Cost Effective source for lead casting?

[armoredman]

If you want to do that, more power to you and have a great time. I dislike digging in the dirt to scrounge metal as well, and wouldn't do it as I don't find it time efficient to what other things I want to do as well, which is why I find other sources for my lead. I also lack the equipment to properly smelt lead. However, my time cost doesn't enter in to it, as that time is not earning me money or costing me money in any way. That was my point. How anyone wants to spend time on their hobbies is however they want to spend time, like when I binge watched Black Sails for a week.

 

[snakeye]

Holy crap guys don't we get enough of this dialog on threads on the best caliber bullets or the best presses to use without dragging in someone's ideas about what their time is worth on a hobby

 

[2011redrider]

So, someone school me on mixing lead, tin, and antimony. I found a site that will ship lead in flat rate boxes, so I can buy it for about $4/lb delivered. But it's 99.9% pure, BH 5. So I'd have to find antimony and tin someplace to harden it.

Go look at Cast Boolit forum, I just bought 60 lbs in muffin ingots of WW lead for 69, seller has it on a regular basis, There is another seller who sells for 60 plus 13.40 for the Med Flat Rate Box. PM me if you want the seller(s) info. 4 bucks a lb for pure lead is 4x the going rate.

 

[CLP]

Ok- here's the deal-e-o:

1. Rotometals is the go to online source for casting alloy. You can get a wide assortment of alloys from pure lead to antimonal lead. You can also get pure tin there too. I wait for major holiday sales. I usually get 10-12% off their typical price. S&H is free (at least when you order enough and I've ordered enough that the USPS guy hates me). Based on what you're currently paying, you should be able to cut your expense by half, if not more. Be patient and wait for the sales. Hit that site at every sale and get just enough for the free S&H. After a few years, you'll have half a ton of lead- at least that's how it turned out for me. Do consider how you will store this. Initially I kept it on my reloading bench shelves. My bench is sturdy. One day, I noticed how the 2x4 frame had developed a bow. I then bought a US made steel shelf that could support 1000# per shelf. I'm using two of the four shelves now just for lead. However, I have to place 3/8" ply on each shelf to spread the load or else there'll still be depressions where the lead sits. Unless you're stacking it on a concrete floor, you won't be stacking it high. Get it right the first time, moving lead sucks. My wife and I welcomed our firstborn home 7 months ago. I went through every ingot and piece of scrap lead and either bagged them in ziplock bags or old coffee cans lest my little one decided he wanted to see what that grey block tastes like.
2. Wheel weights. Forget the tire stores, except for maybe some odd independents. Zinc WWs have taken over and it's not likely that you'll ever see enough lead WWs to make a trip to your tire store worth while. I've tried at least a dozen places. Surprisingly, most of the guys gave me puzzled looks. I guess some people don't know that you can melt lead and cast it into bullets. Or else they were wondering what decade I thought I was in. I've been invited to search a number of 5 gallon buckets and they're mostly zinc. Many still have these stick-on lead weights but they're so small and there's so much garbage to sort that I didn't find it was worth my time. And I believe some tire shops are contracted to only sell/give their WWs to recyclers. However, wheel weights aren't out of the question. I've purchased a large amount via eBay on a couple of occasions- mostly to see if it was a viable option. Pricing was good but not anywhere near as good as the old timers who tell stories of going into tire shops and leaving with hundreds of pounds of wheel weights for two bits. Another more viable option is going to a scrap yard. Before you do, compile a list of scrap yards in a radius which you're willing to travel and then call them up. Ask if they sell scrap lead to make trot line sinkers. Many scrap yards around me don't sell to the public. However, one does and it's located on the way to my parents, so whenever I go home to visit I make it a point to swing by there. They can negotiate on price too. The last time I went, I asked for all of their scrap lead. They had 110#. Apparently, I'm not the only guy buying lead since this is a huge scrap yard. The girl behind the register asked how many pounds and the guy with the metal analyzer gun told her and she says blah, blah, blah, "...forty cents a pound", and I exclaimed, "Forty cents?! Last time I was here it was twenty-five cents". And they let me have it for a quarter a pound. Truth is, I'm usually so thrilled to find it I never actually really figured out what I was paying. I knew it was way cheaper than Rotometals pricing but never bothered doing the math. And I don't know where that quick reply about "the last time I was here it was twenty-five cents..." came from either. I don't feel like I've ever been a good negotiator. If they stuck to their guns, I would've paid the forty cents per pound.
3. Range scrap. I belong to a gun club. The hours we're allowed to shoot are between 9a-9p. I asked the club officers for permission to pick up scrap lead on the berms between 730a-9a. As long as I didn't do any digging it was fine. I can't speak for other clubs, but there's some avid shooters at the one I belong to. I like to collect from the range that is used for the black powder silhouette matches. Big fat lead boolits. Go after a rain. The dirt is washed away from a lot of the bullets and they're very easy to see. The last time I did it I kept tabs and I collected 10 pounds of lead bullets in 20 minutes. Bring an empty coffee can

