Jackal
Member
I can shoot an AR all day comfortably. I can shoot my 12ga 3 or 4 times before my shoulder is bruised.
Combat Shotguns: Dying?
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
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Some very amusing opinions in this thread. I have assorted rifles and handguns stashed throughout my house but my "go to" gun for any bumps in the night will always be a scattergun loaded with No 1 buck. Just because it does immediate terrible damage to things. The AR platform has never impressed me even though I shot "Expert" in the military with one in '72. And I've never shot one since. I find the idea that the shotgun has faded away because of the AR"s "supremacy" hilarious.
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Inebriated
Member
If you aren't already, try putting forward pressure on the forend and pulling rearward on the grip. That tension goes a long way in saving your shoulder. It's a new muscle memory to learn, but well worth it in my experience.
One might, if they haven't shot one in 44 years.
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BSA1
member
The pain of recoil from a shotgun can be reduced by a recoil pad and having the stock fitted to your arm length.
The undebatable advantage of the 12 gauge is the size of the hole it makes. It is going to make at least 3/4" entrance wound and a heck of a large exit hole. Plus there is the secondary missle with the wad.
The undebatable advantage of the 12 gauge is the size of the hole it makes. It is going to make at least 3/4" entrance wound and a heck of a large exit hole. Plus there is the secondary missle with the wad.
Schwing
Member
I don't see the use of shotguns declining at all in the near future. I work for my County PD in I.T. A 12 gauge shotgun is still mounted in every patrol truck that hits the road.
There are Pros and cons to any platform. If I'm in my home and have an intruder kicking down my door I would personally reach for my shotgun before my AR15. Now, if I am on my roof with an invading hoard descending on me, it will be the AR15.
As far as the recoil issue goes; I hear a lot of people claiming that, if you are getting bruised by your shotgun, you are doing something wrong. I have been shooting shotguns for 30 years and have tried every technique in the book and still get bruised after more than a few dozen rounds regardless. The only thing that works for me is a shoulder pad. Even if am doing something wrong I've yet to be bruised by an AR15 after any number of rounds and I have only been shooting them for less than 2 years.
There are Pros and cons to any platform. If I'm in my home and have an intruder kicking down my door I would personally reach for my shotgun before my AR15. Now, if I am on my roof with an invading hoard descending on me, it will be the AR15.
As far as the recoil issue goes; I hear a lot of people claiming that, if you are getting bruised by your shotgun, you are doing something wrong. I have been shooting shotguns for 30 years and have tried every technique in the book and still get bruised after more than a few dozen rounds regardless. The only thing that works for me is a shoulder pad. Even if am doing something wrong I've yet to be bruised by an AR15 after any number of rounds and I have only been shooting them for less than 2 years.
george burns
Member
I got rid of my last shotgun a Binnelli super nova, after watching it sit in the closet for 5 years. I just never have a use or reason to keep a 12 gauge anymore. I bought my BPS 40 yrs ago and sold it 15 yrs ago, I should have realized it then, but every once and a while they get popular again, and I think about picking one up. Right now The JM model, 10 round semi, was so cheap I almost did it again.
If there were someplace to shoot birds near me I would get one, "not that one" but I am not driving a couple of hours to shoot anything anymore, nor am I a Trap or Skeet shooter.
It's an expensive hobby even if you enjoy it.
If there were someplace to shoot birds near me I would get one, "not that one" but I am not driving a couple of hours to shoot anything anymore, nor am I a Trap or Skeet shooter.
It's an expensive hobby even if you enjoy it.
These old guys at the gun club do 12 stations and shoot at least 4 clays at each station, so that's shooting at least 48 times during a course. They can't be bruising their shoulder each time or their arms would fall off half way through the course.
Right?
200Apples
Mojave Lever Crew
Trap and Skeet shooters aren't using heavy-hitting, proper defense loads. They're using low-brass, fine shot when we who appreciate the 12 ga in a social role prefer to use high-brass 00 buck loads.
And then there are the shotgun hunters and their Magnum loads. No thanks!
splattergun
Member
I'm not ready to trade my Mossberg500 in on an AR yet. It's just too versatile. Ain't as whiz-bang nifty-cool as an AR, but it works for me in many ways, some which an AR can't. Short barrel, loaded with buck, for home security (among other options), a long barrel to bring down birds and bunnies for dinner, and a .50 cal. black powder barrel for fun shooting and venison.
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splattergun
Member
I can shoot my 12 ga dozens of times before I get a bruised shoulder, and I'm on blood thinners so I bruise very, very easily. I'm also shooting full power hunting loads, not light target loads.
You need to be sure the gun fits you, and be sure that you are mounting it correctly.
bushmaster1313
Member
The Fiocchi reduced recoil 12LE00BK runs about $6.00 for a box of 10 and is easy on the shoulder
And if that doesn't work, try a Limbsaver or similar recoil pad. Those things are amazing in how much recoil punishment they soak up. The Limbsaver slip-ones are fugly, but they work really well.
