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Confessions Of An 18 Year Old Liberal

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Hoplophile, Jan 1, 2008.

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  1. GILROY

    GILROY Member

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    Interesting self revelation. No need to totally commit to be either liberal or conservative. Just take what makes sense to you from both sides and be your own man. Thats what I did and I don't call myself either one in general. I have voted Republican at times and Dem at times. Both ends of the spectrum have some stupidity that needs to be rejected in my thinking. Sounds like you are stepping into true manhood. Congrats.
     
  2. bluestarlizzard

    bluestarlizzard Member

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    congrats on taking that step from what you knew as a child to what you've seen and understood as an adult. welcome. and sure if you live in VA, i'll let you shoot. you have to buy the ammo though *grin*
     
  3. Arkie

    Arkie Member

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    Hoplophile,,, Well I'm glad that you found a place where you can talk about the things that your family have been hiding from you for so long and telling you that they are baaaaad (sorry just had to do that). LOL.

    Anyway, I know a few people that still thinks they are living in a perfect world and cannot see the Real world as we know it to be.

    And I know if you live anywhere close to people on this site, they would be glad to spend some plinking time with ya. It's fun and you would really enjoy it. Course you would have to explain that goofy grin on your face after the range trip. I still do that with a new toy. LOL.
     
  4. Foosinho

    Foosinho Member

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    Truth. And said far better than my terrible attempt above.

    I'd like to point out that for a lot of anti-gun people, it's the fact that guns are dangerous that they focus on. The fear comes from the fact that a lot of people - even people with significant experience with guns - don't know how to properly handle firearms. If you don't know anything about how to safely handle a gun, and you see - personally or in news stories - where people who should know what they are doing have negligent discharges... the conclusion most people would come to is obvious.

    My brother-in-law, for example, has been around guns his entire life and doesn't seem to know enough to keep his trigger finger off the gun until he has a sight picture and is ready to shoot. In other words, his booger hook is on the bang switch constantly. He's a negligent discharge waiting to happen. Until recently - when I took a basic pistol class and acquired my own pistol - I haven't felt like I had the authority to chastise him about it even tho I knew better... I didn't even know how to operate a handgun other than "pull trigger go boom". I couldn't make a gun handed to me safe.

    The secret is education, not acrimony. The more people know, the less afraid they will be of an admittedly dangerous item.

    I meant to address this earlier, but I'm watching the Rose Bowl on the old PVR, and got distracted. This is most definitely untrue - you are confusing "false invincibility" (like what teenagers have) with not being afraid of a statistical improbability. The fact of the matter is that if you practice good OpSec and don't run with a bad crowd, the odds of being a victim in a violent crime are quite low. The overwhelming majority of murders are by people known by the victim. Only 14% of all homicides involve strangers. Your odds of dying this year in a "random" violent crime are roughly 150000 to 1. Your odds of dying in a transportation accident are 77 to 1. I bet if you avoid risky behavior, those odds get a lot longer.

    Of course, that doesn't talk to any possible deterrent effect a largely armed populace might have. Making armed robbery more dangerous might have an effect on reducing it, but AFAIK we don't have any statistics on that - just a lot of platitudes.

    So while I have my CCL, I don't know that I'll actually carry all that much - and not just because it's a felony to carry to work. The argument that it'd really suck to need it and not have it is pretty compelling, tho. I do believe in being prepared for emergencies. :)
     
  5. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

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    Welcome to The High Road, Hoplophile. I'll suggest that you continue thinking for yourself, although what you've written shows that you don't need my invitation to do that.

    Please accept it anyway, as an affirmation. :cool:
     
  6. Foosinho

    Foosinho Member

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    Oh, and I would also like to agree with the suggestion of getting some training. I recently took a 12 hour basic pistol class that included range time with pistols supplied by the trainers. I learned safe operation and handling of revolvers and semiautos. Of course, I already knew the "4 rules" from shooting .22lr when I was a kid in Boy Scouts back in the '80s. But the class was well worth the time and money, and was quite enjoyable. I think everybody should get regular training. Even "old salts".
     
  7. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Let's be real here. I know this isn't a "political forum" so I'll try be short and to the point. You are how you vote. I don't claim to know how you vote OP, nor do I know how anyone else on THR votes, liberals included. But your vote is really the only real impact you have on law. You can say you support his and that, but until you vote for a candidate who agrees with you, it's meaningless. Of course it's not written in stone, but it's pretty clear that "liberals" vote for one party and "conservatives" tend to vote for the other. So I'll just say this: look at how you vote, and who you vote for. Are they for gun rights? Are they beholden to gun owners or antis? Be honest, because if you say you support gun rights, but vote for someone who doesn't even have to act like they support gun rights too, you really don't.

    I don't mean to single anyone out, or be confrontational. Just pointing something out.
     
  8. flashman70

    flashman70 Member

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    "Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

    Pacifists and liberals forget the above at their peril - and ours.
     
  9. duck911

    duck911 Member

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    Unfortunately, in today's world I feel that party ALWAYS, ALWAYS trumps the individual, and accordingly, I vote conservative.