The only thing I cannot find a cheap source of is tin. I think pewter is supposed to be high in tin content but there's apparently some stuff out there that's being passed off as pewter that isn't the traditional composition. Doesn't matter since I have a bunch from Rotometals. My last Rotometals purchase was 100# of Linotype (not their pure cast stuff, but real old school stuff). I kept 50# for myself and gave the other 50# as a Christmas gift. A couple of weeks ago I started melting down some of the WWs and bullets. Melt, skim the scrap steel and copper jackets, flux, skim the dirt/grit, flux again, skim, flux again, cast into ingots and also a few bullets to be used to test the BHN. I haven't tested the BHN from that smelting session. It was approx 50:50 WWs and range scrap. No doubt it's sufficiently hard for my purposes (45 ACP, 38 Spec, and 44 Spec).

Reloading cast bullets can be about economy. Just 8 years ago while I was a medical resident with more school loan debt than most mortgages, I picked up every piece of 45 Auto brass I could find. Loading 45 ACP with a Lee hand press with cast 235 gr RN boolits from scrap lead makes for very cheap shooting. The reality of it is that I enjoy the casting aspect. I enjoy the hunt of finding cheap lead. And I enjoy picking up free brass. Even still to this day, long after I no longer have to worry about the economics of it all.
When I opened my practice, the first location I considered renting was a former family docs office. I toured it and my eyes got huge when I saw what a huge X-ray room the guy had. I envisioned spending my evenings after my clinic closed tearing down barrier walls and removing sheets of thick protective lead (I don't utilize an X-ray as a psychiatrist). Alas, the rent was too high and the layout less than ideal so I passed, but I think of it often.

Cheap lead is out there, you have to hunt for it.

.

 

[FROGO207]

The best way to get tin around here is to buy by 1# roll of plumbers lead free/silver solder at the big box store. The Silver Brite brand is 95% tin and small parts of silver/copper/antimony for the remainder. You can read the composition on the label for the different brands. It hardens up WW lead well. Sometimes I get lazy and buy my bullets already cast/lubed/coated but I have the equipment and supplies to cast for my shooting needs for 8-10 years if things become unavailable for whatever reason. The skills and tools are a great investment whether they are used all the time or not IMHO.

 

[brewer12345]

Haha, pewter is easy. Most of the real stuff is stamped with the word pewter or its foreign language equivalent (zinn in German). Look for the hallmark and buy based on weight. I average 3 to 4 bucks a pound.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, it's a bad idea to get into casting to save money. Casting is best reserved for those who enjoy it and place no value on the time spent doing it. I am a shooter with over 70 revolvers I like to keep warm. I hunt and I accumulate guns. I handload because it's the only way to do the amount of shooting I want to do and so I can use loads unavailable otherwise. I don't do it for fun. It is merely a necessary chore. I would rather drink gasoline and smoke poison ivy than cast bullets. Time spent scrounging lead, processing lead, casting and lubing or powdercoating bullets is time I'd rather spend doing something else. Like shooting, leatherwork, reading a good book or watching paint dry. The space needed for casting equipment and lead storage is space I'd rather use for something else. At this point in my life, I have lot more money than time so if I can save all those hours of work by buying $50 worth of cast bullets, that's what I'll do.

Moreover, casters also seem to love to tinker. So much so that they tend to find endless minute details to unnecessarily obsess over. Which is fine, if that's what you like to do but it ain't for everybody and you're not doing it to save money.

What do you charge yourself when you are on vacation? Do you cost out your sleep hours? I see this over and over and over and I have to say - if you are charging yourself for your time, it's NOT a hobby - it's a job. I cast, powder coat, reload, and go shooting on my time. That time WILL BE SPENT, whether I am at the computer watching Netflix, sleeping, bouncing around town, etc. I can't bank it. So I choose to take some of that time, for which I wasn't going to be paid, anyway, and spend it on casting/reloading/shooting.
It's a hobby, not a job. if you wanna get paid, go back to work.