Jenrick
Member
This right here. If you truly do it correctly, there is very little felt recoil into the shoulder. We have 2 different 1 day shotgun schools for our officers, and each involve about 150-200 shells. If you do it wrong, even with birdshot you're going to feel it by the end of the day. Do it right, and you will barely have any bruising or tenderness even with full power buck or slugs (I did it one time on a dare). Honestly your hands will be more banged up then anything else. The best part of this technique is once you get it to work once, it's self correcting. You will instantly know your are doing it wrong when you get whacked by the shotgun.
-Jenrick
tkroenlein
Member
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- Jul 8, 2014
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Right!
Those guys that are shooting from the 27 yard line are NOT shooting bunnyfarts. Some of the handicap trap loads are quite potent.
Shooting standard slugs or buck with anything that resembles a recoil pad shouldn't bruise anyone in only a few shots. 50+ perhaps, but not 5.
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Sheepdog1968
Member
I shoot lots of trap. Most 12 gauge trap loads are between 7/8th to 1&1/8th of an ounce with a velocity between 1150 and 1350 feet per second. By shooting these weekly, OO buck doesn't feel too bad. Per OPs point, I don't think shotguns as a defensive weapon will ever disappear. On the wayne right now, maybe. They work well. Rifles are good as well and if those make you happy, that's fine too. Much like bell bottoms, shotguns will be popular again.
TreeDoc
Member
I'm sure the 12 gauge shotgun will fade away much like the ol' 30-30 did.
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
Thanks guys. I came across an interesting article when digging for stories about modern use of the combat shotgun. This is from one Marine:
https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/1oko69/the_mossberg_590_in_combat_the_experiences_of_one/
Pretty neat. He seems to consider them effective, and said that 00 worked well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/1oko69/the_mossberg_590_in_combat_the_experiences_of_one/
Pretty neat. He seems to consider them effective, and said that 00 worked well.
Kendal Black
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My thinking is that the right sort of shotgun is better protection than any rifle, in the self-defense scenarios that I feel are most likely.
I did some research for an article. Just a digest of salient points:
Most shots fired in anger miss.
Nearly all justifiable shootings are at short or very short range.
The shotgun has a higher hit probability than any other personal weapon, within its range limitations.
Even the wimpiest body armor will stop buckshot. But the shotgun gives you a chance to target, and hit, the parts of the assailant that the armor doesn't cover.
Full-coverage body armor figured in only one crime I can think of, the North Hollywood shootout, and that one did not end well for the perps.
There are plenty of good arguments for the modern sporting rifle in the self-defense role. Most of them have come up in this thread. I would feel quite well armed with an AR. I would not feel optimally armed, though. For that, I'd want a shotgun.
It's obvious not everyone agrees! That's just the way the question works out for me. Fashions change, not always for the better. A good consequence of the shotgun's decline in popularity: I got a PD trade-in Mossie riot gun very cheaply, cleaned the excessive oil and the donut crumbs out of it and it's become a favorite.
I did some research for an article. Just a digest of salient points:
Most shots fired in anger miss.
Nearly all justifiable shootings are at short or very short range.
The shotgun has a higher hit probability than any other personal weapon, within its range limitations.
Even the wimpiest body armor will stop buckshot. But the shotgun gives you a chance to target, and hit, the parts of the assailant that the armor doesn't cover.
Full-coverage body armor figured in only one crime I can think of, the North Hollywood shootout, and that one did not end well for the perps.
There are plenty of good arguments for the modern sporting rifle in the self-defense role. Most of them have come up in this thread. I would feel quite well armed with an AR. I would not feel optimally armed, though. For that, I'd want a shotgun.
It's obvious not everyone agrees! That's just the way the question works out for me. Fashions change, not always for the better. A good consequence of the shotgun's decline in popularity: I got a PD trade-in Mossie riot gun very cheaply, cleaned the excessive oil and the donut crumbs out of it and it's become a favorite.
LeonCarr
Member
All of those are excellent points Kendall. 25 yards and in the shotgun is the king.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
huntsman
Member
I'll see your 25 yards and raise it 25 more
50 yards in low light with concealing cover, could it be tactical training? Nah just deer hunting in the woods. Many a Whitetail have fallen to a simple smoothbore shotgun with inferior slugs.
Gear matters up to a point as does skill but flexibility IMHO is what a shotgun excels at, so I could never understand the notion making a shotgun a specialty tool.
50 yards in low light with concealing cover, could it be tactical training? Nah just deer hunting in the woods.
Many a Whitetail have fallen to a simple smoothbore shotgun with inferior slugs.Gear matters up to a point as does skill but flexibility IMHO is what a shotgun excels at, so I could never understand the notion making a shotgun a specialty tool.
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