breaking of limbs or joints. That might be hard to sell to a jury of your peers.

Further, the baton is a melee weapon, not a lightsaber. If I can take one away from a 200lb male, I can take it away from a 130lb female. ASP training included retention training, and they are easier to take away from someone than you think. This leads to an advantage for the adversary... not what you want.

The OC would be my first recommendation. It's easier for many people to deploy OC than it is to strike another human being. Range is an advantage. OC won't cause you to curl up and die, but it will certainly let a frightened would-be victim get away and get a report to the proper authorities.

Something like the Kimber Pepperblaster is a decent idea, because it works twice, and no more. If your loved one has to deploy it, have them deploy it twice; it can no longer be used as a weapon against them.
 
conwict - what you say is true about knives and their use. But darkninja already said his girl has had some training in grappling, jujitsu and I think Karate? For her anyways the use of knife will be a natural progression if she just practices with it. She already has more skill than most men and women I know and with more than a basic skill and mindset she is more than qualified for a knife.

Your right on saying it's useless if you can't get to it. Of course that goes for anything, your gun is useless if you can't get to it, just because you have one doesn't mean your quick enough if someone jumps you quickly enough, or you can't dial 911 if you can't call someone.

That said she having the mindset and skill necessary for effective knife use, all she really needs to do is practice drawing and using it. Girl or guy it doesn't matter, a knife or a gun, both will deal damage regardless of skill. Of course the greater the skill the more accurate and deadly you become, lessening the chances of injury or harm towards yourself. As for the pink knife thing, for weapons the intimcy and close relationship and personal investment/knowledge of YOUR personal weapon does create confidence and better control of your weapon. How often would you let someone (even your best friend) borrow your gun and you always stress to them to handle it carefully, so you don't scratch or bang it around. How often do you say to yourself, "well he handled MY gun alright, shot alright groups, but he doesn't know it as well as me to get the most out of it." It's a all part of a mindset that owners of weapons have. When your KNOW YOUR weapon it becomes that much easier to use.

And a knife is a knife and can deal out some MASSIVE damage even from an "untrained" person. For me it's as deadly as a handgun. Most inevitably no matter how "good" you are you will always get cut. I don't know about you but I have only been in a couple knife altercations and thank god only got cut in one, the other ones my co-workers were there and the assailant backed down. But I did get a nasty 8 in long graze down my inner forearm, and trust me this guy was a joke but still cut me before I subdued him. Even a pencil or pen deals out major damage, I underestimated a guy cuz all he had was a #2 yellow pencil and that ended up 1 in deep in my wrist and part of it broke off in there. It's not like the movies where someone can ignore or shake off even a small cut. a 2 in puncture from a pen knife can kill you. That's the biggest mistake people make underestimating a knife no matter how big or who the assailant is, if they can touch you with their hand they can cut you. Judge me if you want but if a 5' 100 lb female rushed me and wanted to cut me with a knife I would have no hesitation about firing my gun, a deadly weapon is a deadly weapon no such things as "someone just wanting to wound you." My $.02.
 
Yes, it basically comes down to the person.

On the other hand, "equally deadly to a firearm" doesn't mean it's as good as one for defense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
Baton Training?
2
Replies
41
Views
3K
Deltaboy1984
Deltaboy1984
P
  • Locked
Does anyone else EDC a baton?
2
Replies
47
Views
6K
RustyShackelford
R
Sulaco
  • Locked
Anyone else carry a collapsible baton?
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
Sulaco
Sulaco
K
  • Locked
Telescopic Batons
2
Replies
37
Views
5K
Matt_W
M
F
  • Locked
Best collapsible baton out there is...
Replies
2
Views
4K
Focke-Wolf
F
Back
Top