Yes, all time has value, monetary or otherwise. It's up to the individual to decide how it's valued and how much. If you enjoy casting, then that time is well spent. If you don't, it's harder to justify.

 

[brewer12345]

I am still learning on both casting and metallic reloading. I am having fun figuring out things and tinkering, but I can already tell you that once I feel I have mastered the craft sufficiently for my purposes, it will be like shotshell reloading: do it to keep myself supplied. I can do.so at minimal incremental expense and.I.don't have to worry about panics and market fluctuations, so mission accomplished.

So for me, the time and money I spend learning to cast and acquire a stockpile of raw materials is an investment in being able to ensure supply for the rest of my life.

 

[Swampman]

So, I've been looking at buying hardball casting lead ingots for making my own projectiles, and it looks like this is a financially losing proposition. At the cost of lead online, before any shipping charges, it works out to about 86¢ per projectile, based on 240 grn projectiles. ($25 per 6 lb ingot) I can buy pre made and lubed cast bullets for about 15¢ per projectile. (Hunter's Supply.)

Doesn't make sense.

I know my dad used to collect wheel weights from tire shops, for free, but I think those days are mostly gone now. (Few shops even use lead weights anymore; they're mostly magnesium now.)

Is there anyway to make this financially feasible, or are people just doing it for the fun of doing it?

You are correct, casting your own bullets can be a waste of both time and money, just like baking homemade bread, handloading ammo or building your own custom rifle.

The smart move would be to go by tire shops and see if you can get a bunch of those magnesium wheel weights they use in your area. Then just sell the magnesium and buy loaded ammo.

...casters also seem to love to tinker. So much so that they tend to find endless minute details to unnecessarily obsess over...

Quite unlike handloaders in general, who are known for always strictly following "recipes" and who never get bogged down in minutia and tiny details.

 

[jmorris]

On the alloy subject I use bullet weight to let me know when I have it right.

I have a 230 grain bullet mold I can drop a bullet as heavy as 240 grains from it using pure lead or as light as 210 grains using silver solder. Wheel weights drop at 232, mix in a little Linotype and they fall out 230.

Casting was never a “fun” thing for me, just something to be done so I could shoot more for the amount of money I had to spend, without taking up a lot of time.



As for picking up lead at the berm, it’s easy after a decent rain. The lead is right on top, once the rain washes the dirt off and turns white from the oxidation, making it easy to spot. Not picking it up, to me would be like not picking up your brass to reuse it.

 

[mdi]

Your alloy vendor (Roto Metals) is prolly the most expensive source of lead for casting. I have purchased lead from ebay, being careful not to pay over $1.00 per lb., I have also purchased some from vendor/sponsors at castboolits.com at reasonable prices. I would suggest you google "range lead" or "scrap bullets", etc. and you'll find much cheaper alloys than what a foundry will charge...

But I don't cast for cost sake, I like taking old greasy dirty scrap lead, melt it and clean the impurities out, then cast ingots. Then I melt this clean alloy in my casting pot and cast some bullets specifically for a gun I intend to shoot them in. I take those carefully cast bullets and size them to the desired diameter for a particular gun and use either a good purchased lube of one of my home made concoctions. I then load and shoot my perfectly sized, perfectly lubed, custom bullets. Don' git no better then that!

 

[ewlyon]

I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet but RMR has bullet alloy for sale for a pretty good price in both hardball and bullet core levels of hardness. I think i paid about $2/pound last time and it shipped in a flat rate box in very easy to handle 8lb ingots. I use their hardball for pretty much all rifle caliber bullets and have been very pleased with it.

 

[CLP]

I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet but RMR has bullet alloy for sale for a pretty good price in both hardball and bullet core levels of hardness. I think i paid about $2/pound last time and it shipped in a flat rate box in very easy to handle 8lb ingots. I use their hardball for pretty much all rifle caliber bullets and have been very pleased with it.

I didn't know about RMR. I know Missouri Bullet does too and there should be a discount code for THR members- I recall there being an ongoing thread for the code but it's been years since I ordered alloy from them. Besides Rotometals having periodic sales which further improves the economy of casting, their ingots easily fit into both types off Lee bottom pouring pots I have. I had some trouble with MBC's ingots, but it was good alloy.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

My casting equipment and lead supply is only in case I cannot buy bullets (prepping)...Cost is not critical in this scenario...

...I have the equipment and supplies to cast for my shooting needs for 8-10 years if things become unavailable for whatever reason. The skills and tools are a great investment whether they are used all the time or not IMHO.

