Conviction for Using Marijuana While in Poss. Of Firearms

[CapnMac]

There are so many laws on the books that it would be impossible for each citizen to know all of them.

The last figure I saw summing it up, claimed that there were from eight (8) to ten (10) thousand laws, regulations, and ordinances impinging on each citizen (with some variance based on location--so rural New York State being slightly less onerous than NYC).

There's a fairly well established notion that most people can hold the gist of 500-750 regulations in general memory. That, on average the limit of detailed knowledge runs to around 250-300; and "quote chapter and verse" will peak a bit north of 100. Or, about two orders of magnitude fewer than are on the books.

If we could resurrect John Adams, our famous lawyer would likely be appalled to learn that US Code spans 53 Titles, with more than 100 Chapters enumerated; that there's a Code of Federal Regulations of similar size & volume; that each of the States will have 50 or more Chapters/Titles in their laws as well.

 

[theotherwaldo]

The last figure I saw summing it up, claimed that there were from eight (8) to ten (10) thousand laws, regulations, and ordinances impinging on each citizen (with some variance based on location--so rural New York State being slightly less onerous than NYC).

There's a fairly well established notion that most people can hold the gist of 500-750 regulations in general memory. That, on average the limit of detailed knowledge runs to around 250-300; and "quote chapter and verse" will peak a bit north of 100. Or, about two orders of magnitude fewer than are on the books.

If we could resurrect John Adams, our famous lawyer would likely be appalled to learn that US Code spans 53 Titles, with more than 100 Chapters enumerated; that there's a Code of Federal Regulations of similar size & volume; that each of the States will have 50 or more Chapters/Titles in their laws as well.

Yep.
My previous library had a separate reference section that primarily held binders full of the current local, state and federal laws, rules and regulations.
It was a major task to keep this collection reasonably current.
Also, it took up a lot of space.

Luckily, the library had space to waste.
It started out as a Wal-Mart.

 

[shafter]

Lots of people committing federal offenses related to Marijuana and firearms. Lots of people playing with fire. I've seen local law enforcement refer cases to the feds due to it being out of their jurisdiction.

Probably not the top priority for any law enforcement but all it takes its a car crash where you've got guns and weed and you could potentially be in for it.

 

[dogtown tom]

DOJ/ATF by direction of Biden has weaponized the FBI NCIC for gun purchases.

Not true. Biden on his own has done absolutely nothing other than tell ATF and the FBI to do their jobs and follow existing federal law.
And it isn't NCIC, but NICS. Nitpicky yes.

The NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022 now requires FBI NICS to notify local law enforcement when a NICS background check results in a denial. Joe Biden didn't invent that law, Congress did.

If you answer YES on question 21-e. on the ATF Form 4473 for pot/drug use you will be disapproved.

NICS won't disapprove the buyer because they'll never get the chance. Answering "yes" to a prohibited person question means the dealer simply cancels the transaction and doesn't even bother running the FBI NICS check.

Also, they may even go as far to check if you have a medical card for pot use and then arrest you for lying on a federal form.

If ATF or other LE is checking your name vs a list of medical marijuana card holders vs millions of Form 4473's you aren't going to be arrested simply for lying on a federal form. They would be investigating you for other crimes and that's just one more to pile on to get you to plead out.

 

[old lady new shooter]

The last figure I saw summing it up, claimed that there were from eight (8) to ten (10) thousand laws, regulations, and ordinances impinging on each citizen (with some variance based on location--so rural New York State being slightly less onerous than NYC).

There's a fairly well established notion that most people can hold the gist of 500-750 regulations in general memory. That, on average the limit of detailed knowledge runs to around 250-300; and "quote chapter and verse" will peak a bit north of 100. Or, about two orders of magnitude fewer than are on the books.

If we could resurrect John Adams, our famous lawyer would likely be appalled to learn that US Code spans 53 Titles, with more than 100 Chapters enumerated; that there's a Code of Federal Regulations of similar size & volume; that each of the States will have 50 or more Chapters/Titles in their laws as well.

Not to mention the CHANGES to the law. The last tax reform act before I got out of that field was TRA 86, ~1000 pages of fine print.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Yep.
My previous library had a separate reference section that primarily held binders full of the current local, state and federal laws, rules and regulations.
It was a major task to keep this collection reasonably current.
Also, it took up a lot of space.

Luckily, the library had space to waste.
It started out as a Wal-Mart.

I had an employee whose job it was to keep everything updated.

 

[orionengnr]

This is not the America I grew up in.
For the first time in my 66 years, I am actually considering retiring outside the US.
The only question is...where?
Discouraging.

 

[tommy.duncan]

Most people break laws that are well known. Speed limits, for example. Point is, a person who smokes pot but is otherwise law abiding could still, IMO, be considered to be generally law abiding, much like someone who breaks speed limits but is otherwise law abiding.

It doesn't ask in you are a habitual speeder on the 4473.
I understand what you say but, until the federal govt changes the law you are still disqualified.

 

[CapnMac]

This is not some recent AFT invention, either.
18 USC 922 (d) (3) (emphasis added):

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person, including as a juvenile—
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) is a fugitive from justice;
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the
Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

So, this has been the law since 1969, a half century now.

But, there are thousands of potential felonies out there. Millions of citizens, and only thousands of g-men and LEO out there. People are not hauled in for any/every felony they commit (or are alleged to commit). Taking a live plant across State lines without a Permit is a felony. Take a potted plant across the river from one KC to the other, wham. Drive from one side of Texarcana to the other, ditto. Congress is a law-making body--the only thing they can do is make more laws. Are they required to also figure out how to enforce those laws? Not so much.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Yep.
It is impossible to be entirely law-abiding because some laws are contradicted by other laws.
Then comes selective enforcement.,, ,

 

[old lady new shooter]

This is not the America I grew up in.
For the first time in my 66 years, I am actually considering retiring outside the US.
The only question is...where?
Discouraging.

Make a list of all your requirements and then start your research. One important point will be whether non-citizens are allowed to own and bear firearms.

 

[gunmechanic]

It is very sad what happand with the child and yes the parent was not in control of the firearms .But the federal government is weaponizing these agencies , this party and there ideologies in my opinion are tearing our country apart and i think it is all by design, there design.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...There's a fairly well established notion that most people can hold the gist of 500-750 regulations in general memory...

Even that seems superhuman.

 

[jmorris]

There would have to be fewer laws. They can't throw everyone in prison every time they break the law. Who would be outside the prison to arrest anybody?

That would be fine by me. I believe laws that are not enforced should expire. The way it is now “they” just get to selectively enforce them giving everyone they favor a pass and throw the book at the ones they dislike.



The opposite of equal, in other words.

 

[Howland937]

I can't find the link to the case now, but a few years ago a couple of illegals had been arrested and charged after stealing firearms and ammo from a chain sporting goods store. They'd done it once before but got caught the second time. A loaded firearm that was reported stolen in the first incident was found in their vehicle along with meth(?)

The federal firearm+drug charges were ultimately either dropped or the conviction was overturned on appeal due to how "unlawful user" is phrased. It was determined that there's no threshold specified for what amount is "unlawful" to use. Someone answering that they're not an unlawful user on a 4473 could be argued the same way...especially if they're in a state that says it's OK.

 

[Robert]

The law is what the law is, and until it changes our opinion don't matter. THR will always advocate for adherence to the law and seeking legal ways to change the law.