    Am I 100% conservative? No. I have some (minor) liberal tendancies in a couple of areas, and some liberal candidates may actually have some platform ideals that fit with these beliefs of mine.

    But by in large I am conservative in nature, and there is simply too much to lose by voting outside of party lines.

    So, I vote with conservatism in mind to make the biggest impact I can overall, and beyond that live my life and raise my kids based on my gut and my heart.

    I guess it boils down to this: punch the tab based on the best bang for the buck, and beyond that be your OWN MAN.
     
  10. Hoplophile

    Hoplophile Member

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    Thanks for all the welcomes. I see nobody's cocking their shotguns, spitting in a bucket, and saying "We don't like your kind, 'round 'ere.". As I read more, I really can't fathom how people support limitations on firearm ownership. I don't understand it. It really makes no sense at all.

    But aren't WE supposed to be the irrational ones, warmongering and waving our guns about? Stereotypes are amusing, I suppose.

    I guess I'm also wondering how the community will change now that I've found it. Did I come in at the tail end of it, just to watch it be crushed by people my age as they come into power? What will happen to this right as I age? Is it more appropriate to call it a right or a freedom? Rights are granted to us, be it by the government, nature, or a contract. Freedoms are an intrinsic part of us, I think.

    I hope my friends have the same epiphany I did. Maybe it'll make them safer, and if it helps them repeal some of the unfair legislation I've read about, maybe it'll make all of us safer, too. It's nice to have a freedom that I don't have to sacrifice for safety, a freedom that just gives me safety. Best of both worlds.

    As for where I live, I currently reside in Tampa, FL.
     
  11. bluestarlizzard

    bluestarlizzard Member

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    hoplophile, you will not see the second amendment crushed by we of this younger generation, for we fight for it as well.
    once again, welcolme.
     
  12. Foosinho

    Foosinho Member

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    What a steaming load. There are lots of other issues besides "gun rights" that factor into the equation when deciding who to vote for. The odds are low of finding a candidate that matches your views 100% - so you have to do the best you can. Trying to browbeat people by saying they don't support "gun rights" because they aren't single-issue voters is ridiculous. I, for one, don't appreciate other people trying to tell me what I "really believe." It's rude.

    My liberal Democratic governor has a A+ rating from the NRA. But even if he didn't, I would have still voted for him without hesitation because he was so much superior to the GOP candidate on virtually every other issue that matters to me.

    Hey, duck911 - we need a better system than plurality voting. Like IRV. Encourage a larger number of parties and more diversity in candidate positions.
     
  13. politicalgeek

    politicalgeek Member

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    Hop-Check out the link I posted for you...you would be surprised how many of our generation are passionate about RKBA.
     
  14. Foosinho

    Foosinho Member

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    Sure it does. Read the 2nd Amendment, then read the Supreme Court caselaw. It's pretty well agreed upon (by the courts, anyway) that the 2A does not mean guns should be treated like ice cream. So the question becomes - what is reasonable and constitutional? Personally, I'd like to see less focus on regulating gun features - and more focus on regulating owner training. The 2A, after all, is there to allow for a competent citizenry for a "well regulated militia". To me, that implies training. The Swiss system of national service is kind of appealing to me. Pretty much everyone learns gun safety - and thus guns are not something to be feared, but something to be respected. Plus, they've got a huge militia than can be made ready on short notice... virtually the entire population. And they have low gun crime rates because they do such a good job keeping guns out of the hands of those with ill intentions.

    BTW, while few people believe guns should be outlawed, more than 9/10s of Americans believe gun regulation is reasonable (and as I pointed out, the SC says it's constitutional). And a majority (75%? - I can't recall the percentages) support individual gun ownership. That implies a large overlap in between people who support gun ownership and people who support gun regulation. IOW, lots of people support "limitations on gun ownership". Including the courts.
     
  15. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The question to ask is how private ownership of firearms came to be considered a value of conservatives in the first place. Makes no sense. The right to self defense by the best means possible is a human right, period. How it came to be a politically divisive issue is beyond me.

    But welcome aboard, and I think I speak for us all when I say I'm glad you see the world for what it is without having to suffer first. Hopefully this enlightenment will actually prevent you from ever being a victim.
     
  16. DaveBeal

    DaveBeal Member

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    Exactly. Thanks for saying this, Foosinho.
     
  17. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    I have to say that this self righteous statement just about made me :barf:

    Liberals are all about using the power of government and law to take resources away from one group of people that they don't like (or need) in order to give them away (or promise to give them away) to a different group of people who they do like (or need)....

    they do this NOT out of a selfless motive, but rather they secure for themselves a place of power as the "special ones" who can open up the cookie jar to you if you bow down and kiss their arses.

    from this position of power they secure both wealth, postision and status for themselves and their postarity......

    and again...they do this, NOT by the merits of their own labors or smart ideas, but rather by leveraging the political process to take away from one group and give to another.

    :barf::barf::barf:

    the reason the right of INDIVIDUALS to keep and bare arms is a "conservative" issue is because this is the only obsitcle to a government filled with liberal takers from shooting for the moon in their power/money grabbing schemes.

    the founding fathers knew all to well about living under a government of takers and they secured the right for individuals to keep and bare arms for a very good reason....