I think this is what this discussion (for me at least) is coming down to. It seems apparent that casting lead requires more money than buying commercial bullets or more time than I am willing to invest. And that's okay. However, RealGun and Frog raise another issue. I try to be as self sustaining as I can,and I self-identify (to borrow a term from liberal activists) as a prepper. In that context, I still see value in casting one's own projectiles. But even in that scenario, one would have to be accumulating lead now, and today's high prices, and waiting for some market event to make that lead cost effective to turn into projectiles. About the only thing that would make that happen would be legislation banning lead for all shooting purposes. (Not at all out of the realm of possibility-already be done with waterfowl, for everything in California, and the previous administration attempted to do it on all federal lands.)

But even in such a scenario, as lead gets harder to find, it will climb in price. I wonder at what point will we be discussing casting copper?

 

[brewer12345]

I think this is what this discussion (for me at least) is coming down to. It seems apparent that casting lead requires more money than buying commercial bullets or more time than I am willing to invest. And that's okay. However, RealGun and Frog raise another issue. I try to be as self sustaining as I can,and I self-identify (to borrow a term from liberal activists) as a prepper. In that context, I still see value in casting one's own projectiles. But even in that scenario, one would have to be accumulating lead now, and today's high prices, and waiting for some market event to make that lead cost effective to turn into projectiles. About the only thing that would make that happen would be legislation banning lead for all shooting purposes. (Not at all out of the realm of possibility-already be done with waterfowl, for everything in California, and the previous administration attempted to do it on all federal lands.)

But even in such a scenario, as lead gets harder to find, it will climb in price. I wonder at what point will we be discussing casting copper?

Lead is a commodity, an industrial metal with lots of uses. It occurs very commonly in the earth's crust and is easily and frequently recycled. Can the price go up? Sure, like all commodities it flops around all the time. Will it cease to be readily available? Nope. I would say the risk is that the gun grabbers succeed in outlawing the use of lead. In the meantime, I plan to keep casting, loading and shooting. Like I said, I can make whatever kind of .358 projectile I like for under .03 each and the savings become really attractive when you start casting bullets for things like 35 Remington and .30-06. I have piled up a small, but significant stockpile of raw materials such that I can weather a long dry spell if necessary. Independent supply is important to me as is the know how.

 

[jeeptim]

Mr.Cooper wish I would have seen your post sooner.
Went to the scrap yard today bought 50 1lb solder bars 50%lead 50%tin dollar each and just passed half on to another caster.
Solder a very good soure of tin.
Linotype is really good but getting hard to find. Rotometals is aweome really good people. It' not far from where I live so two three times a year I stop in and pick up a lil super hard.
Best of luck.

 

[jmorris]

It seems apparent that casting lead requires more money than buying commercial bullets or more time than I am willing to invest.

That’s always possible. Lots of folks see reloading in general the same way. For that matter just shooting on a regular basis. I hunt with a number of folks that use the same box of 20 rounds, hunting for several years.

You just need to quantify what you are looking for. What does “more” mean in reguards to money and time? To some, even that is too time consuming...

 

[snuffy]

So, I've been looking at buying hardball casting lead ingots for making my own projectiles, and it looks like this is a financially losing proposition. At the cost of lead online, before any shipping charges, it works out to about 86¢ per projectile, based on 240 grn projectiles. ($25 per 6 lb ingot) I can buy pre made and lubed cast bullets for about 15¢ per projectile. (Hunter's Supply.)

According to your figures for lead cost, my calculations figure cost to 14.4 cents per bullet. (Not figuring molds, electricity, pots, my time, {{I'm retired my time is always free}} or the tiny amount of powder coat per bullet. If you want to pay yourself $20.00/ hour, please feel free.

My cost for 9mm handgun, 124 grainers is about 2.5 cents. Total round cost is 5.5 cents.

I got a half ton of range lead free for the cleaning from my clubs indoor range. Only cost was gas for 4 vehicles on a 25 mile trip, and 6 20 pound propane tanks to remelt the lead. Another haul of 800 pounds of pure lead from a salvaged drill press counterweight at work. Again, free for the hauling. Talk to people, tell them you want to make lead fishing weights/sinkers. You'd be surprised how many leads you'll get over a couple of years time.

Seeing valuable boolits fall from my molds is like seeing dimes, quarters and in some cases half dollars land on the cooling mat. If you don't want the hassle/work, then keep paying for them AND having to accept what they,(the bullet company), wants to sell you. Your own will be what weight you want, nose shape, size hardness, and lube type/color.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

According to your figures for lead cost, my calculations figure cost to 14.4 cents per bullet. (Not figuring molds, electricity, pots, my time, {{I'm retired my time is always free}} or the tiny amount of powder coat per bullet. If you want to pay yourself $20.00/ hour, please feel free.

