Cops at the gun club

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ebd10

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I just joined a gun club tonight. At the meeting, they revealed a plan in which they are going to dedicate a portion of the club's property to Law enforcement for their qualification/training.

The Pro people say that it's a goodwill gesture that will have the added benefit of keeping the local municipal government off of our backs about noise pollution, etc.

The Con people say that, eventually, the portion of the club that LE uses will become like a trash heap and the club will suffer the consequences. Likewise should there be a negligent discharge from one of the LEO's weapons that does any damage to any property, domiciles around the club.

Has anyone had any experience with this sort of scenario? I'd like to know what you've seen or experienced when your club allows the local LE Agency utiliuze the ranges.
 
Let them take a lane like anyone else. No sense reserving valuable lane space for cops that may or may not occupy the lanes at any given time. If it is like any of the places with reserved LEO areas that I have shot at, they are empty 90 percent of the time.
 
Not sure what your range facilities are like. The two clubs I belonged to in CA had extensive use of the range by LE. They used the "combat" competition areas, as well as the general public shooting lines. The public lines, if being used for something other than regular target shooting, were used during off-hours for the range (range open Thurs-Mon). The competition areas were reserved on certain days, just like other events did. (Individual competitors/LEOs could check out the competition ranges if no activity was scheduled as well.) Not really a problem. If the LEOs start to trash the place up, it shouldn't be a problem to communicate with whomever is in charge of these officers to put in a reminder for general courtesy. Never a big problem, though some were envious of some of the competitive shooters' equipment and skills. :)
 
Get a WRITTEN agreement/contract....

Whether you dontate the space, or just give a discount, get down on paper EXACTLY what each parties priviledges and responsibilities are.
 
DO IT!
A club I used to belong to had 3 days out of the year reservedfor the local PD, Sheriff's dept, and swat team to practice with the possibility of extra days if needed. They usually held their qulifications/practice during the day on weekdays when very few people would be using the range anyhow.

One huge upside other than than the positive publicity is that they will probably leave heaps of .38 , 9mm, and .40 S&W brass on the range. On the range I used to belong to, guys would line up with coffee cans and buckets like kids going on an easter egg hunt waiting for the range to close.:)
 
Quit pro quo, or no go.

Most "goodwill gestures" go unappreciated, and you end up giving away something valuable and getting screwed anyway. Police ranges are seldom any safer from NIMBY suburbanites than others.

This could be different in your area. But I'd get something in writing.
 
How would the range handle property damage by a regular member?
Any range I attend is used by either cops or military,I usually feel I'm in good company!
 
LE discounts, etc. are different.

They seem to be talking about just giving away the use of part of their property on the assumption that this will be appreciated. It won't. Nobody appreciates something they're given for free.
 
You wont win any points with the government. Liberals secretly hate cops nearly as much as they hate gun ranges. Depriving law enforcement of a training space is gonna be a nice bonus for closing your range in their eyes.

I dont see any harm in it though, but I see no reason why you shouldnt charge them for use of the land. Your not likely to get any favors in return, and goodwill doesnt last very long.
 
Right, charge for the space. Maybe a discount. Anything free becomes an entitlement which will be your burden. The normal wear and tear is still taking place so replacement cost at least should be paid.

Vick
 
I say you give the LEOs a chance. If they end up messing up the flow of the club, then give them the boot. If they end up being a great asset for the club, then you'll be glad it happened. You can forge some very valuable alliances by showing a little kindness....
 
SomeKid, who said anything about the cops being Gods?

I think the issue was setting aside a part of the range for law enforcement use. Actually many of the ranges I go to are that way. No problems at all...
 
One good trade that could be worked out is if the your club has fundraisers that might need security. The club I used to belong to always had a yearly gunshow in the middle of the city in a community center. One year there were a few too many city board members and they demanded that if the club were to have the yearly gunshow again, they must provide security in the form of paying a 1/2 dozen off duty cops overtime to secure the gunshow. It sounds stupid, but never underestimate the depths that an antigunner will go to undermine you. Ifyou have a similar situation where security is needed for a fundraiser such as a raffle, a dance, a pigroast, a gunshow, etc, work out a deal where the police department will provide security for the event in exchange for use of the range.
 
I think it's a reasonable idea, as it provides the club with tangible leverage with the town. Tangible, in the sense that you can actually show on a spreadsheet how much money you're saving the town, in addition to the other intangibles.

A lot of people don't appreciate how vulnerable gun clubs are. All it takes is one or two GFWs bending the ear of the town council to cause endless mayhem.

I can't prove it in a court of law, but it seems that during the Clinton era, the attacks on gun clubs via town councils through any number of pretenses were systematically orchestrated.
 
Free basic memberships for cops. Also, see what improvements their instructors would like to the facility as a whole to faciltate training. Make sure the place gets a sign too - "Acmeville PD Training Facility."

Safety, safety, safety. Let their instructors and the brass know that you expect the cops to be safe AND courteous. If, after that, you get an incredulous look, push back. That is non-negotiable. The members aren't going to be engaging in bs horseplay, etc., and the police definitely shouldn't.

Don't reserve any lanes or area, but if they want to do "clear the bad guy out of the car" scenarios, then you can probably figure that part out. Flexibility is good.
 
could be good

My local range in Rockville, MD, is privately-owned range (open to the public) that has allowed the local PD to use its facilities either free of charge or close to it. From what I can tell, it has been beneficial to the non-LEO users of the range.