    NOT to harvest game
    NOT to chase off criminals

    But to secure a certain level of "real" power, by which the civilian population could, if need be, resist governmet tyrany.

    Hoplophile....if you really want to upset the members of your liberal community, read the constitution and the rwritings of the founding fathers and become a student of history.
     
  18. Vermont

    Vermont Member

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    Yes

    I disagree. There are many issues to base your vote on and in the end you only get to pick one candidate for the job. I will not vote for a schmuck just because he supports gun rights. There are many ways to support gun rights. You can support gun rights by becoming a member of GOA or the NRA, or by writing letters to your representatives in the state and federal legislature. You can talk to your friends and take them to the range.

    Hoplophile, I don't know if you have the same issue as me, but I am a relatively new supporter of gun rights and I am struggling to find candidates to support. It is a little easier at the state level, because many Vermont politicians support gun rights whether they are Democrat, Republican, Progressive, or Independent. On the national level it is a lot harder. Take all the issues that are important to you into consideration. I'm sure you'll make a wise choice. I hope the choice is easier for you than it is for me.
     
  19. gego

    gego Member

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    Repression of thoughts has a tendency to backfire. The more severe the repression the greater the danger that an obsession can be created.

    Look at guys like Jimmy Swaggart and the way his childhood sexual repression erupted into aberrant sexual behavior as an adult. Hell, he even thought it was better to claim that he just choked the chicken while watching a prostitute dance on the dresser than to admit to having sex with her. I bet a dime to a dollar that Bill Clinton's sex problem is related to childhood repression.

    The two predominant repressions are violence and sexuality. As Hoplophile said, he became obsessed with guns which had been the focus of his childhood repression against violence. That sure was a heavy trip for his parents to lay on him as a child in their care.

    Looks like he has managed to understand guns and their place in society with his intellect; too bad so many of the anti gun crowd are yet to take such an intellectual journey.
     
  20. Tyris

    Tyris member

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    That has to be the funniest thing I've seen all week! :evil: Not only delusional about firearms, liberal to no end, but also racist underpinnings!! :evil: Hilarious!

    Weren't they shocked that they were not raped and killed from here till tuesday??

    Do you mind if I ask where this was?

    -T
     
  21. Foosinho

    Foosinho Member

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    You got me - I, like most liberals, support gay rights because it furthers our agenda to oppress straight people. It's the same reason we supported the civil rights movement. And women's sufferage. And abolition. And equality of opportunity. :rolleyes: It's right there in FDR's "Four Freedoms".

    Taxes exist ostensibly to pay for our government, which provides services to the benefit of the community. Believe it or not, reduction of poverty (and reduction of wealth disparity) is in the community's best interest - it reduces crime. I may take issue with the how, but not the "why".

    This is getting pretty off-topic, tho. I just wanted to remind the OP to remember his roots while he experiences new communities. 18 year olds can have some crazy ideas that seem to make a heck of a lot of sense at the time (I know I did - I flirted with free-market left-libertarianism before taking a closer look at how markets really work and regaining my senses... and supporting regulated markets).
     
  22. AlaskaErik

    AlaskaErik Member

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    You are to be commended for your willingness to open your eyes and move outside your comfort zone to understand what others say and believe.
     
  23. bluestarlizzard

    bluestarlizzard Member

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    SSN VET

    i think your confusing the idea of libreal values with libreal gun grabbers. as for multiple parties and more choices in canidates, I Hear THAT!!!

    as for this forum and the disscussion at hand. we focus on RKBA. and ideally we support RKBA. but don't forget there are other things in life.

    H, your doing good things. your thinking. i see too many people out in the world who DON'T think and it drives me nuts. keep thinking, keep assessing and most of all, keep learning.
     
  24. Snapping Twig

    Snapping Twig Member

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    Welcome to the party! WHEN you got here is unimportant. THAT you got here is all that matters.

    I too was lied to a in my youth by a similar band of brigands. I suppose that's why I delved into martial arts, firearms and life as did you.

    May your success be continuous. :)
     
  25. duck911

    duck911 Member

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    It's funny how we all have our own ideas of reality.

    As a conservative, I am relatively open-minded when it comes to gay rights, abortion, and bio-conservatism (stem cell research and the like)... sometimes to the frustration of friends and family.

    But as a general rule I simply do NOT believe that the government has a place to dictate who should receive which benifits from a free market. I really, truly believe that a free market - the willingness of smart, motivated people to get ahead in life and prosper - is one of the main reasons we live in the greatest country on earth.

    Someone earlier said:

    Compassion to others should (in my opinion) be defined as "providing an environment where anyone who chooses too, has an opportunity to succeed". Not, "steal from those who took the initiative to succeed to provide for those who were too lazy or inept to do so."

    In fact, along with gun control, this is the one belief of mine that is non-negotiable.

    But, what makes this country great is that your mileage will vary, and most of us respect that even if we don't agree with it.

    Back to the original poster, what I keep hearing here in this thread is, be your own man and make your own decisions, regardless of what the fallout is in your community.
     
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