My cost for 9mm handgun, 124 grainers is about 2.5 cents. Total round cost is 5.5 cents.

I got a half ton of range lead free for the cleaning from my clubs indoor range. Only cost was gas for 4 vehicles on a 25 mile trip, and 6 20 pound propane tanks to remelt the lead. Another haul of 800 pounds of pure lead from a salvaged drill press counterweight at work. Again, free for the hauling. Talk to people, tell them you want to make lead fishing weights/sinkers. You'd be surprised how many leads you'll get over a couple of years time.

Seeing valuable boolits fall from my molds is like seeing dimes, quarters and in some cases half dollars land on the cooling mat. If you don't want the hassle/work, then keep paying for them AND having to accept what they,(the bullet company), wants to sell you. Your own will be what weight you want, nose shape, size hardness, and lube type/color.

Well, to begin, I quoted a price for lead without taking into account shipping costs, but whatever.

Time is ALWAYS valuable, no matter who you are, no matter what your employment status. There is an opportunity cost to everything you do. There is ALWAYS something else you can be doing - that next best thing. No matter what I'm doing, my time is valuable to me. It's more valuable to me than digging in the dirt at the end of a gun range for old lead. I'm not going to do it, so stop suggesting it. It's just a poor use of the time I have left in this world. I'm either going to purchase lead or I'm not. Simple. Done.

 

[jmorris]

Time is ALWAYS valuable, no matter who you are, no matter what your employment status.

You said a mouthful right there. Time is the only thing I asked for for Christmas and I wasn’t surprised not to get any of it. I’ll admit to sneaking out to the shop before and finding something to do before my wife sees me idle and finds something for me to do...,

In any case if your time is valuable to you just buy loaded ammo, shoot, pack up and leave. Someone will come up behind you and pick up your brass and lead, you won’t be alone either. There are more folks that do just that, than not.

 

[RealGun]

You said a mouthful right there. Time is the only thing I asked for for Christmas and I wasn’t surprised not to get any of it. I’ll admit to sneaking out to the shop before and finding something to do before my wife sees me idle and finds something for me to do...,

In any case if your time is valuable to you just buy loaded ammo, shoot, pack up and leave. Someone will come up behind you and pick up your brass and lead, you won’t be alone either. There are more folks that do just that, than not.

Those shooting reloads are able to stay longer.

 

[jmorris]

Or they leave more money behind for their kids to blow on factory ammo...

 

[D.B. Cooper]

You said a mouthful right there.

Well, my last comment was probably a little harsh. It's frustrating because I thought I had made it clear that I wasn't interested in spending time searching for scrap lead.

In any case if your time is valuable to you just buy loaded ammo, shoot, pack up and leave. Someone will come up behind you and pick up your brass and lead, you won’t be alone either. There are more folks that do just that, than not.

Reloading using store bought cast lead projectiles, I find I'm saving 40¢ per round, or a 66% reduction in cost. Over the next 6 weeks, I'll save enough money to cover the entire cost of the reloading equipment I bought. All for about 6 hours worth of my time. I find that to be an acceptable trade-off. Admittedly, I don't find the task of reloading ammo in my garage nearly as distasteful as that of digging in the dirt at the range.

It's not unlike the idea that there are some jobs some people won't do, no matter how much it pays. (And that job is different for everyone. For example, I teach high school, but many folks wouldn't do it for a million dollars. I wouldn't be a police officer for a million dollars, but I know people who love the job...etc. etc.)

 

[hdbiker]

I pick my cast bullet lead from the pistol berms at my gun club on closed hours or holidays. I can pick a 5 quart pail in about 45 minutes, and after smelting it yields 23-25 pounds of ingots. I try to mix 50x50 with wheel weights, add a foot of 95/5 solder for tin in a 10 pound melt. This mix works great for 230 grain .45 acp and 158 grain .38 loads at medium velocities. I tumble lube with Lee Alox and get very little or no leading. I have about 300 pounds of Lyman mold ingots ready to cast with. hdbiker

 

[edwardware]

I can pick a 5 quart pail in about 45 minutes, and after smelting it yields 23-25 pounds. . .

Find a large electric motor end cap to use as a colander to sift bullets from the dirt, and you'll be filling a 5 gallon bucket in the same 45 minutes.