The upside is that the LEO's get exposed to just how many people in the most anti-gun-owner county in an anti-gun-owner state actually own and safely use firearms. Despite what Doug Duncan and Chief Manger are telling them, the LEO's can personally see that MD firearms owners are just plain regular people, some highly educated, some pretty wealthy, and very few fit the wild-eyed stereotype that MD gun grabbers like to promote. The same LEO's often hang out at the counter and listen to the range visitors and range employees gripe about MD's stupid laws, and even "stupider" proposed laws, and most importantly, WHY they are stupid laws. I think this exposure is important. Both communities (LEO and firearms owners) tend to be circle-the-wagon types that could actually use some more positive interaction.
 
One of the ranges I am a member of has lots of LE use. From my experience trash or safety won't be a problem. LE use is mostly thru the weekdays, where I shoot. Once in a while there is a conflict with range schedules. It is by appointment and if no one has reserved the range in advance then it is members first come first served. I have been asked to move even though the RO didn't show reservation. A couple of time they were told no reservation no move by the RO so get a policy and stick to it. My wife works with one group of LEOs that use the range so I have to act correctly and only shoot guns she has seen. :evil: Usually it isn't a problem but sometimes with Chrono setup and all it is a pain and takes away from my limited time. Also a range that has a charcoal grill and some picnic stuff helps as LE tend to stay longer than the average group. Charge them even a small fee it is harder to start to charge if it was 100% free at first and the range will incurr some cost. Some will sign up for membership so that is a plus. Noise will increase with the type of mass firing LE does if it is marginal now then watch out. Good Luck :)
 
Our range contracts with our city PD. We built an observation tower for their use only. The lease provides income for the club. It's a good deal for both sides.
 
Range use

My Club, Mansfield Fish and Game in Massachusetts, lets the local police department use its facilities for training and qualification. They do their taining once a month or so, and we reserve range time for them, even if a few regular members have to wait to use the 100 yard range or pistol range.

I've found it a good way to meet local officers. It's a friendly situation. Some of the police have joined our club, and the ones I know are above average shooters with an interest in keeping their skills. When they come to the club on off days, you wouldn't even know they were police for the most part.

Early on, when we were lending the range to them, we had some trash problems. We then required one of their sergeants who was already a member of our club, to be present and to be responible for the use of the range. I don't think we ever had a problem after that, and now several members from the department are in the club.

I don't know if it does much for good will with the town, we've been trying to get approval for an indoor range for about ten years, and haven't got it yet, but I don't think that's the fault of the police department, more like zoning board and building inspector.

As for the easter egg hunt for brass, that true for sure, they leave a lot of brass, even gather it and give it to us. They seem like nice guys for the most part, and other than a little inconvience once in awhile, which is no more than when we hold training classes for newbies, it doesn't cause a problem with the use of the range.

We also have members from other police departments from around the area. They don't bring their departments with them, but I find them to be seriious shooters too. We also let the Boy Scouts use the range.

I'd rather have the cops in town well trained, and using my range, than not to be, and kept out just because they are cops. What's the point?
 
Why do they think they would be any more likely to leave a mess or be less safe than anyone else using the range?

I also think that it wouldn't be appropriate to do on the basis of expecting preferential treatment on noise complaints, etc.
 
One of the people speaking at the meeting last night was the Firearms Training Officer of one of the LE agencies that would be using the range. His assertion was that the cops he encounters are not shooters. They don't go to the range because they want to, they do it because they have to. He told us that they don't care if they kick up dust during a benchrest match, they don't obey the speed limit on the club property, and they won't clean up after themselves. He has been a FTO for 11 years and said the best thing to do was to force the city or state to get their own regional facility.

My own experience in working at indoor ranges, and belonging to other clubs that allowed LE to use the facility reflected his opinion. At the club, we just cleaned up during a workday and called it good. Many of the LEO's that came to the club for training ended up being members and "policed" their own.

I'm still undecided, but I have to admit that telling the cops to get their own facility makes the most sense to me. The property in question could be used for other things more beneficial to the club. As for the rest of it, I don't mind cleaning up the range, and I expect that the cops would eventually join up so as to be able to use the rest of the club.
 
Make sure to get in writing that the last word on what is "safe" and "acceptable" bahavior is always determined by your club's range officers.

I used to shoot at a shared range, and every once in a while some policeman would go strolling down the line taking over the job of "impromptu range officer", without being asked, and with totally different views on how civilians should/should-not be practicing.

It wasn't exactly pleasant, and arguments (sometimes heated) resulted.
 
The range I used to belong to in Virginia had a similar program. For the most part, the cops were nice and cleaned up after themselves. I don't think they had a set time that was for them, but they were usually there mid day when most people were working and only a couple college kids and old folks were there, so there was plenty of room for everyone. Several of the cops eventually joined and started paying dues.

I don't know how much it helped the range politically, but when the cops would stop by for a noisy party it sure was nice to say "Hey, don't you shoot at my range?"
 
If you do this, make sure that the liability situation is addressed in writing. Ther have been a couple of accidental shootings in area ranges here and they involved police officers training, who were not following the rules that the rest of us civilians have to follow. Important safety rules.

They need to have their own insurance and they need to sign a legal agreement drawn up by a lawyer, holding you the club and its members harmless for any accidents they may have, or any damage they may cause.

If your club is like mine we have bond holders who are owners of the club and can be collectively sued by anyone injured on club premisses, or any damage caused by bullets that may leave the range.

I would also specifically denote the range safety rules they must follow violations will result in remmoval from the club and a ban on further shooting there by violators. I would also specifically denote allowable training times for them so there is no confusion.

Lastly i would mandate a financial contribution to the club and an obligation to do range maintenance.
 
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